Screwed up my A Levels, what courses can I go for to still make it in IB?
Firstly sorry if this post comes off kinda like a Student Room post but I really need some guidance from more knowledgeable people on this site. I received my A levels a week ago and in all honesty I’m not particularly sure what options I have ahead of me. I was predicted an A*AA and had an offer to study BSc Economics at Bristol which is a very good semi target. However I ended up getting an AAB which meant I missed that offer entirely and also got rejected from my insurance due to my B being in Maths. For some further context my A levels were in Maths, Geography and Economics. I was very set on pursuing a degree in Economics from a top uni which would give me a good chance of making it in IB/High Finance but this is practically impossible now.
I’ve sort of been forced into taking a gap year but I will need to reapply for university in the next few months. I do have a genuine passion for Economics and it was my favourite subject to study at A level but I did also quite enjoy Geography and so this is an alternative I’m more than happy to explore.
My main questions are should I apply for Economics at lower ranked Russell Group universities like Cardiff or Liverpool despite them being non-targets?
Or do I apply to courses which aren’t Economics at more respected semi targets like Bath/Nottingham? In my case this would probably be humanities based like Geography/Politics etc. which I would still enjoy.
To sum it up because I feel I’ve made it a bit convoluted. Do I apply for Economics at Non Target (but still RG) or Geography/Humanities at Semi Targets?
Thanks for reading and I would appreciate any help!
There is no point in wasting time doing a non-econ degree at a semi target, HR will simply put you at the bottom of the pile.The only universities where you can consider doing a non-eco degree and breaking in are Oxbridge/LSE/ IMP/ and UCL.
Take a gap year redo maths and get an A or A*, then consider applying for the LSE or UCL's geography and Econ course, most preferably UCL because they don't expect all of your A-levels to be taken in one year. You should also apply to all the other semi targets (Notts/Bristol/Warwick) for Econ too. Consider industrial economic at notts next year as well.
Would you say that econ gives you the biggest chances for breaking into IBD, especially from a semi-target?
If you go to a target, the degree doesn’t really matter. If you don’t go to a target probably Econ or STEM is the best bet.
Could maybe scrape into notts industrial Econ which would still give you a good chance of IBD
Not sure whether resitting an A level is the right move for this guy as I’m pretty sure it’s a disadvantage to have retaken an A level especially for LSE, UCL and Warwick (and likely for the other top semis as well). Also straight econ is incredibly competitive at targets and upper semis (Notts/Bristol/Durham etc) with more than enough people predicted/having achieved A*AA or higher at first attempt and so I’d imagine your application will be weaker to these. Plus even if he gets an A* that’s no guarantee of achieving an offer and he’s lacking FM which many applicants have. I would likely think trying to apply for joint degrees with Econ would be the best move whether at semi targets or other RGs (even if non target) and then grinding like hell.
Also about your point on a non Econ degree being useless even at semi’s, how confident are you on that? Simply asking because from reading other threads on this site it seems that isn’t necessarily the case in the last few years at least. Genuinely interested as to what you’ve seen to back that.
I guess beta boys can’t handle the truth now. How the heck has this good advice got so many monkey sh*ts?
Can I ask which comment this is in relation to? Since you’re a VP and almost certainly have loads of experience could you share your thoughts?
From a semi-target yes, but it also depends on a lot of things, like being diversity, having a a good resume etc.
Disagree tbh. Econ is a net negative these days since firms want diversity. Equally or more rigorous but diverse courses would be a better option e.g. engineering/sciences
resit your shit grade and apply to better unis and do something useful with your gap year. can assure you the rat race does not get easier if you try to take the easy way out (it gets harder)
Was in similar boat to you, got the exact same grades in those exact A levels, didn’t get my 2 uni choices and currently at a very ‘ meh ‘ uni studying BSc Finance.
Although it does make it quite a bit harder it’s not impossible to get these roles, you just need to make sure that you try get as much experience and join investment societies etc.
Tbh I think these companies look for maths bottom line but the harder the course the better. I’ve seen a lot of Maths, Engineering, Physics get the same if not more roles than the Econ / accounting / finance students. Just something to keep in mind. Just something I’ve noticed.
Would consider the Investment 20/20 program during your gap year too. I’d probably re sit my A Level Math if I was you and do a 1 year trainee program in AM (would help you for spring weeks when applying in your first year) they have some FO positions although a lot of them have been closed now but check them out good way to build up some experience for school leavers during your gap year and makes you extremely competitive for spring weeks and SA positions since they also give you qualifications like the IMC CFA or CISI which can add a little weight to your application for those early roles. Any experience at this point in finance is relevant and will strengthen your application on top of building your soft skills. Experience trumps education in my opinion so you should be in a decent place to secure a place on those internship programs.
I would also consider some of the apprenticeship programs to break into IB right now, deutsche bank do a FO IB apprenticeship and so do Goldman in their S&T division if your interested. I think Rothschild used to have a global advisory one too but it only opened up one year. Aside from that HSBC do FO apprenticeships in their AM division respectively but would avoid UBS and JPM apprenticeship programs since they’re back office but marketed as FO.
Just some food for thought, the only way into IB or FO in general isn’t through going to a target university>SA>FT offer. Even working at B4 and finishing your ACA and transitioning into some of the ACA specific programs at EB’s like Evercore etc is a viable route to Front office so it’s definitely not the end of the world.
If you go with the humanities course at a semi target I’d probably recommend doing a masters in finance from a target like LBS, LSE & Oxbridge assuming you can afford it (just another way to break in).
And if all else fails then work in a different less competitive career for a few years get your MBA and come in as an associate.
Wouldn’t stress there’s plenty of ways into IB or FO so hope this helps :)
This is great advice; this forum feels like a pressure vacuum if you don't follow the standard path.
There are many ways to break in. Just because you don't go to a target doesn't invalidate IB as a career. Particularly in the UK, where you see so many Big 4 ACA's in IB/MM Private Equity
Yeah, I know a few people from when I worked at Big 4 who went straight into private credit at top firms like CVC.
I’ve even seen people go from non big 4 firms like BDO, grant thornton etc to Elite boutiques so there are many pathways to get there.
I also think there are a lot of US people on this forum, but recruiting is quite different in the UK where B4 experience is actually quite respected and you see people breaking in from non traditional backgrounds. Recruiting in Equity research in the UK they actively seek out ACA’s from the B4 and even hold it in similar regard to the CFA. Another pathway to IB could be that, come in as an associate in ER and network your way into the M&A/Coverage group covering the same sector (TMT, Healthcare etc).
There are so many routes to get into IB if your motivated enough.
What FO sorts of roles (that you mentioned have now closed) are there in the Investment 20/20 programme?
Also, to my knowledge Deutsche is S&T (last remember it being labelled something like FICC).
FO Roles I’ve seen are fixed income research, investment specialist, relationship management & sales. I should probably highlight that some of the traineeships are for grads & school leavers but, a lot of the FO roles go to school leavers. Seen pretty reputable AM firms like Amundi, Vanguard and abdrn posting positions there. I personally know a few people who even joined a BO function like Ops but transitioned into research roles. There are quite a few BO Positions too.
Deutsche has 2 IB apprenticeships one is corporate finance and the other is FICC. The corporate finance program focused in DCM, ECM & Leveraged finance. Just avoid JPM and UBS those are BO and it’s brutal to try move to FO when you start since HR block you as they want you to finish the program and by the time you finish FO hiring managers think your too specialised for IB. I’ve seen a few people go to FO M&A from the apprenticeship program but it would be an uphill battle.
I’d also really think about why you want to do IB since you mentioned you enjoy economics what you learn in economics isn’t really that valuable in Investment banking, if anything I’d argue that an accounting+finance BSc is more relevant and useful for it.
Really evaluate why you want to work in IB is it prestige/salary, exit opps or is it just a buzz word you’ve heard a lot of people say they want to go into. I’d look into that before fully committing too it. If you enjoy economics and you’re interested in being an “investor” then I’d say AM is a better place for you and I’d say more of what you learn in econ is valuable at AM firms.
Similarly, you can always start off in a middle office role and transition into the FO with aggressive networking and almost perfect technicals.
The path into IB is by no means easy even if you do attend a target school but if you’re dead set on it you can break in.
Don’t worry too much about it. There’s still plenty of ways for you to break in. I got BBC at a-level and went to a ‘polytechnic’ to study finance.
I have just started in DCM this year and I would’ve written myself off at the beginning of university. My advice would be to either resit the a-level in maths to get an A*/A or go to another university and make it your life’s work to get into IB.
Tbh, IB isn’t the be all or end all of work. There are plenty of other roles within finance that you can do. Also, as previous posters have said, if you are dead set on IB, there are plenty of ways in. You just have to be persistent and work hard to get in.
I am a big believer in everything happens for a reason, take this opportunity to think about what you want from your working life. You’ve got plenty of time, I didn’t know what IB was until my 2nd year. Don’t stress about it and just enjoy life and what university has to offer
Strand polytechnic?
Curious how all the A level stuff works in the UK and what the different scores mean? Someone posted above on taking a year off to retake, that's possible? but you have to wait a whole year? Seems extremely different from the US so I'm just curious.
Typically the grades go from A* - U. Each grade equals a certain number or “UCAS” points. For example an A* would be 56 points and an A would be 48 points etc etc. A lot of people don’t get the grades they need to get into their university of choice so you can take a gap year between your A levels and university, and then complete your A levels privately by paying out of pocket, then reapplying to your first choice university. You’d have to wait a whole year since you would do the exams alongside everyone else usually, also most university’s take people in 2 cohorts September and January with the majority of uni’s only having a September cohort hence having to wait a whole year.
Most university have a minimum requirement for UCAS points, some are as low as 112 (BBC at A level) while some can be as high as 168 UCAS points (A*,A*,A*). Also a lot of universities prefer certain courses for certain programs. In the UK you only usually study 3 or 4 subjects at A level. For example LSE Finance, Econ etc prefer A level Math at an A at least as it’s a more quantitative course Whilst a more qualitative course like history would prefer essay based subjects.
Interesting. So in the US equivalent of high school, you're only taking 3 to 4 subjects, not 6. Are the classes much longer given its only 3. Kinda interesting that you can retake a year later because in a way as you'd have an advantage over the kids taking for the first time (though I supposed you can take the SAT multiple times too). Do the universities look down on retaking the tests or not really. Also interesting that at such a young age you need to pick your career track.
Redo your A levels
Would a firm know that you have redone your a levels and hold it against you. Are the a level requirements specified to be first sitting or does that not matter?
LSE’s website: 'Given the competition for places and the nature of assessment at LSE, we prefer students who have achieved high grades in their first attempt (and in one sitting) at relevant examinations'
Isn’t ABB the minimum required for IB? I think OP is safe in that regard.
I got AAB and do Law at a semi (bristol/notts/exeter) and ive gotten a decent amount of traction from springs so far. Jus do Geo at a target if possible and you will be fine
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