Harvard vs Oxford (Undergrad) Would love to hear your advice!
I was accepted by both the University of Oxford and Harvard University (Restrictive Early-Action) recently. And I would love to hear your advice on which institution to choose from.
Tuition:
* Harvard costs $65,000 a year + four years = $260,000 (No Financial Aid)
* Oxford costs $50,000 a year + three years = $150,000
Winner = Oxford (Parents' income above financial aid status but below $300k)
Academics:
* Harvard requires you to take core course classes that I have no interest in + constant assessments. The benefit is I get a well-rounded education and can switch majors if I somehow switch career interests out of banking/politics. Far less intense and massive grade inflation.
* Oxford only lets you sign up and attend for the course you applied for. In this case it would be Philosophy, Politics, and Economics. For three years I would be only study these three courses which honestly seems like a dream. When I study these subjects in HS and at home it feels likes fun, not work. You interact with tutors/professors with one other student for three hours a week. You write two 5,000 word essays a week and are only 'assessed' at the end of each term. The only essays / assessment that matters is at the end of the third year and you choose the subject topics in your corse to be assessed on. But hard to get a First Class Honors.
Winner = Slight edge to Oxford
Lifestyle:
* Harvard has far better facilities and I would feel slightly more comfortable living in my country. More student spirit and emphasis on extracurriculars. Being an Indian-American in Cambridge, Mass is pretty normal and won't be ostracized from social events.
* Oxford revolves around the college you were accepted into (Trinity) and far less importance put on extracurriculars and outside interests. Although you could argue that it would make it easier to become a leader of various clubs. The main pro is that for three years of my life I have the extremely rare opportunity of living abroad and gaining fantastic experiences with people around the globe. Drinking is legal at 18. :)
Winner = Tie
I-Banking and PRESTIGE:
* From what I have gathered they are both equivalents in terms of I-Banking placement in their respective countries. And not getting a U.S I-Banking position from Oxford (info from other posts on WSO) would be purely my fault and not Oxford's reputation.
* Harvard is obviously #1 in American and possibly the world. But from what I have gathered from friends and family Oxford is an equivalent institution with HYPSM.
Winner = Tie?
As most people who are on WSO attended top tier schools, would you put Oxford's reputation/prestige on par with Harvard? And which institution would you choose and why?
If this were me, it would depend heavily upon where I want to live. If you want to live and work in the US, then Harvard is a no-brainer. If you want to work and live in the UK, then Oxford is probably a no-brainer.
Although, I'm sure the Harvard name will carry more weight the Oxford does. In fact, you'll probably still get a lot of interest from people in the UK, if you decide to make a change in the future.
Anything other than LBS would be a no-go for me in the UK (why? Visa issues and job placements). So, Harvard.
...I am a future undergraduate freshman, I am pretty sure LBS is a graduate business institution.
Yes it is but that's the only institute I'd vouch for. All my harvard (undergrad) buddies are at McKinsey right now
Are you actually serious?
no man...just kittens
Why so? Does LBS receive any special treatment when it comes to Visa for non-EU citizens?
Yes. Recruiting is also pretty strong
Oxford will give you plenty of opportunities, so if that's what you want, go to Oxford. I think the resources at Harvard would be vastly superior, though, and I think the variety of subjects studied at Harvard would give you intellectual breadth that would benefit you throughout your life.
I did turn down Harvard, for what it's worth.
I never understood what people meant by resources. If you mind me asking, is there a huge difference as an undergraduate student and the amount of resources available? Especially for a non-research course load..
Resources = $$$. Having access to more resources does have an impact on academics (better and newer classroom, faster access to newer technology, newer and better equipped labs, more teaching support, etc), but it also has an huge impact on your experience at a school due to better facilities (library, dorms, sports, hospital, etc), better support (OCR, counseling, etc) and access to alumni. Don't get me wrong, Oxford is an unbelievable school with a a beautiful campus and rich history, and being in the OP's shoes, I would seriously consider going there, but in terms of resources, it's just not on the same level with Harvard (or any top US schools)
Regarding resources, IMO our colleges (and their mini-campuses) are better looking than any of Harvard's campus buildings. They look like larger, more luxurious villas and/or 16th-18th century country estates, which some of them in fact are. They're also removed from the city or otherwise don't let the public in. We have something like 20 of them, and they almost all have their own quite nice sports fields, amenities, and facilities.
Just out of curiosity, where did you go instead?
I'm doing an MSc at Oxford and from the US. If I were you and cost was the biggest factor, I'd choose Oxford; if not, you should go to Harvard.
A lot of misinformation in here.
Resources won't make much of a difference for a degree in PPE or equivalent at Harvard. This is undergrad, the content has been espoused for the past 50 years with little change.
Socially they are totally different worlds. In short, you will never attend as many black tie events as you would at Oxford.
Your college can really make or break your experience at Oxford. Also, contrary to popular belief you can change your course. It's not easy and must be done early on, but is done by a couple students at each college.
Either University will open any door you can put yourself in front of.
PPE is Ox's crown jewel undergrad degree.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Oxford_people_with_PPE_degrees
Employment: Do you want to work in Europe or the US?
Social: I haven't been to Cambridge, MA but I like going out in Oxford .... some people hate it. Hour train to London. he Bridge freshers haaaaaaa
Since you have visited Oxford, how was the overall social atmosphere of the school?
Decent enough. Very college, dept & circle dependant (heard of Bullingdon? and the pigs head scandal? :P) hard working in general ...
fwiw turned Ox down to be in London so I'm not a fanboy of the school but PPE is a solid degree and most I know there enjoy it. Town is medium sized with two Universities so it certainly feels like a uni town. I like going out there... few good pubs on the river, couple livelier places, gender balance always did me Ok.
You're in good company either way but I would choose Harvard based on the breadth of education and the alumni. Core courses expand your thinking and your focus, and that type of learning becomes very useful in other applications.
You have to write 10,000 words/50 pages (double spaced) per week at Oxford? Seems intense, can anyone confirm?
Two 2,500 word essays a week + studying the associated reading.
I think you need to make this decision on qualitative factors.
Both institutions have fantastic pedigree along with excellent academic opportunities and alumni networks. The world will be your oyster at either school.
However, what Oxford does offer is a much greater cultural experience if you desire it. You'll be able to travel all over Europe in your spare time, be surrounded by people speaking many different languages from a broader range of countries and a corresponding variety of perspectives. There is certainly an intangible element that living in a foreign country will add to your CV as well.
In short, Harvard is the "safe" option here; Oxford will offer you greater opportunity to expand your perspective of the world. Of course, that's just my opinion.
Clearly you want to go to Oxfurd and are looking for the folks at WSO to tell you it's perfectly fine to turn down the obvious choice
Ain't gonna happen pal
I think you may have misinterpreted my post, but this decision will dictate my next 3-4 years and a decent portion of my 20s. And between these two universities, there is no clear winner in lifestyle, reputation, and academics. I am simply trying to get the best information possible to make the biggest decision of my young life.
Hahaha good stuff
This is almost like a British Brady
As many have said its all about location. I would argue Harvard has an edge in overall prestige. That being said PPE at oxford is the most prestigious and bad ass course in the world. You can legit do anything after and being interested in politics it can be a real kickstart.
I would let the gut decide! I would try to not factor in the 100k price difference as getting 1 year more of education and student life is worth something also ;)
The fact you posted this on a finance board is a joke. If you cant get your dream career out of those two schools than YOU are at fault. Both schools provide amazing opportunities around the globe, so stop asking for opinions and pick the school that YOU like better and will ENJOY more. I would pick Oxford, but you shouldn't care what school I'd pick.
Something that you should also consider are the grading differences between Harvard and Oxford. Harvard is known for grade inflation, while the opposite is true at Oxford. You will have to work harder for "good" grades at Oxford, if such a thing exists, here; in graduate courses, those are distinctions (> 70%) and awarded infrequently.
I believe the majority of students receive a 2.1 and 15% of PPE students obtain a First Class Honors. Is it known by American grad schools (HBS,GSB, Wharton, Booth) that Oxford's undergraduate curriculum is far more intensive?
I've only spoken by phone with admissions offices at HBS, GSB, and Booth regarding non-grading-related issues. I did, however, speak to the Director of Wharton's Healthcare-tract by phone as well, but did not ask about grading.
My opinion is that if you earn a distinction you'll be able to go wherever you want to go to business school. If you earn a 2.1 you will most likely be academically evaluated by your letters of reference. For reference, a 2.1 corresponds to a ~ 3.3-3.7 in the US. Letter of reference writers will often indicate their perception of your academic abilities in comparison to a reference group (e.g. students in your class, those with your career goals they've trained/interacted with); in fact, on Oxford's letter of recommendation submission portal they have check boxes asking for an indication of exactly that (e.g. check a box indicating that the student is in the top 1%, 5%, 15%, 25%, 50% as compared to reference group X) from your referee. If you earn less than a 2.1, you'll probably be competitive at non-M7 business schools if you have decent work experience and didn't major in something unrelated (e.g. music, arts, humanities). I don't believe you've said what your major is, here; is it PPE or something else?
That aside, google "grade inflation harvard" and you'll see that there are actually well publicized cases and statistics supporting professor's assignment of easy A's at Harvard, Stanford, and several other liberal arts colleges. After reading those articles, you'll see that Harvard students are mostly earning ~ 3.7+ GPAs whilst similar caliber students elsewhere are earning ~ 3.3 GPAs, or less.
This is just a question of finances and geography, 260k vs 150k is not a small amount of money.
WHere do you want to live and what kind of experience do you want?
If you want to work in US long-term then I'd take Harvard.
I'm biased -- will say that from the start. Look, you said it yourself: studying PPE for three years seems like a dream. If you're happy with your course of study, you'll do well. If you do well, all doors will open. And maybe -- MAYBE -- you'll find that you love PPE and want to instead become an academic. Shitty money, terrible academic infighting, but if your work makes you happy, you'll be much happier overall. Harvard gives you optionality. But as someone above mentioned, PPE hardly closes off your options. And Trinity is a great college, with a great kitchen (at one point with a Michelin star!) and wine cellar. Stick around the extra year for the master's degree. Join the Oxford Union, and Bullingdon if they'll have you. Try your hand at Fives and Real Tennis and rowing on the Isis. Good luck, and let us know what you decide!
Thanks for all the info! Since I did my interview over skype, I will be visiting Oxford over spring break to be sure. But I am 90% sure I will be attending Oxford after I recent conversations with alumni who studied there, this discussion, and the PPE curriculum. Thanks for all your input! :)
Cost and time is an important factor here. WSO is going to tell you to take out $260K in debt for Harvard, but I am not sure it is worth $110K in tuition and another $100-$150K in lost earnings if you land at an investment bank.
This is a good point and I do agree on the whole.
The only thing I struggle with is, that as a UK Citizen, $150k tuition would cost me $45k as a non-overseas student. It would have cost me $15k in total prior to the 2011 tuition fee increases. I know that price isn't an option for this guy but it doesn't strike me as particularly good value. At least a Harvard education is roughly $260k wherever you are from in the world..
Aut officiis sed quas cum beatae dolores error. Voluptatum dolorem maiores sint rerum.
Laudantium labore natus repellat alias molestiae laudantium. Exercitationem voluptatum dolorem maiores ea autem eum repellendus. Sunt ab doloremque commodi omnis ratione aperiam aut. Modi ut numquam accusamus iure est voluptatem.
Dolorum dolorem nulla explicabo rerum aliquid libero maiores voluptates. Ut molestias repudiandae suscipit fugit. Natus quaerat voluptatibus necessitatibus quisquam voluptatum quasi dolor.
Voluptatem beatae ipsam omnis laboriosam. Quasi quod sit culpa beatae mollitia ea itaque. Aperiam quo temporibus qui est vitae voluptas.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Esse voluptas voluptas tenetur consequatur quia magnam. Quidem perspiciatis occaecati aut quas. Sit aut nesciunt autem voluptas velit nesciunt facere voluptatem. Officiis qui rerum possimus qui. Voluptas nobis quasi cupiditate repellat quibusdam quam.
Sapiente aut cumque quo nulla dolor. Modi ratione sapiente ut accusantium quia laborum dolor cupiditate. Ea at autem corrupti eius quidem. Quo quia perferendis assumenda.
Qui ut dolores odit est sapiente ducimus nemo. Ea et sequi rerum est non mollitia quos. Illum sint ut illum libero officia omnis. Et consectetur officiis rem blanditiis sapiente soluta.
Necessitatibus dicta non vitae aut eius. Eos rerum incidunt id tenetur dignissimos cumque. A cupiditate quas natus consectetur et. Quis ea commodi quisquam ipsum aspernatur asperiores. Quis odio ut alias cupiditate.