Am I really bad at trading?
I've been on a S&T desk for over a year and still yet to make as single trade. I basically help with all the hedges and little things around the office, but when it comes to actually producing anything in profit (and to actually get me above poverty level pay) I am falling flat on my face.
I have to build my entire client book from scratch (no desk contacts to work with). I haven't received any training on how to initiate contact with potential clients or how to show them items that we are sellers of. I seriously don't know if I am just really bad at what I do or if the circumstances are just not conducive to developing anyone to succeed.
I come in first every morning, load all our inventories and set up our runs. I am in charge of all our desk's hedges and assuring they're always up to date and correct. I help with the smaller things like making sure our securities are live on BB and the prices are correct. But, beyond that, I literally feel like I am slamming into a wall. I come from a D1 athletic background, I am willing to do whatever it takes to learn and be successful. But It feels like I am just left out to dry. It would be like showing up the first day of practice and the coach saying that they've got their own athletes to train, I need to find a way to be successful but the expectation is to be at the NCAA championship in 6 months.
I don't know where to go from here because I am STRUGGLING with the low pay (because of how the profit share works with our company on trades).
Any help is seriously and greatly appreciated.
Ah, the jungle of trading can be a tough vine to swing from, especially when you're starting out. It sounds like you're putting in the hard work and showing the dedication of a true athlete, but you're not seeing the scoreboard light up just yet. Here's some advice based on the most helpful WSO content:
Building Client Relationships: Networking is key. Since you're starting from scratch, consider reaching out to alumni from your school, former athletes, or even cold-calling potential clients. The WSO Networking Guide can be a treasure trove for strategies on how to build and maintain these relationships.
Training and Development: If your firm isn't providing the training you need, take the initiative to seek out mentors or online resources. The WSO Academy has courses that could help you sharpen your skills in client interaction and sales techniques.
Understanding Your Role: It's important to clarify your role with your superiors. If you're expected to generate profits but aren't given the tools or training, it's a conversation worth having. You might need to set up a meeting to discuss your career path and the support you need.
Patience and Persistence: Trading is a marathon, not a sprint. It can take time to build up the skills and client base necessary to be successful. Keep pushing, keep learning, and don't be afraid to ask for help or guidance from those around you.
Risk Management: Since you're handling hedges, make sure you're also up to speed on risk management practices. This is crucial for your own trading and for when you start advising clients.
Evaluate Your Environment: If after all your efforts, you find that the environment isn't conducive to your growth, it might be time to consider other firms or trading desks that offer better training and support for junior traders.
Remember, every trader has hit a wall at some point, but it's the ones who find a way to climb over it that make it to the championship. Keep swinging, champ!
Sources: So I heard You Want to Start Trading?, Why is it so hard to survive as a prop trader?, Great Trading Performance, But Would a Shop Take Me Seriously?, First Steps into Trading, Does anyone else feel that trading is stupid and not intellectually stimulating at all?
At first glance sounds like you just work at a bad shop for juniors. Kinda crummy they expect you to hit the ground running and be building a book from day one.
That said, looking at your post something that troubled me is you didn't bring up asking questions to your colleagues & bosses. A year in you should be asking questions relevant to trading/building a book. You need to be doing that otherwise you will have no hope of being successful.
Say you are asking questions and your managers just aren't willing to train juniors you should be looking for a new job, you probably have enough info picked up from observation and existing work that you could show yourself to be an asset as a junior somewhere else. Next, and this is probably pretty controversial but why not take some of your market observations build a trade idea and swing for the fences by putting on some risk at this point. Best case scenario you make money for your employer along with yourself if I understand the comp pool correctly and you gain valuable experience by just doing it. Worst case scenario you blow up, gain some valuable experience, and walk away from a bad situation.
This is coming from a guy who washed out of his first job and still nowhere near figuring things out so take it as you will.
Thank you for the reply. I seriously appreciate the insight.
I would definitely agree with you about the development as a junior aspect. It was very urgent for me to get licensed, but after that, everything has been hands off, for the most part. I've learned a tremendous amount being on the desk (both from bloomberg and trading knowledge). My biggest hinderance has been, like I'd stated, cold calling potential accounts without a full knowledge base on everything to do with what we trade. I think I have a fair grasp now, which helps.
Your next point is definitely controversial. While I would love to start taking on some risk and have an opportunity to make some money, they spot if a treasury is off like hawks. A new position that affects the PnL would almost certainly get me canned before I could even realize a gain or loss. I'm still trying to remain optimistic about everything. But, like you've seen on this and previous posts, I am really contemplating what the best path is going forward. I'd just like to be putting some money in my pocket for once. I was very fortunate to graduate with no loan debt and some savings to start my career. But have seen that trickle away over time because of being in a high COL city with very low pay and hours that don't allow for any gig jobs.
Yes you are bad at trading. But you're still there so the window remains open to get good. Trading is about relationships. You need to talk to clients and salespeople and get information. Then talk to traders about implementing that information. Suggest trade ideas. Yes there are bad ideas, but you have to take some risk, no ideas is a one way ticket to middle office. Plus you're there to learn, and even if your ideas don't hit the mark, you will get feedback that will teach you what really matters. If the ideas are interesting, the traders will appreciate them even if they don't end up doing them. That is how you start the conversation.
Appreciate the info.
I guess to give a little more context for us. Our desk is a little unique, in that we all act as both salesman and traders. So the responsibility is on everyone to establish their own client book while also generating ideas.
It's great because there are less hoops to jump through when trying to get deals done with clients. The hard part initially, as I have learned, is that so much time is spent just establishing those initial contacts, that it becomes difficult to spend time creating ideas. Especially when most people are focused on their own clients as well.
I absolutely ask questions to seniors on the desk and take extremely thorough notes whenever I am given color from an account. I also show out any of the items we own or have orders on to clients that have shown an interest in similar items. Just a lack of initial structure and guidance to build juniors up as fast as possible is what I think is lacking the most in the current situation.
You gotta get out of there, this set up is impossible for any junior person, you have gained a very valuable set of skills that make you a very good junior hire at another shop or any sort of markets based junior role in finance. In the meantime to survive at this place I would ask to act as sales only. Try to set up a deal where any client that you find or who has not traded with the firm in a year that you can get to trade with the desk is yours and you get paid 50% of the revenue on any trade that they do. I would imagine the more senior traders would appreciate seeing the additional flow that they can show their clients. At the very least you have a fighting chance here to market to new clients that your desk is active in certain spaces and can help them. I am also very curious what product this is and what type of clients this caters to.
Appreciate the response. Feel free to pm me if you want the more detailed info (just don't like giving out super detailed info publicly)
But we are a Fixed Income shop. Regional BD with a modestly sized balance sheet and we cover institutional clients.
is this chatgpt geenrated
I read a few of your posts, have you been trying to interview elsewhere since joining this newer desk?
Around the 1 year mark is where I started looking around. Had my suspicions way earlier on and wanted to see if there were others who had similar feelings that I could talk with.
Obviously, things still aren't really developing and I'm not one to be complacent. So I began networking around and seeing what doors might be open.
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