Non-target given up. Really need help on other options.
Hey, so this will be my last post on this forum and I would be grateful if anyone could give me some final advice on alternative options for me, because I'm having a hard time finding anything at the moment.
So I am a final year at a complete non-target, and I made a few posts before about my situation. After a lot of thought, I have decided to give up on IB. I have accepted it is just not going to happen for me and I already messed up getting bad grades in school and ending up at a non-target. I have received endless rejections over the past few years and after a recent rejection not long ago, I have decided there's no point beating a dead horse.
Unfortunately, I have wasted far too much time learning as much as I can about IB, 'high finance', financial modelling (M&A, DCF etc), which will have absolutely no use to me now that I will not be breaking into those fields.
I should note that I had been applying for a range of different roles, not just IB. I quickly found out that I am not even remotely competitive for any 'high finance' roles (MBB consulting, S&T, ER etc). Sometimes I am automatically filtered out by many firms because my school grades weren't high enough. I have even been rejected by the Big 4 for TAS and audit roles.
On a personal level I have been miserable over the past few years and have become really resentful. I have struggled accepting that I am not good enough and the direction my life is heading in. For a period of time I stopped looking at anything relating to finance and avoided coming on this site, because all the success stories made me feel even worse about myself.
This has even started showing in my interviews. Not long ago I had an interview with a small, low-level regional boutique firm that did basic valuation. It was for a full-time position after I would graduate next year and I was recommended for it by someone I networked with who works there. They seemed really excited to have me (they were asking the easiest technical questions and most of the interview was about my hobbies lol), and later on I found out they rejected me. The person who recommended me for the role reached out and asked how I was doing because apparently the interviewers told her I 'seemed depressed and sad'.
When I started my first year, I already understood my chances of getting a good job would be very slim due to my non-target background, but I had no idea that I could potentially end up unemployed. Normally the advice for those who can't get into IB would be middle office roles or Big 4 Valuation. I have also been rejected for these roles. Obviously I am not entitled to anything and I deserve what is happening to me because of a lack of effort in the past.
I have just started my final year of uni and I honestly don't know what's next. I have spoken to careers advisors at school and have explained my situation. They have suggested just applying to entry-level office roles because at this rate I will end up unemployed.
I would really appreciate any help from anyone on what I should do next. I used to be super ambitious and I had a structured plan in the past, but that hasn't worked out since I have been rejected from everywhere. For the first time I am genuinely lost and have no idea what is going to happen next.
Hey, I went back and re-read your earlier posts, and there has been some good advice as well as some generic bullshit like "keep you head up" or "keep trying", but I will try my best to provide a different perspective. First of all, the thing that struck me most is your comment that your contact at the valuation firm told her you "seemed depressed and sad". This is definitely not healthy, but I can't fault you for feeling this way given how much time and effort you've put into your pursuit. However, you need to re-assess your mental approach to your job search if it is truly effecting you to an extent where it is evident to interviewers. I understand how stressful it is when you have not landed an FT offer yet, I was in the same boat as you during my undergrad. It sucks and its demoralizing, especially when you see classmates that you believe are not as smart as you getting offers that you want. But you need to re-contextualize the situation. Yes, it is important that you land a FT offer, but it is not the end of the world if you do not do so right away. Your career is long, if it gets off to a rocky start, you have time to recover it; I would know, I am an Analyst who is older than the associates on my team due to resetting my career twice already!
The first thing to do in order to get your mindset right is stop comparing yourself to others. You cannot control what your classmates do, but you can control what you do. The second thing is to think of the big picture, what you do at the beginning of your career can influence the rest of it, but it does not have to. You have more control than many people on this website would have you believe with their idealized path of IB -> PE -> MBA -> ??? -> Profit. You are not going to get an interview for every position you apply to, but the fact that you are getting some interviews at all is a positive sign, even if it doesn't seem like it is. I highly encourage you to take a deep breath and do something fun this week/weekend and try your best to not think about recruiting. Give yourself a mental reset and allow yourself to feel joy. Next up, before you do any more networking calls or interviews, remind yourself that it is ok to fail. Do not view a networking call or an interview as a do or die. I don't care if this is the only interview/call you have lined up; you will not succeed if you place a burden on yourself. Any time I went in to an interview with that mentality, I failed. You need to accept rejection and not fear it; you only fail if you refuse to learn from your mistakes. I know you have asked for feedback, but no one is going to give you honest feedback after an interview. I suggest a mock interview with a close friend and RECORD it. I did this and it allowed me to identify many mistakes that I did not realize I was making (talking too fast, not being concise, saying too much but not saying anything meaningful) because we have a tendency to get in a zone when interviewing. I also used to be like you and had a structured plan for everything, but then life hit me like a brick wall and realized that's not how the real world works. You need to accept the ambiguity of life and roll with it. I know this is easier said than done, but you need to accept that and work on it.
Lastly, I am glad you are exploring your options and not fixating on IB, but you also need to stop putting IB on a pedestal compared to other jobs. I used to idealize IB and thought it was some superior career and looked down on any other finance job. Guess where that got me? Quitting after a few months on the desk because I hated being on call 24/7. IB is not the end all be all. There are many great paths out there that not a lot of people talk about. Whether it's FP&A, and FLDP, or something else. Keep your options open and realize that you can make a great career anywhere. But you will not succeed until you change your attitude. Do not tie your happiness to your inability to land an offer so far, do not allow your ambition to wither away, accept failure and learn from it, and embrace ambiguity. I have rambled enough and hope that you find this helpful. Feel free to ask more questions, whether it is here for others to see or DM me if you want to keep it private
As a recent grad I really appreciate this comment.
Man you are likely depressed. I’ve been in similar shoes, non-target final year no IB experience. My advice is to channel the sadness into anger. Cold email every boutique IB/PE (LMM) firm you can.
Assuming you have the technical knowledge you will land something. I failed to get into IB as a sophomore and thought my life was over. I went through rough times, life got in the way and nearly ended myself. It wasn’t until Spring of senior year that I decided I’m getting into IB at all costs. I emailed every boutique and failed interviews because I had not studied for years and couldn’t walk from Ebitda to FCF. It took until 2 months after college to land a gig, but it happened and now at a top IB after 2 years.
Chin up, get mad and go grind.
Go into a sales role at a tech firm. They pay decent and love non targets over there
Try corporate banking, you can move to IB later if that is your goal.
people on this website care too much about " target vs non target" I never put any credibility to that. Everyone around me in my family growing up went to a state school and became incredibly successful. Personally I worked back office a year, then did middle office for a year and then IB. You can still get there if you really want to, you have a ton of time. I interviewed with a MD that came over from being a CPA until mid 30s. Tons of paths to succeed
First and foremost, keep your head up, and remember that you will get through this, one way or another. Does it sound cliche and corny? Absolutely. How you react to your objective shitty situation right now will potentially impact your career trajectory for years to come.
I went to an extreme non-target, a school you may not have heard of. You are landing interviews and getting your foot in the door, which means it isnt your non-target background that is holding you back. Perhaps your perception of yourself is. Right now, no matter what, you cannot give up. I was in your exact same position.
I was graduating and had nothing lined up. I had blown all my interviews and it was completely my fault. I was insecure and convinced myself that I wasnt good enough. I was older and from a no-name school competing with younger, more intelligent students from across the country. I was so deep in my own head I had already convinced myself I wasnt good enough before I walked in the door. I sank into a deep depression, where I stopped studying, going to class, and even applying to jobs. People who havent been there dont realize quite how bad it is, but even years later, it was one of my lowest points in life. I was exhibiting every symptom of extreme depression possible. I had busted my ass up until this point for a good GPA, a ton of great relevant experience, but I still couldnt shake the voice in my head that said, "you're too old, you're not that bright, you don't have anything to offer".
However, I had networked a lot before I became severely depressed, and one opportunity opened up. I fell in love with the company, they loved me, and I started to believe that maybe, just maybe, I was good enough to work a high-stress, fast-paced job that required real intellect. All I needed was one company to give me a shot. If I hadnt gotten that opportunity, I would never have broken in, and might honestly have never gotten a FT job. I was beyond depressed, I was wrecked. But the minute that company moved me to the second round interview, hope entered into the equation for the first time in a long time, and I began to believe.
Back to you. You need to keep pounding the pavement, and you need to find a way to believe in yourself. Depressed? Lack of confidence? Whatever the issue is, you need to start working on in right now. I was so depressed the only way I could get out of bed was adderall. Not the healthy suggestion you expected? Yeah, well when you're massively depressed you will take anything that works. You need to find a way to change your tone and personality when you interview, and the easiest way to do so is to actually believe in yourself and fight the depression. People on this site may not understand what you're going through right now, and may write off your post as being dramatic, but I have been there my dude. I sacrificed years of my life grinding non-stop trying to break into a specific industry, and felt that I had failed. I was essentially giving up when I got my FT offer. Don't make the same mistake I did.
If you want I can PM you the names of a few small shops that are looking to hire, and you can send me your resume for review. I can also look through my rolodex and see if I can help you get some FT opportunities. Let me know if I can help in any way.
Had the following comment on a similar thread: https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/comment/2925679#comment-2925679
Applies to you just the same. Feel like I'll be linking to it a lot this fall.
Target vs non-target is BS re: breaking in. I will take the kid that has an energetic attitude and general curiosity that 3.2’d at some unheard of state school over a 4.0 robot that can’t think bigger picture.
Take it from me and you can read back on my old posts. I started out in valuation, found a way to finish my analyst years as a generalist IB, pivoted to a boutique and am now a senior level banker at the best group within my coverage area and market size band. This is all in the past 7 years. Was literally a Val analyst 9 years ago and had a somewhat similar perspective as you at that time.
you gotta have grit. If you want it, you need to be hungry for it. Understanding the technicals is sorta bs. I forget a lot of them and dust off my notes / re-research before a pitch / convo as needed. You need to show the people you are interviewing with that you are level headed, dependable and can be “that guy”.
dm me if interested in chatting. Don’t give up.
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