University of Toronto UNDERGRAD good for IB?
So from what I've read, University of Toronto is the "Harvard of Canada". It has a super high acceptance rate, and Toronto itself is a beautiful city that I'd love to be in. Majors I'm interested in are "Applied Mathematics in Finance and Economics", and econ.
How good is this undergraduate school for IB recruiting?
If you had a choice between UToronto vs. a school like UVA or NYU, what would you pick?
If you had a choice between UToronto vs. a US non-target, what would you pick?
Ivey, Queens > UofT UVA, NYU > U of T U of T> US non-target (not worth the tuition)
Harvard of Canada?? lol If you are interested in IB, go to Ivey or Queens. Only few students at UofT go to IB (mainly boutiques)
This. There are UofT students that do very well for themselves, but they would have to be absolute superstars, and they are also better off going to Ivey or Queens because for the same effort, you'll have more opportunities.
I noticed they market the undergrad commerce program under the Rotman banner now, but there's a vast difference between the quality and depth (of recruiting) of Rotman MBA (which is respectable) vs. their undergrad program
Similarly, Ivey's HBA (undergrad) program sees a lot more recruiting from US groups and top firms than their MBA (which is primarily Canadian placements, albeit good ones)
oh and use the search function. there is a lot of threads on UofT
who said to you its the Harvard of Canada?
There is no Harvard of Canada, all Canadian schools are public. But the expression you heard refers to McGill not U of T. McGill is well regarded in the states and perennially ranked quite favorably. However for Ibanking Ivey is still the best as the others have said with Queen's Commerce and McGill Commerce some notches below Ivey
Ivey and Queens are better for IBD than Rotman Commerce (business undergrad).
That said, UofT is probably overall the top university in Canada (hence the Harvard of Canada comment, I assume) - combining the top med school, law school, and economics program. They are also number two behind Waterloo for engineering and computer science. Overall - a very solid school with a terrific reputation and large alumni network. Not the best for IBD at the undergrad level, though Rotman is arguably only behind Ivey at the MBA level.
I was looking for that exact clip from The Simpsons
LOL @ Abdel's post.
Also reminds me of an older Simpsons clip on Harvard... President of Harvard (to Lisa): Nasty business that zero, naturally Harvard's doors are closed to you... but we'll pass your file to (snickers) Brown
U of T is terrible for IB recruiting. Ivey is the target in Canada.
The above comments are dated and do not reflect the current reality of the Rotman Commerce Program. The Program was overhauled a number of years ago when it was rebranded. They now have the same faculty as the MBA program and the top financial trading lab in the country which is currently under expansion. Barclays, Goldman Sachs and Merrill Lynch all hired from there last year plus the Canadian banks (and, yes, boutique firms). They also now have their own career services exclusive to the undergrads meaning they do not share services with the MBA students. I recommend doing visits on your own of course.
Awesome, thank you for the responses everybody.
So would Ivey/Queens be better IB schools than NYU/UVA?
NYU and UVA are far better schools for overall IBD recruiting than any of the Canadian schools unless you are aiming to do Canadian IBD.
Let me put it this way:
US target > Canadian target overall US target = Canadian target if you want Toronto IB
The OP actually asked about programs outside of Rotman Commerce.
For the Non-Rotman finance/economics related degrees (Applied Math in Fin & Eco, Math and Eco, Economics), the only people that I know that have decent internships are the ones who have really high GPA +club exec + play a sport. The only IB internships are Chinese internationals who get internships in China (or maybe some random boutique IB internships in Canada/US). The poster's above have talked about the lack of oppurtunities in IB for Rotman students - well they are much worse for non-Rotman students at U of T.
With that being said, noone really attends these programs to break into IB out of undergrad. These programs are meant to give you a highly quantitative grounding to prepare you for a top master or phd degree in math/eco/finance/OR - this is something U of T does well in since the math and economics programs are at the top of their league in Canada.
Hmm is Ivey really that substandard compared to U.S. regional targets? I don't think UVA or NYU places as well into LA as Ivey does. What do you guys think?
From what I heard, Rotman's last year's graduating class.. no one landed any BB summer internship/Full-time in the US. Like jke said, those who break in are the ones who have connection in asia. This yr, five ppl from Queen's landed summer intern at GS, NY, just sayin.
Ivey and Queen's are the only targets in canada.
Most students that come to U of T want to stay in Toronto. From the co-curricular Finance Street Smarts group this year 9 grads from the Rotman Class of 2012 landed on Bay Street (i.e. IB or S&T Analysts or junior buy-side) and 10 from the Rotman Class of 2011 ended up in the same place (again, interpreted as IB or S&T Analyst or junior buy side). Plus the placements mentioned in an earlier post (Barclays, Goldman Sachs and Merrill Lynch).
You probably know that regardless of the b-school, students with family/personal connections will get great Bay/Wall Street internships – the true question would be those students the program and/or career centre is helping who don’t have an established network find Bay/Wall Street internships and fulltime placements…of the ones quoted above, most did not have any type of established network in Canada.
This year there was a New York Finance trip with 10 Rotman students meeting 10 firms over 2.5 days. Expect that to bear fruit.
I goto laurier/waterloo/mcmaster and I'm the only guy who received 5 first rounds and landed an offer from the school. Other students I ran into from mcmaster and UoT had 1-2 interviews only. Honestly, if you had the opportunity to go to Ivey or Queens, go. The work you have to put in when you're from UfT/mcmaster/waterloo/laurier is so much more. Kids from Ivey or even schulich with absolutely no work experience but 3.9 gpa's were getting numerous first rounds whilst comparable students from other schools were getting less attention. Having said that, go to UoT if you're very confident you'll have a lot of relevant experience on your resume by the time you're applying as a junior - I had a lot of experience and started up an investment club, plus I networked a lot. So as you see, I had to put in alot more work than my peers at Ivey.
In short, go to Ivey or Queens if you had the chance and don't look back.
To be honest, University of Toronto is over rated in my opinion, queens, ivey and york are much better business schools. Also, the support systems are horrible they actually try to weed you out. I know there not supposed to spoon feed you ( no shit), but they literately accept more students then seats. Id go to another school. Just my thoughts.....
In addition... Laurier has a wicked co-op program and so does waterloo... Might me something you want to check out. Goodluck!
Rotman students are not "weeded out". 80% of students last year moved from first to second year into their Specialist program. To the best of my knowledge - that's comparable with other undergrad b-schools. I also strongly disagree with the assertion that the support systems are "horrible". Lots of resources. Again, as noted in a previous post - the perceptions I have been reading are really dated.
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My exposure to the MBA students is dated - so consider that when reading the response. I do know in the midst of the meltdown a few years back - Rotman MBA's had hiring rates that exceeded top US b-schools and were not much lower than usual. You probably know that net wages in Toronto are not as high as NY or London but there is a trade-off with lifestyle. Also, easier for international students to stay in Canada after graduation - 3 years automatic and then most will apply to be a PR. I also know that the MBA's were very satisfied with the quality of their program/profs. The school is currently expanding which should bring in more international recruiters for their MBA grads - economy of scale.
As I noted in a previous post, Rotman undergrad underwent a revamp a few years back and they graduated the first class last year. Lots of additional resources. The have their own career services (not shared with MBA's), math labs, writing labs, eco aid centre, first year learning communities, academic counsellor, academic early warning. Current students are very satisfied with courses and resources.
Best place for answers is with a current student that is taking advantage of all of the resources. I hope that helps.
trappjef lol this guy apparently works for Rotman. Rotman gives you the international exposure because of U of T's overall ranking and the Chinese international students.I have a lot of friends who go to rotman and if you want to network your way into China, Rotman is the place to go because TONS of international students(who all have family connections in where ever they come from) go there and mandarin is being spoken more than english.
In terms of IB, if you are aiming for BB, Ivey and Queen's give you the best chance.
In addition, Rotman's MBA is way better than its undergrad.
LOL UofT is not the Harvard of Canada because there is no such thing. It is the best research school in Canada, and if you are interested in academia, it is only rivalled by McGill and UBC. With all of that said, it is absolutely terrible for undergrad recruiting because that's not what the University's priorities are. Like previous posters have said, if you are set on IB, go to Queens/Ivey or one of the US schools you mentioned. If you want to get the best possible education in mathematics, go to UofT.
As a current undergrad student at UofT, there's a few things I'd like to clarify. Firstly, the career centre provides every opportunity to be able to successfully break into IB. All Canadian banks/boutiques recruit from Rotman, as well as most regional BBs in Toronto (BAML, MS, GS, Citi). If you're looking to do banking in Toronto, UofT along with York/Mcgill/Ivey/Queens are the target schools. I personally know a number of people who had 5+ first round interviews from UofT, and many who got IBD offers. If you take advantage of the opportunities provided including financial modeling workshops, excel workshops, and interview prep you have every opportunity to break into IB from Rotman undergrad. The resources are there, you just have to use them.
No. Ivey/Queens are the targets, and McGill to a lesser extent.
UofT and York are second tier as far as recruiting is concerned. I would also lump Laurier in here (which in some cases has the advantage because they have a good co-op program... but this may also be available again to just the very top performers, and the rest may get squat...)
You say that you personally know a number of people who had 5+ interviews. At Ivey, it's not uncommon for top students to have 20-30+ first round interviews. And then for those who are good students with good scores (let's say the ~3.6-3.7 gpa crowd), they could very well get 5+, and these are the 'good' students, not the best. There is a big difference. Ivey/Queens gets recruiters that recruit for NY/SF/LA/UK/HK offices at BBs. They also get some very respectable PE shops recruit (and not just the large pensions, but ones based in US that have out-of-undergrad analyst spots).
Not trying to rain on your parade, or trying to start a pissing contest between schools (I graduated, I don't care). And I would love to see a story of a UofT kid, who worked his ass off and got a spot at GS. And as you have pointed out, the school has resources for the students.
However, there's a clear difference of potential opportunities available per output of one's effort between these schools. I know a couple of UofT grads who are quite intelligent and probably would have gone much farther had they gone to a target school. Unless tuition cost is an issue, someone who's a potential hot shot should just transfer to Ivey or had started at Queen's since year 1.
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