Will I pay back 300k in Columbia tuition?

I'm an international student looking to break into investment banking in the US who recently got admitted into Columbia with no aid at all. I ran my back-of-the-napkin math and if I do indeed break into bulge bracket and go through the normal salary progression, while eating ramen and cutting on alcohol - I'll probably be able to pay it back in 5 years. Is this right? Should I do this? Will I hate my life?

I also got admitted into a good non-target university in Minneapolis, MN for a full scholarship so I'm considering going there and making another (better) shot at Ivies next year aiming for full aid (since I got waitlised by 3 Ivies so I kinda have a chance next year). What should I do?

  • been a long-time lurker here, this place is truly life-changing.
 

Are you interested in IB and in the lifestyle going with it ? if Yes, go for it / if No, don't.

Do not force yourself into a path which is not yours, life is not about chasing debt in a shitty daily routine hating your life so you might better aim for a great work/life balance, wife, kids and doggos. Cannot really answer for you but if you are certain that you are willing to work in MM/EB/BB, Columbia it is.

 

You do not have a guarantee of a job in IB, and as an international you will need sponsorship. All very uncertain. Also, your parents will need to sign for a loan that size-are they willing to guarantee repayment,?

 
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Don't take the debt.  You are not a US citizen.  You may have a very hard time getting an ib job.  So much of getting an ib job is "fit".  Do you get along with and know how to find common ground with American lacrosse players who grew up in Connecticut?  Are you confident you won't be seen as awkward or "not a fit"?

Have you ever lived in the US? Have you ever been friends with an American?

Not saying it's impossible but I see lots of international kids get dinged for just being too "fresh off the boat".

Now if you go to Minnesota you have no debt hanging over your neck.  You can relax, enjoy your time in school, and truly do what you want to do(you may find yourself getting super interested in another lower paying career for example).  Without a debt load north of 300k, you can freely choose your destiny (IB really sucks and isn't a good fit for lots of people.  I would never want it to be my only way to pay back student loans).

 

No objective way to measure for sure, but I've had American friends that I constantly talk to from the age of 5 (thanks to the internet), have lived in the US for two months as part of an exchange program and was able to vibe well with Americans, and know a good bunch about the country's history, geography, economy, and politics, perhaps not to degrees as intricate as lacrosse in Connecticut though (but I can bond using pop culture, trivia, etc).

 

I'm surprised you did the math and are still considering it.  

There are just too many variables at play here - whether you secure an IB job in the first place, getting sponsorship to work in the US, whether you secure any other job that would help you pay this down

And would you really want to give away what's likely a second big city rent payment for 5 years (that's aggressive - it will take you closer to 7-8 assuming you do normal things like buy a car and travel), plus what sort of interest rate does an international get on a loan that size?   I'm not particularly debt averse but I would hate to give most of my hard earned money away each month to a creditor.   Those are some painful checks to write every month even if you do secure a high paying gig.  

Think long and hard about it and see if there's any way you could set aside a significant portion to attack it - either parental support, an inheritance, etc. 

 

The answer to your question differs from person to person. Ultimately, it depends on how ambitious you are, coupled with how intelligent, hard working and socially competent you are. If you believe that you have what it takes to start a successful company or be a F500 CEO, PE partner, HF manager, IB MD, etc. then go for it. Columbia will provide you with the branding and network to be successful. There have been countless people from the school with countless more to come.

If you’re someone who just wants to be comfortable, then absolutely do not take on the debt. You’ll get crushed by that amount of debt as an average or even above average person.

 

Congrats on your acceptance! I'm an international at an Ivy rn and I'll go against the grain a lil based on the responses here. My situation is a bit different in that the school and my parents pay for everything so I don't have as much stress as you obviously. In terms of job placement, all my international friends who wanted finance got jobs across quant and IBD; some went to EBs, the rest BBs. The ones who are doing consulting are going to MBB and tier 2 consulting. I think if you hit the ground running like starting to intern in Freshman year, you will get a decent job for sure. On the cultural fit part when interviewing, sometimes internationals sort of self-sort into more quantitative roles and study more quantitative subjects as well so make sure you have an apptitude for that; you will have to study something designated as STEM by Columbia to get the OPT extension. When you apply to jobs its basically go big or go home because it's mostly the most estabilished firms that will sponsor for your Visa. Also did you apply for aid when you applied to Columbia or did you elect not to apply for aid? If you did, you can always appeal and ask for more; makes a big difference in my experience.

The biggest concern here i think is rather if you are really dead set on finance in general or one of these higher pay white collar careers cus being this much in debt will really limit your options in what you pursue. Good luck. 

 

Thanks a lot for the comment, great seeing a fellow international! You mentioned "go big or go home", do you think there is a chance for me not to get a visa even if I did my best? Has that happened to any intl at the Ivy? And yes, I am dead set on a high-paying career path, with debt or without :)

 

Yes, it's possible that you don't get the visa lottery because, with an undergrad degree, you have around a 16% chance of getting an H1B each year. Even if you have STEM OPT and do the lottery 4 times starting from the summer you graduate, there's theoretically a 50% chance you won't get H1B at all. This is why many internationals do a masters with their undergrad at the same time to have the master's lottery as well (about 1/3 chance each year), or they go back to school after their banking program for an MBA. I don't think Columbia has the combined undergrad and grad school option but you should check. Having said that, I haven't seen many people who have not gotten an H1B at a bank. Worst-case scenario, you get shipped off to London or some other office, and the company can transfer you back with an L-1 visa or sth. 

 

I feel uniquely qualified to weigh in here. In short, my view is that Columbia is higher-risk, much higher upside potential. UofMinnesota is a good school, and you can absolutely have a lucrative career in finance or elsewhere if you go that route.

- I went to Columbia for undegrad, Midwest non-target for grad school, similar to the Mpls-based school you mention. Have several friends that when to the U of Minnesota.
- Currently a senior banker at a top EB


Here's what it boils down to:
- IF you are prepared to take advantage of what Columbia offers (which means working extremely hard and diligently, both in class and networking / out of class), GO TO COLUMBIA.

If you put in the effort, you will have opportunities at Columbia that 99.9% of other schools do not provide. Part of this is being in Manhattan/part of Columbia. A large part of this is that you will meet billionaires kids, people in powerful political positions, etc <== this is the extreme potential upside value of an Ivy / Columbia, ONLY IF you take advantage of it (not many do), and are talented (generally this means people skills - everyone at Columbia is book smart).

The Columbia degree stays with you for life, and (justified or not) will open doors for decades to come, no questions asked.

Clearly, you should not take on the significant debt involved with a CU degree to pursue a career outside of finance/tech/medicine - You need to be motivated by $.

- You can absolutely have a lucrative career in finance or otherwise going to the University of Minnesota. Is it harder to break-in? Yes. Would it reduce your chances of an extreme upside career? Probably. Is it as good of an education as Columbia? Not even close - I've lived both. Is it the safer choice? Absolutely.

---- Not a wannabe anymore.
 

I will disagree with posters here; I think many of them are in the US and US citizens as said. First off, any international discussing debt must not come from a well-off family and want to just go party and experience life in the USA. So very likely this is a life changing opportunity for you and your family. You got accepted to a world reknown university that will let you work in Canada/UK/Europe/Asia etc.. You take the debt and understand the day you land in the USA is the day to get to work and while others can enjoy college more so for now you have to work. 

 

Going to a target school was a huge benefit to my personal branding and the network especially coming from a small town regular high school. Even then, $300k debt sounds absolutely terrible. If you make it into IB and stay on the track then sure you can pay it off. What if you don't get the internship, or don't convert FT, or get laid off at some point, or realize you don't want to stay long-term, or realize you want to do something else in finance (or not in finance at all)? In all of these (cumulatively very likely scenarios) it is absolutely not worth it. Its not even about if you can grind hard enough to get in, there's plenty of reasons, sometimes out of people's control, on why they end up not getting into this track. Anyone saying otherwise has massive survivorship bias. 300k would be >$3k payments for 10 years. Even if you get into IB, that would kill your analyst years base salaries. 

 

I thank you for your input and totally get where you're coming from. About your points about not getting an internship, not getting a full-time offer, or getting laid off: I think we are assuming I work hard and smart enough for this to not happen. And about realizing that I don't want to stay in finance long-term: I don't think that's a possibility and it is not how I think about things. I do many things I don't like because I have to and I do them extraordinarily well. I, fortunately, do like finance now, and don't imagine hating it being detrimental even if that was the case.

 

You can work extremely hard and not get an offer. You can work extremely hard and end up signing at a CS or UBS and look what would have happened. Even layoffs at other places ppl have been laid off that I’m sure worked hard. I would not take getting into banking as a given to justify crippling debt.

 

Do NOT take on 300k of debt. Are you crazy? Go do the full ride, enjoy life a little, live a little.

Every dumbass here telling you to take the debt for the "brand" is out of their mind. 300k for what? So that you get your ass fucked by the moneyman before you even start working? So that you "network" with billionaire's kids? With what money? You don't really think them kids are just going to sit around in their dorms chilling? No motherfucker they got shit to do, money to blow. Are you going to take a bus to go on the ski strip with them? Are you going to sew your own tuxedo for the formals motherfucker? 

Do NOT take the debt. You WILL hate your life. You WILL NOT pay it back in 5 years. 

300k of debt to work the arguably most ungratifying job one could possibly work (after biglaw that is, lawyers are even more miserable). Don't do it man.

 

This 1000%    have fun networking with all the rich kids in nyc on daddy's dime.

Op you literally won here.  Your parents can't afford to pay for college. You got a full ride at a decent school.   You made it.  Go there and crush it

And for what it's worth, I think Columbia kind of is ovverated.  Weak ivy with too much touchy feely sjw rot.   I wouldn't think anything less of a Minnesota grad vs a blue haired Columbia grad.

Maybe if this was harvard I could entertain the discussion....but Columbia? No way

 

I make almost 500k a year and feel like I cam barely live in this overpriced chithole.

You want to be a fully indebted college student in nyc without a work visa?  Are you insane?

 

Wouldn't do this for Columbia.  Brand is not THAT strong.  

HYP maybe......(still dumb but I could understand).

 

Depends on your risk appetite. You could find an online coding job and work remotely to pay off your debt.... something that I couldn't do when I was younger. 

300k is going to be peanuts in the grand scheme if you hit it big. 

You live one life, go for it.

 

You're doing calculations wrong. Gotta calculate difference in your life-time income by year between 1) if you take Columbia offer, 2) if you take Minneapolis offer. Then discount this difference using student loan interest rate and compare NPV to $300k. I guarantee you NPV will be > than $300k.

If you take Columbia offer, you'll be making like $300k in 3-5 years after graduation growing in the future (even if you don't make it in IB). If you take Minneapolis non-target, as an international, expect to go back home. Depending on your country, assuming it's not UK/Canada/etc., you'll be making like $30-60k in 3-5 years after graduation. So, like $250k difference per year.

P.S. I took $200k in student debt. Still have $100k to pay back, but it was absolutely the right choice. I wouldn't be making nearly as much if I didn't take the debt.

 

If it's a loan from your parents then what's the matter? Whatever you pay them, it's part of your eventual future inheritance. I just wanted to get this out of the discussion because there's a difference between the consequences of not paying your loans and accumulating interest or even risking personal bankruptcy vs a family loan. Also, would this loan have a significant impact on your parents' lifestyle? That's definitely a question that will help me decide between Columbia or a full scholarship above everything else.

Another concern should be how this financial decision could impact your future lifestyle (or your parents if applicable). If you're concerned with WLB or you'd want to experience more things out of life besides work, then you may end up questioning your decision down the road (so if you come from an affluent family, first try to see how you do only with ramen and without going out).

If everything is in your favor: No impact on your parents' lifestyle, you see yourself as a workaholic (especially when saving to repay the loan), you really believe you can make it in the US considering some challenges (especially culture fit), and you're aim is to achieve some type of extraordinary professional accomplishments that wouldn't be possible without going to an acceptable school then Columbia may be a good option.

 

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