So you're essentially saying you and a bunch of other people got caught cheating and you're wondering how bad this looks on your application. It certainly isn't going to help.
Does it show anywhere on you're transcript or anywhere else in your application?
If I remember, there was often sections in the applications that give you the opportunity to explain any poor grades or gaps in work blah blah blah. If the F is on you're transcript i would use that space to explain it, otherwise it's essentially waving a red flag with no rationale. Better off owning up to the mistake and saying you've learned from it. If the F doesn't show up, then I wouldn't mention it.
Yes it shows up on my transcript. However my overall GPA was not affected as the A replaced it. Can I just write someting like I missed the midterm and professor did not let me retake? Anything sounds better than we got caught cheating.
How deeply do they dive into transcripts. Does Adcom really have time to read line by line everyone's official transcript? I feel like they would look at cumulative GPA, GMAT, look at resume, and skim through the essays and recommendations to make sure it's adequate.
What do you think about alternate transcripts. Do they offer that much more help?
You could probably lie and they wouldn't find out, but that's a huge risk and extremely dishonest. I wouldn't recommend that. I don't imagine that they dive really deep into your transcript, especially if you're GPA is still really high. So you're alternative is to say nothing and hope they don't find it, or own up and hope they forgive.
If graham2829 is right and they have fraud/cheating questions then you should definitely own up to it. If you get it caught after the fact they can expel you or revoke your degree if you already graduated (just check out Mathew Martoma at Stanford).
I think the apps I did had specific questions addressing academic fraud. Something along the lines of were you ever disciplined for cheating/dishonesty.
If graham2829 is right and they have fraud/cheating questions then you should definitely own up to it. If you get it caught after the fact they can expel you or revoke your degree if you already graduated (just check out Mathew Martoma at Stanford).
I disagree. This was not a formal discipline. I'd like to think I played pretty darned honest in undergrad and grad school, but there is a difference between blatant lying or cheating on an exam and cheating on a homework.
If this were UVA or maybe Princeton undergrad, OP would have been officially sanctioned and had to have listed it on his application. A lot of folks on the HBS and Stanford adcom would probably also take it with a grain of salt, since it was a homework assignment at UVA.
graham2829
I think the apps I did had specific questions addressing academic fraud. Something along the lines of were you ever disciplined for cheating/dishonesty.
This is ambiguous and can be swung a lot of ways.
It was off the books, it was a homework assignment, and there was no official discipline or sanction. I'm not sure he has to check yes in order to be materially honest on this.
I'm normally a relative stickler about honest behavior, but this was a homework assignment and with any F on a transcript the MBA application will need to be a good 4-5 years after undergrad. I think that with time, this is forgivable. The F is a relatively harsh punishment IMHO. (For cheating on a HOMEWORK assignment, if I were a prof, I'd just cap the maximum final grade at a B+ and give a 0 for the assignment.)
OP needs to remember academic honesty but otherwise needs to move on and do his best to forget this. Unfortunately for OP, no matter which way you swing this, this essentially guarantees that he will never get into Harvard or Stanford for an MBA.
Let's have some empathy here. At some point during four years of undergrad, everyone has shared answers to a homework where they probably weren't supposed to. Many of us have had TAs who've gotten suspicious of us and sometimes shared those suspicions with us but not the professor. If it was merely a one-time event, for a homework assignment (not an exam) the difference between us and OP was probably luck rather than anything else.
IlliniProgrammer The F is a relatively harsh punishment IMHO. (For cheating on a HOMEWORK assignment, if I were a prof, I'd just cap the maximum final grade at a B+ and give a 0 for the assignment.)
It's worth pointing out, the OP did not receive an F for the homework assignment. He would have gotten a C- but didn't even show for the final. So he failed the class because he didn't even bother trying, not because of the one homework assignment.
Don't mention it and if they ask, just say you had a professor who was very difficult to work with. As long as you don't have some sort of behavioral mark on your transcripts/records, then it wont matter.
The cheating is a bigger problem than the F. I assume that the cheating isn't noted on your resume, at least?
The more years between the application and undergrad, the better.
I would just note that you really struggled in that class the first time around and got an A the second time. (THIS IS TRUE: you were heading for a C).
I would not draw any more attention to it.
I would not mention it in the interview unless asked. And then you will have to really dance around it.
In a perfect world, cheating on an exam would result in an expulsion or multi-semester suspension and cheating on a homework would result in a 0 on that assignment (as well as a review of prior homeworks) and a ban from receiving an A in the course for a first offense. I honestly think that, while both are problematic, in most cases, cheating on a homework is like getting a speeding ticket while cheating on an exam is like getting involved in a high-speed police chase. One is a petty offense while the other is a felony.
I know we are all tempted to get down on OP, and as a CS major, I am also annoyed at all of the people who never did any original work on homework assignments and machine problems and just copied them from others. However, I also know what it's like to try to eke out a B- or a C in a tough course that is just way too much work. I also feel bad for the people who did all of the homework, let people copy their answers as a favor, and got caught at it.
The MBA adcoms don't care about homework vs. exam. Cheating is cheating. There is no gray area in academia. But for those of you who would get down on OP for this, assuming you're not UVA alumns, there's an awfully big gray and even light-gray area when it comes to homework. If you've ever shared an answer with someone on an HW assignment, you could have been caught like OP. Depending on the policy at your school, if you ever looked the other way while others were cheating, you may have been equally as culpable. If OP had been caught on an exam or if this had been a broad characteristic of OP's undergrad experience, I'd have a different view, but I am not going to get down on OP for getting caught and punished for cheating on one homework in one course (given that there was also a final exam and perhaps other exams).
Unfortunately there is nothing you can do about it. The only thing worse than getting an F in a course is getting an F for cheating. The best you can do is just say that you screwed up in this class, you retook it, you did better. I think that story will fly with the adcom and may even discount the effect of the F in your GPA.
For those who may still be annoyed by the cheating, the cheating may have cost OP Harvard/Stanford if he had an otherwise stellar GPA. Given that H/S mostly focuses on young candidates, undergrad GPA matters at these schools, and an F is pretty darned devastating no matter how you swing it. We are just trying to help make sure it doesn't cost OP Booth or Wharton.
My only question- and nobody but the OP will ever know for sure- is how many near-misses the OP had. How many times did a TA or grader send out a message saying that people were clearly sharing answers but weren't supposed to? Or confront OP about it? How often did OP really cheat on his homeworks before he finally got caught?
At the end of the day, if your record/transcripts doesn't say anything about cheating, then this whole conversation is irrelevant. If it does, manipulate your story to the wording on the transcript.
"My first time taking accounting I missed the final for personal reasons which negatively effected my grade. When I retook the course, I received an A which I feel more accurately represents my competency"
Thank you to @OpsDude for not moralizing this question and providing simple and useful advice.
I don't think you need the optional essay to explain a 3.3. That's an adequate b-school GPA, and although it's below average, you'll look a bit strange calling much attention to it (positive or negative). An alternative transcript won't do much for it either. Just do well on the GMAT to answer any small doubts about your aptitude and you'll be fine.
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So you're essentially saying you and a bunch of other people got caught cheating and you're wondering how bad this looks on your application. It certainly isn't going to help.
Does it show anywhere on you're transcript or anywhere else in your application?
If I remember, there was often sections in the applications that give you the opportunity to explain any poor grades or gaps in work blah blah blah. If the F is on you're transcript i would use that space to explain it, otherwise it's essentially waving a red flag with no rationale. Better off owning up to the mistake and saying you've learned from it. If the F doesn't show up, then I wouldn't mention it.
Yes it shows up on my transcript. However my overall GPA was not affected as the A replaced it. Can I just write someting like I missed the midterm and professor did not let me retake? Anything sounds better than we got caught cheating.
How deeply do they dive into transcripts. Does Adcom really have time to read line by line everyone's official transcript? I feel like they would look at cumulative GPA, GMAT, look at resume, and skim through the essays and recommendations to make sure it's adequate.
What do you think about alternate transcripts. Do they offer that much more help?
You could probably lie and they wouldn't find out, but that's a huge risk and extremely dishonest. I wouldn't recommend that. I don't imagine that they dive really deep into your transcript, especially if you're GPA is still really high. So you're alternative is to say nothing and hope they don't find it, or own up and hope they forgive.
If graham2829 is right and they have fraud/cheating questions then you should definitely own up to it. If you get it caught after the fact they can expel you or revoke your degree if you already graduated (just check out Mathew Martoma at Stanford).
I think the apps I did had specific questions addressing academic fraud. Something along the lines of were you ever disciplined for cheating/dishonesty.
If this were UVA or maybe Princeton undergrad, OP would have been officially sanctioned and had to have listed it on his application. A lot of folks on the HBS and Stanford adcom would probably also take it with a grain of salt, since it was a homework assignment at UVA.
This is ambiguous and can be swung a lot of ways.It was off the books, it was a homework assignment, and there was no official discipline or sanction. I'm not sure he has to check yes in order to be materially honest on this.
I'm normally a relative stickler about honest behavior, but this was a homework assignment and with any F on a transcript the MBA application will need to be a good 4-5 years after undergrad. I think that with time, this is forgivable. The F is a relatively harsh punishment IMHO. (For cheating on a HOMEWORK assignment, if I were a prof, I'd just cap the maximum final grade at a B+ and give a 0 for the assignment.)
OP needs to remember academic honesty but otherwise needs to move on and do his best to forget this. Unfortunately for OP, no matter which way you swing this, this essentially guarantees that he will never get into Harvard or Stanford for an MBA.
Let's have some empathy here. At some point during four years of undergrad, everyone has shared answers to a homework where they probably weren't supposed to. Many of us have had TAs who've gotten suspicious of us and sometimes shared those suspicions with us but not the professor. If it was merely a one-time event, for a homework assignment (not an exam) the difference between us and OP was probably luck rather than anything else.
It's worth pointing out, the OP did not receive an F for the homework assignment. He would have gotten a C- but didn't even show for the final. So he failed the class because he didn't even bother trying, not because of the one homework assignment.
Don't mention it and if they ask, just say you had a professor who was very difficult to work with. As long as you don't have some sort of behavioral mark on your transcripts/records, then it wont matter.
The cheating is a bigger problem than the F. I assume that the cheating isn't noted on your resume, at least?
The more years between the application and undergrad, the better.
I would just note that you really struggled in that class the first time around and got an A the second time. (THIS IS TRUE: you were heading for a C).
I would not draw any more attention to it.
I would not mention it in the interview unless asked. And then you will have to really dance around it.
In a perfect world, cheating on an exam would result in an expulsion or multi-semester suspension and cheating on a homework would result in a 0 on that assignment (as well as a review of prior homeworks) and a ban from receiving an A in the course for a first offense. I honestly think that, while both are problematic, in most cases, cheating on a homework is like getting a speeding ticket while cheating on an exam is like getting involved in a high-speed police chase. One is a petty offense while the other is a felony.
I know we are all tempted to get down on OP, and as a CS major, I am also annoyed at all of the people who never did any original work on homework assignments and machine problems and just copied them from others. However, I also know what it's like to try to eke out a B- or a C in a tough course that is just way too much work. I also feel bad for the people who did all of the homework, let people copy their answers as a favor, and got caught at it.
The MBA adcoms don't care about homework vs. exam. Cheating is cheating. There is no gray area in academia. But for those of you who would get down on OP for this, assuming you're not UVA alumns, there's an awfully big gray and even light-gray area when it comes to homework. If you've ever shared an answer with someone on an HW assignment, you could have been caught like OP. Depending on the policy at your school, if you ever looked the other way while others were cheating, you may have been equally as culpable. If OP had been caught on an exam or if this had been a broad characteristic of OP's undergrad experience, I'd have a different view, but I am not going to get down on OP for getting caught and punished for cheating on one homework in one course (given that there was also a final exam and perhaps other exams).
Unfortunately there is nothing you can do about it. The only thing worse than getting an F in a course is getting an F for cheating. The best you can do is just say that you screwed up in this class, you retook it, you did better. I think that story will fly with the adcom and may even discount the effect of the F in your GPA.
For those who may still be annoyed by the cheating, the cheating may have cost OP Harvard/Stanford if he had an otherwise stellar GPA. Given that H/S mostly focuses on young candidates, undergrad GPA matters at these schools, and an F is pretty darned devastating no matter how you swing it. We are just trying to help make sure it doesn't cost OP Booth or Wharton.
My only question- and nobody but the OP will ever know for sure- is how many near-misses the OP had. How many times did a TA or grader send out a message saying that people were clearly sharing answers but weren't supposed to? Or confront OP about it? How often did OP really cheat on his homeworks before he finally got caught?
At the end of the day, if your record/transcripts doesn't say anything about cheating, then this whole conversation is irrelevant. If it does, manipulate your story to the wording on the transcript.
In the optional essay, write:
"My first time taking accounting I missed the final for personal reasons which negatively effected my grade. When I retook the course, I received an A which I feel more accurately represents my competency"
Done.
Thank you to @OpsDude for not moralizing this question and providing simple and useful advice.
I don't think you need the optional essay to explain a 3.3. That's an adequate b-school GPA, and although it's below average, you'll look a bit strange calling much attention to it (positive or negative). An alternative transcript won't do much for it either. Just do well on the GMAT to answer any small doubts about your aptitude and you'll be fine.
Quae eligendi dicta nobis soluta a commodi. Sed facere est ipsam voluptate dolorem. Vel qui cupiditate rerum nobis laboriosam quibusdam.
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