Comments (48)

May 4, 2022 - 9:21am
T30Alumnus, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Why are you asking? Dual degrees are stupid to get. The MBA is way more competitive than the JD and HKS, not even close 

May 4, 2022 - 11:54am
T30Alumnus, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Love the MS. You do realize you can go to northwest New Mexico State, get a 4.2 in gender studies, lock in a 178 lsat because you didn't have to study since your school is a joke, work as a waiter for two years, and go to HLS no problem? And that HLS is sort of a joke in the T14 because it's so massive with quality control issues disproportionate to the Harvard name? To go to HBS you actually need real work experience and undergrad credentials. You can't be some hick or ghetto scholarship kid who can't get through entry level job interviews lol
 

- former corporate lawyer 

May 4, 2022 - 3:13pm
T30Alumnus, what's your opinion? Comment below:
lemickey

You (worthless t-30 grad) telling people to not go to HLS is like a Baruch alum telling everyone not to go into business because he couldn't get an IB job and got stuck in compliance.

I know you're jaded about not getting into big law but you gotta let it go my man.

I was in big law for a long time. At a firm and department better then a median HLS grad. I also went when there was more of a career path and compensation relative to finance. 

May 4, 2022 - 3:03pm
Isaiah_53_5 💎🙌💎🙌💎, what's your opinion? Comment below:
Intern in IB-M&A

Is the JD/MBA or the HBS/HKS dual degree harder to get into than the pure MBA?                       

As far as I know you have to apply to HLS / HBS separately.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

  • 1
May 4, 2022 - 3:15pm
T30Alumnus, what's your opinion? Comment below:
Isaiah_53_5 💎🙌💎🙌💎
Intern in IB-M&A

Is the JD/MBA or the HBS/HKS dual degree harder to get into than the pure MBA?                       

As far as I know you have to apply to HLS / HBS separately.

Correct. Applicants qualified for HBS know the dual degree is a negative in recruiting. Law firms do not want any candidates with business side exit ops and the JD damages the perception of a candidate's commercial acumen. He'll be explaining in interviews why he did both and the dual degree is tailored to very few jobs. 

  • Associate 1 in PE - Growth
May 4, 2022 - 11:42pm

This isn't right. Maybe from a lower ranked institution, but you are out of your mind if you don't think most peoples reaction isn't, "holy shit, this individual handled and has contacts at two of the highest ranked professional schools?" 
 

Again, whether it's worth the cost is a whole different conversation, but it's factually wrong to say your recruiting outcomes are hurt by having a jd/mba compared to just one of the degrees. The personal opportunity cost may or may not be there, but no one views the degree as someone who was conflicted, they view it as someone who bizarrely had the ability and willingness to do both.

  • Associate 1 in PE - Growth
May 4, 2022 - 11:38pm

It is absolutely ridiculous to say it is harder to get into HBS than HLS. Normally your points on law school being a waste, it not being a great path to earnings, the work sucking, etc are all on base, but you are out of your mind to argue this lol. From a test score/ gpa basis and from a knowing personal individuals and their intelligence, HLS students are a completely different caliber than HBS. Sure, HBS students are older and have more years of work experience, but they are just dumber and way shittier students on average. They make more and are more confident and likely politically are less of a nut job in part because they are older, but come on-you really are going to sit there and act like most HLS students are gender studies majors who fell into a 175 Lsat? Give me a break. For every person who gamed their gpa and waitered for a year to study for the Lsat, there is some clown who secured an offer in IB by networking unusually early and knowing the right people and falling upward in PE due to name brand. On just a skillset basis-I'm pretty confident I could prep the average university student for pe interviews than to take the LSAT and get a 174+.

Most Helpful
May 5, 2022 - 8:48am
T30Alumnus, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Most people at HLS could not hack a gmat score to get into HBS, they do not have the math skills or ability to acquire them. They could not do basic financial modeling on excel and never could. The undergrad institutions represented at HLS are far less prestigious than HBS. To get to HBS you probably went to a decent undergrad and got through the hurdle of respectable employment. This cannot be said of most HLS students. Tulane is probably above average for an entering HLS class now. 
 
You are confusing verbal dexterity with intelligence. You can get a 4.0 in college with no spatial or mathematical thinking, you cannot go to HBS so crippled. You can't be in IB or corporate life like that. You would be shocked how an HLS student cannot understand a balance sheet and never will. 
 

You are way way way overestimating HLS students. Lol all they do is read for three years after two years of lsat studying (which is grammar and basic logic and is more learnable than any other standardized test………)

May 5, 2022 - 4:30pm
Isaiah_53_5 💎🙌💎🙌💎, what's your opinion? Comment below:
T30Alumnus

Lol all they do is read for three years after two years of lsat studying (which is grammar and basic logic and is more learnable than any other standardized test………)

I've studied for a lot of tests including the CFA, LSAT, GMAT, GRE, MCAT and found the LSAT the most 'fun' to study. The worst exam to study for was the MCAT. I think some medical people are just geniuses and they 'get' the MCAT.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

May 5, 2022 - 9:08am
T30Alumnus, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Thought of a great idea since you're so confident in the innate abilities of HLS students! How about you become senior enough at your PE firm to then have a say in HR and recruitment? You see, there are armies of big law associates desperate to do anything else that doesn't involve a 50% paycut and they get dinged at every finance and corporate development role they send a resume for. PE would make their eyes light up, and since they're all super duper trainable and smarter than HBS you can have these 28-34 year old new hires with an advanced degree and years of legal practice under their belt. Teaching them modeling won't be a big deal at all next to analogy questions on the lsat!

May 5, 2022 - 1:53pm
anothergodammasian, what's your opinion? Comment below:

What's your opinion on international students getting into top Law schools and then trying to recruit for IB?Back in the day a lot of people who attended law school were hired by IBs, is it very different now?

May 5, 2022 - 4:26pm
Isaiah_53_5 💎🙌💎🙌💎, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Ok

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

May 5, 2022 - 4:29pm
T30Alumnus, what's your opinion? Comment below:

A 175+ lsat just isn't that difficult to get and that's all it takes so long as you weren't a dud in college classes. 

  • Associate 1 in PE - Growth
May 5, 2022 - 5:28pm

How about you compare the same years chief:

7% for HLS 

Roughly 9% for HBS

That said, I think yield/ acceptance rate is actually a bad comparison. There are more less talented people that choose to do business than untalented people that choose to do law. Every clown fratstar dies into business, many people self select out of law school (although again, that might be a smart decision). Basically every lawyer tries to get into HLS and not every business person tries to go to hbs. Heck, generally the most successful individuals in business never even go to b school. 
 

I think the larger point I am making is while I agree being a lawyer is a path that leads to less interesting work, lower earnings, and more debt, those that do a jd/ mba program aren't hurt by the degree. T30 seems to think so and I'll chalk that up to his insecurity given the fact that he is clearly so bitter about his law experience. Is it a waste of time to his point-potentially. But when evaluating recruitment outcomes I think ultimately it's a hard question to answer because there is some pretty crazy self selection that happens-those that pursue a JD/MBA are usually very unique and have interest and discipline to study both business and the law and are able to do both, which is abnormal. They also likely come from money because the cost of the degree is pretty outrageous. From the individuals I know, (one very closely at one of the top programs) they have all said it was the opposite experience to what t30 said. Instead they described it as an auto interview and preferential treatment at almost everywhere they interviewed. I think the scholarship at K&E really provides a great example of my point-they wouldn't have a whole scholarship and one page dedicated to recruiting jd/MBA's if they didn't like them or were trying to not hire them. I don't doubt that t30 has a negative view of jd/MBA's and that some individuals/firms might agree with his skewed view, but to say that's a collective belief in the field I think is a big jump. 

  • Analyst 3+ in IB - Cov
May 5, 2022 - 2:13pm

I disagree with like 90% of the comments ITT.  Overwhelmingly the JD/MBA people from b school were noticeably more intelligent and put together than the pure business school people (not sure what T30 is talking about).  Also, knowing two of them decently well, neither had any issues getting jobs and both went to name brand big law firms now.  M7 business school with a T10 law school if it matters.  I'm not an analyst I need to change that

The actual question in the OP has been answered though - you apply to all of these schools separately.  HKS is probably the easiest to get into of the three, but look at admissions stats to figure it out.

May 5, 2022 - 2:20pm
T30Alumnus, what's your opinion? Comment below:

I disagree with like 90% of the comments ITT.  Overwhelmingly the JD/MBA people from b school were noticeably more intelligent and put together than the pure business school people (not sure what T30 is talking about).  Also, knowing two of them decently well, neither had any issues getting jobs and both went to name brand big law firms now.  M7 business school with a T10 law school if it matters.  I'm not an analyst I need to change that

The actual question in the OP has been answered though - you apply to all of these schools separately.  HKS is probably the easiest to get into of the three, but look at admissions stats to figure it out.

1. "Noticeably more intelligent"

2. "Both went to name brand [sic] big law firms"

These two sentences contradict each other. If they were intelligent they'd have gone into finance, consulting, or corporate development and not law. Instead they saw a close to 200k salary and couldn't think four years ahead. Hope they like sucking their mba classmates' D as they "turn over" useless legal docs all night 

  • Analyst 3+ in IB - Cov
May 5, 2022 - 3:45pm

I get what you're saying and agree that there are way more options outside of law but these two dudes are going to be just fine.  It sounds like you worked in big law and hated it - no judgment there I'm sure it sucks.  One of my close family members has been a lawyer for 20+ years though and genuinely loves it - different strokes.

May 5, 2022 - 3:48pm
Purple9988, what's your opinion? Comment below:

HKS is a lot easier to get into than the MBA but places a similar percent of the class into MBB. If you are interested in consulting, HKS is a great way to get looked at by MBB if you are not able to go M7 MBA

Dual degrees are very targeted in their utility, so I would caution (Jesus Christ the word caution is such a pain to spell, can't sound it out. God I hate English) against getting it just to collect degrees.

May 5, 2022 - 3:54pm
T30Alumnus, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Dual degrees are limited, agreed. I still wouldn't recommend HKS over say Tuck. You'll have a worse network and are less likely to acquire tangible skills (business school offers them if you want, or you can party for two years). 

May 6, 2022 - 9:28am
guyfromct, what's your opinion? Comment below:

I wouldn't do a dual degree except HKS and only then if you wanted to do pub fin, government or government related business (defense contractor, public sector consulting). Everyone I know who was JD/MBA is firmly on one side or the other, either in business or law. Also you're not going to learn to be a lawyer in law school, you'll learn to "think like one", which is honestly damaging for businesses. Lawyers always think in terms of downside risk.

Also the practice of law sucks, the big law lawyers I interact with have the world's most boring job turning a bond transaction into legal documents, I would hate to be drafting the millionth boilerplate document at 2:00 AM. It's necessary work for sure, but it's not the fun part of a transaction. And that assumes big law, also most people don't make partner and wind up going in house making somewhere between a senior analyst and an associate assuming MCOL or HCOL locations (200-350) and that's after several years as a big law associate.

May 6, 2022 - 10:36am
T30Alumnus, what's your opinion? Comment below:
guyfromct

I wouldn't do a dual degree except HKS and only then if you wanted to do pub fin, government or government related business (defense contractor, public sector consulting). Everyone I know who was JD/MBA is firmly on one side or the other, either in business or law. Also you're not going to learn to be a lawyer in law school, you'll learn to "think like one", which is honestly damaging for businesses. Lawyers always think in terms of downside risk.

Also the practice of law sucks, the big law lawyers I interact with have the world's most boring job turning a bond transaction into legal documents, I would hate to be drafting the millionth boilerplate document at 2:00 AM. It's necessary work for sure, but it's not the fun part of a transaction. And that assumes big law, also most people don't make partner and wind up going in house making somewhere between a senior analyst and an associate assuming MCOL or HCOL locations (200-350) and that's after several years as a big law associate.

All correct, although idk how anyone with a Harvard mba would go into pub finance, it's not necessary.  
 

Agreed on the "thinking like a lawyer" part, you don't want to think like a lawyer unless you're a………lawyer. Hence why many companies and recruiters do not like the JD for business side roles. 

May 24, 2022 - 11:44am
RayBanWarrior, what's your opinion? Comment below:

HKS is a joke.

Although perhaps HBS would be more likely to admit you if you were on the cusp and they knew they could get the university an extra $100k+ from admitting you into a dual degree program.But HKS is still known as "Harvard for everyone."

As far as dual degrees go, it's not super respected.As for HLS and a potential JD/MBA, it's respected as both programs are difficult to gain admission into, but makes no sense. It will give you no leg up in recruiting for any job (law or business), and as Harvard does not have integrated programs, it'll not only cost more $$$ but more importantly, take substantially more time - 4 years in total.

Basically amounts to a prestige circlejerk that makes no sense even if it's fully funded. I would avoid dual degree programs unless they're fully funded and fully integrated (i.e., no extra time and no extra money). Even then, it's more work, so would want to be certain there's some benefit post grad.

May 24, 2022 - 3:52pm
T30Alumnus, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Integration of programs isn't necessarily better. You lose a summer of recruitment and networking which could help in whichever path you take. Summer classes as a 26-28 year old isn't all that fun 

May 24, 2022 - 12:54pm
poignant, what's your opinion? Comment below:

To get into a dual degree program you have to be accepted individually into each separate school first. HKS is very cliquey and very small. Yes it's harder to get into two Harvard schools then just one.

May 24, 2022 - 2:53pm
trustmeimanengineer, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Widely known HLS is a joke compared to Yale or other T10 law schools. It's class is HUGE. HBS is harder to get into. GMAT is harder than LSAT in the top range. Law school is 95% LSAT + GPA while those just get you an interview at HBS. I've researched both extensively but chose to pursue a PhD in Engineering instead.

May 24, 2022 - 3:53pm
T30Alumnus, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Amet ab ea aliquam ut id ut. Accusamus quisquam necessitatibus quaerat eius. Nesciunt tempore corporis quae ut officia.

Est occaecati velit explicabo. Aperiam numquam et veritatis corporis. Eligendi et quos exercitationem et. Voluptas similique eligendi ad placeat nam et voluptatem. Eveniet dolore vel quibusdam nihil consequatur. Vel impedit doloribus maiores dolor. Eos vel alias adipisci recusandae voluptatum.

Aut quia veniam ut aliquam hic quia. Temporibus reiciendis sapiente molestiae provident. Labore aspernatur nesciunt blanditiis sit. Harum dolores quos odit soluta. Provident deserunt eius et accusantium est aperiam.

May 24, 2022 - 3:56pm
trustmeimanengineer, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Qui sint quod quae veniam aspernatur soluta hic. Pariatur sequi ad nesciunt quia. Repudiandae in nisi dolores qui delectus aliquam et. Quis qui enim hic id. Non impedit facere voluptatem dolore aut unde velit. Accusantium tenetur nesciunt ipsa sunt maiores. Itaque quia vel dolores voluptatem quis et blanditiis numquam.

Dolor in possimus accusamus tempore. Modi natus earum quod necessitatibus autem. Molestiae nesciunt placeat rerum aut.

Et libero qui voluptatem autem aliquam aperiam nihil. Et illum quos distinctio at laboriosam ea. Quod saepe iure sit ut odit cum. Atque aspernatur reprehenderit vel sed eaque eum. Voluptatem quaerat dolores ex voluptas dignissimos optio aperiam.

Voluptas autem impedit iusto quibusdam in atque architecto. Cum quia eos quasi. Provident saepe deleniti aut adipisci. Nesciunt qui fugiat incidunt molestias ut maiores.

Start Discussion

Career Advancement Opportunities

June 2022 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company (▲03) 99.6%
  • Lincoln International (= =) 99.2%
  • RBC Capital Markets (▲07) 98.8%
  • Bank of America Merrill Lynch (▲01) 98.4%
  • Houlihan Lokey (▲06) 98.0%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

June 2022 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company (▲12) 99.6%
  • Lincoln International (▲05) 99.2%
  • Greenhill (▲07) 98.8%
  • Rothschild (= =) 98.3%
  • Evercore (= =) 97.9%

Professional Growth Opportunities

June 2022 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company (▲04) 99.6%
  • Lincoln International (▲04) 99.2%
  • RBC Capital Markets (▲09) 98.8%
  • Houlihan Lokey (▲07) 98.4%
  • Bank of America Merrill Lynch (▲04) 98.0%

Total Avg Compensation

June 2022 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (9) $661
  • Vice President (37) $394
  • Associates (189) $246
  • 2nd Year Analyst (115) $162
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (17) $156
  • 1st Year Analyst (364) $149
  • Intern/Summer Associate (76) $148
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (287) $91