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UPenn is the better school
Current UPenn CAS student who just did 2024 IB SA recruitment; pick UPenn. Have a ton of friends at Michigan who struck out due to the sheer size of the school and the way recruitment operates on campus. Essentially, you have to be either well-connected, an absolute top candidate within Ross, or break into 2-3 extremely competitive finance clubs. Even better if it's a combination of these points.
I will spend more time speaking on UPenn CAS though as it is something I am much more familiar with. For context, I am headed to a mid-tier BB but received offers from BofA, Citi, Barclays, UBS, and some MMs like Jefferies and Cowen. All you have to do is study something like economics, mathematical economics, or PPE and get involved with some finance clubs on campus to develop a good base for recruiting. I personally had no issues networking across the board, regardless of whether it was a Penn or Wharton alum. Hell, I got my HL and Cowen offers without networking at all. Beyond just my experience, I know people from CAS headed to GS, MS, JPM, BofA, Citi, Barclays, UBS, JEFF, HL, EVR, PJT, Liontree, etc. in my class alone.
A caveat I will add is that top EBs become extremely difficult from CAS; think CVP, EVR, PJT, etc. Those firms are even hard coming from Wharton due to how limited the spots are. Typically the dual-degree kids snag those really early on. I had a friend in Wharton-- stellar candidate headed to a BB's healthcare group-- who had a first round for Lazard and was basically told they had 1-2 spots max on their healthcare team and were likely going with LSM kids.
Nonetheless, I think people tend to overhype what Wharton does for you in recruiting. UPenn is an incredible brand in of itself. I wager UPenn CAS is really only beat out by Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, and Wharton as a target. Not to mention it get pretty cold up there in Ann Arbor.
Going to give the other side of this coin coming from a rising junior at Ross who just signed for SA 2024 IB. Landed a top EB offer (think PJT/CVP/EVR/LAZ) in a top group and have 15 close friends who are going to top BBs, EBs, boutique advisory shops, and even buyside roles like BX/Ares/Desco/P72. Yes, Ross has a lot of very hard workers from top finance clubs who are competing against you, but in my opinion as long as you have a compelling hook there are so many Michigan alum to reach out to and they pull for their own big time. Only drawback, it’s really hard to recruit for everything (M&A, PE, BB, EB) coming from Ross because the pool is bigger and networking gets saturated post-February. My best advise is narrow down your area of competence to something you’re good/passionate about and go all-in. E.g. real estate, tech IB, RX, credit, levfin etc.
Penn CAS on the other hand is full of kids who let’s be honest, knew they couldn’t get into W, are legacies, and are rarely in the best finance clubs (WITG, WUFC) that are feeders into the top BB/EB/PE roles. CAS has higher conversion if your sights are set on mid tier BB or a Jeff/Gugg type of bank. When it comes to top of street seats, the CAS kids get beaten to the punch by the dual degrees, W, and diversity students. At Ross the amount of kids recruiting who are really sharp is lower, giving you better opportunities at the best places.
Penn is cold too, #1 in depression, and phili is dangerous. Ann Arbor has awesome football/basketball on weekends, 0 trouble, and a great culture. Also, the Ross building is so sick it blows Wharton/Huntsman out of the water.
"phili"
Wanted to add my 2 cents; current AN2 at a top EB in a top group and a Wharton alum. Highly invested in OCR for both 2023 and 2024 SA. This year we took more CAS kids than Wharton kids in both diversity and non-diversity. Don’t ask me why— just how the cookie crumbled. Definitely not the case every year but CAS isn’t viewed any differently when we get kids in the interview room. Wharton might get your name in the door, but in my experience, CAS kids don’t perform any worse than Wharton kids.
Also want to address the points below about CAS being “second-class”…I NEVER saw any indication of this being true at all. Clubs like WITG, WUFC, and Wharton PEVC had a large group of college kids year after year. Also want to add that recruiting and finance is self-selecting; while there may be more volume of Wharton kids on the street despite the College being larger, a large majority of College kids don’t recruit banking. Many do medicine, law, etc. while others opt for consulting which tends to favor diverse backgrounds and majors more, which is why CAS and Wharton consulting placement seems to be neck-and-neck on a per-capita basis. Even saw a few CAS kids end up going straight to the buy-side at BX and Apollo which is crazy by even Wharton standards.
Wharton alum and AN2 at top EB. IMO, CAS really does not hold you back at all and at the end of the day it is up to the individual. It’s a tradeoff: Wharton gets favored in terms of volume but per-capita placement does not differ heavily in Wharton vs. CAS.
Wharton kids have a more “preferred” finance background but suffer when it comes to worse competition and struggling to differentiate one self in an environment where everyone is a cookie-cutter, top IB candidate. CAS kids have a less “preferred” finance background and may suffer a bit in networking and initial “wow factor” that dual-degree and top Wharton kids hold. But you get access to Wharton resources and will find it much easier to differentiate yourself with a unique background and less competition/cookie-cutter background and resume.
TLDR: if you REALLY want IB out of CAS at an EB/BB you will get it. Still a massive target on its own (can’t speak too much on Ross comparison but if I had to estimate it seems to perform a degree better than Ross on a per-capita basis)
Took NYU Stern over UPenn CAS years ago, and finished at EVR.
I can't speak for UPenn CAS specifically, but I do understand the dynamics between a top undergraduate business program vs CAS from my time at NYU. There are many more CAS students than Stern/Wharton students to begin with, and many will naturally lean towards economics, especially later on as they're influenced by the business school notoriety. The NYU CAS kids had huge inferiority complexes, and it's honestly not a fun position to be in. They were basically considered "second class" in anything to do with recruitment, and barely placed. Obviously, Wharton is stronger than Stern, and UPenn CAS will be much, much stronger than NYU CAS.
All I can say is Ross/Stern/lower equivalent targets are extremely strong schools with tremendous track records of placing motivated students in banking. You have to basically be a fuck-up at either place to strike out during recruitment. They send tons more students to top BBs/EBs than their CAS counterparts, and that information can be easily pulled from LinkedIn, or through corporate websites on the buyside. If your sibling is actually like finance hardo serious about banking, they'll likely finish at a top firm from Ross, and won't be seen as dirt by their peers for four years. Honestly, if going to UMich Ross doesn't give your sibling enough leverage to place well in banking, they probably weren't great to begin with.
Additional note: Many firms have specific campus recruitment teams, and if you really think about it, recruiting from CAS against extremely strong undergrad business school counterparts may result in lower odds than if you went from a state school. Just from a resume filtering POV.
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At an Ivy rn and think this q is kinda dumb. Would go UPenn every day of the week. 1 - See above comment about CAS v W recruitment outcomes. 2 - If you’re a hs senior you’re probably not 100% set on finance and I think UPenn name will provide better opps if you decide to go against finance and into another field.
UMich kids may be salty ab things, but I think you’d be crazy to pass up UPenn.
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