Oxford vs Notre Dame for undergrad
International from SE Asia. Aiming for banking/PE as a first job. Received full-ride scholarships for both so cost is not a factor.
Pros for Ox:
- Universal recognition - HYPS level prestige
- 3 years instead of 4 (start earning earlier)
- Have a friend who will also be attending in the same year
- Getting funding for a startup might be easier eventually
Pros for ND:
Want to work & settle down in the US in the long run - will have to request for internal transfer (not guaranteed) or fork out $$$ for an MBA if I don't do undergrad there
Pay is significantly higher in the US (even after accounting for CoL - I'm not a big spender)
Competition is higher in London from my understanding (competing with people from all over the commonwealth & continental europe)
End goal is PE/ entrepreneurship and deal flow/funding is much more plentiful in the US
Cult-like alumni network (from what I've heard)
US college experience just seems more fun overall
Would appreciate any input on either school especially from those who had to make a similar decision.
Congrats on getting into both! They're both great schools. I think it'll come down to whether you see yourself wanting to go to grad school and where you want to live permanently. I would choose Oxford as there are more solid pros, especially name brand that you can use if u choose to come to the US later. Sure ND is a great school in the US but the intls (Aus/GB/Cad) from my office rarely know any of our good schools outside of HYPSM. If you're set on going to grad school, I'd say to take an extra year at Oxford (if that's possible) or go to ND. 3 year degrees aren't recognized in the US. Other cons for ND are the location and idk how true this is but some of the intls at my office say US schools sometimes promise $$ in freshman to lower it later on? I have no idea but I'd double check to avoid surprises later. I think Oxford is a better choice as you'd be integrated in 2 cultures - UK/US if you want and can work both places with a little effort. It's harder to go from ND to working in the UK later on and going to ND won't guarantee a FT us placement. I'm hearing FT placements for intl became much harder in the last few years. I hope this helps. Lmk if you have any Qs and pls SB this! Thanks! And btw which part of SE are you from? HK/SIN/JPN are all good ops too.
Agree with the VPs advice. And he probs meant if u do a MS/MFin/MBA most ask for a 4 yr degree and some say 3 yr degrees aren't accepted. Look up some grad admissions website it's there. Just guessing here but in the US we have associate degrees ~ 2 y so prob schools here want 4 y. On LinkedIn, seeing EU has 3 yr UG + 2 yr masters same length but here we 4 yr UG + 1 yr masters is common. Time will be same for both but u can carry Oxford UG to any school easier than ND. Also if u decide IB isn't for you (it isn't for most) u can still get a great job with the Oxford brand name, harder to do this with ND outside of the US.
I generally agree with the rest of your advice, but what has you say three year degrees aren't recognized in the US? I don't have clear evidence to the contrary, but this is the first I've heard of it.
Oxford for sure. Do an MFin in the US later or transfer from London if you are so determined to work in the US - Oxford is in another universe than ND and will pay off in the long run
one thing we haven't talked about his coursework: if you're down to live and breathe finance go for oxford hands down, if you're into more liberal artsy stuff maybe venture ND. also not sure about ND specifically but international student community is very dependent on school -- probably super normalized at London in comparison to ND (white, christian) if that's of importance to you.
I'm from sg too, are you matriculating this year?
No chance Europe/London is more competitive because of commonwealth lol
Would you care to elaborate on this?
London is 100% more competitive than NYC though. Less seats and more applicants
Then why is NYC generally seen as more prestigious? Genuinely curious
What course at Oxford did you get an offer for?
Ur not gonna go to the US permanently from oxford if you're not an American citizen. If you want to work there, go to ND. But tbh why would you be so obsessed with it?
MBA in the states is another option.
definitely not more competitive in Europe, I knew basically nothing and got offers from top banks and hedge funds for internships. In America that doesn't really fly and your expected to network and drill technicals much more.
Appreciate the insight. Was under the impression that the level of competition is really high. Does being a non-diversity factor into this?
Graduated from ND Dec '21 (class of 2022 but done a semester early).
Lots of people I know got seats at really good banks (Evercore, PJT, GS, etc). Handful got into top PE shops out of school.
One of my close buddies from my dorm (who was also my roommate for a year and a half) was an international student (Half Jamaican, half Chinese) and had no problem getting integrated into the international student community - it's actually quite robust. Actually wish I had spent more time with him at international student events he went to. The time I spent with them was always quite enjoyable (and interesting to get a taste of something not so vanilla, ie all the kids from NE or CA lol).
I think the one of the big thing to consider is location… South Bend sucks weather-wise for half the school year (most of spring semester).
Student community is pretty fun, everyone comes together over shared love of ND.
Alumni network is also incredible. Can't tell you how many alumni I've talked to while in (and now out of) school who were willing to hop on 30m calls to help me with career discernment and figuring out how to go about getting jobs.
Happy to answer any q's you may have.
Also from SEA, went to Ox, now in PE.
If you want to go to the US eventually there's almost no chance unless you do an MBA / go the entrepreneurship route and raise funding there.
Personally I think Ox is a slam dunk over ND, because even then you have to go via the lottery to stay.
feel free to DM
Background, my brother in law who is from a South Asian country goes to Notre Dame. I considered the school and actually got to learn that Notre Dame undergrad business is highly ranked in the US (if you care for rankings). It appears to be a real a jewel in the finance community for undergrads and kids get really good placements thanks to a robust alumni network that is known to be very proud and always willing to help. I know every school says this, but my brother in law actually mentioned that a colleague who abruptly had to re-recruit for a PE internship after the offer he had was rescinded literally got 6 people to speak to him in a week and he converted these into 3 interviews. His response rate from alumni was apparently off the charts, with some simply offering to chat and introduce him to other people. I don't know much about Oxford, but I personally chose my school (US) because of location, but I have struggled to get people on the phone with me. It's a big school and everything, but the attitude from alums is almost like "hey, you made it here, you don't need me to help you get the job" type thing and that can be frustrating. If you plan to get into finance, my experience is that you need to go to a school that is highly regarded but also has people who are willing to pull you up by all means necessary. Finance is already very competitive and not everyone who goes to what some may think of as a top school will be guaranteed a spot in good shops. Most of those spots are handed out simply based on whether you and the MD connected about something like having gone to the same school or your love for skiing. Bottomline, if you plan to work in the US, it will be hard for you to make these connections if you are coming from Oxford, regardless of how Oxford as a brand is well known internationally.
Oxford 100%. 1 in 3 US work visa applicants get accepted so you may get an offer but the country wont let you work. The UK gives visas to everyone and I believe you will get 2 years of full time work authorization after graduating from a UK uni. I spoke with a VP at Citi in London and he said if you get good performance reviews, after 2 years in a BB, they will transfer you to an office of your choice (NYC, SF, LA, MIA, etc). I also spoke with a VP at BAML in St. Pauls and he said 1/10 oxbridge applications get passed through to 1st rounds so getting a job in the city is easy for you (for reference, 4/400 applications from non oxbridge/UCL/Imperial/LSE/Warwick).
I am at BofA/Citi in the US, and idk why someone would want to go to a university at the level of HYPWMS, only to end up at a mid tier BB in the US. I'd say go for banking in the UK, try for PE (BofA/Citi probably also have better exits in the UK), then come to the US for MBA and do PE if you can get the visa
bump. I've heard that OCR/networking works a lot stronger in the US than UK, can anyone shed light on this?
Yea OCR/Networking plays more role in the US than UK, but UK still has target schools (Oxbridge, LSE, LBS, etc) that they recruit from.
Btw when choosing you need to factor in visa issues because the US is getting worse and worse in terms of getting H1B visa these days. To be safe I would rather choose Oxford and then recruit for London/SG/HK rather than US due to visa issues. Yea US pays more but that will not matter if you are getting kicked out because your OPT expires and then you lose on H1B lottery.
The thing is that my country has a special H1B1 visa that is always undersubscribed and is pretty much guaranteed as long as I can find a firm willing to sponsor. Would you say this tips the scales?
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