lol i can't help but ask ---- is the S&T trading desk/floor on the major investment banks ....in terms culture specifically --- still the same as what is described in the book? ... or has Wall Street tamed down significantly since the time of the book's release? ...thanks
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Nothing like it used to be. The advent of the Internet completely changed the culture. What used to be a scene out of Animal House is now more like a Star Trek convention.
yes and no. Wall st is definitely more corporate then it was in the 80s, but many of the old crusty salesman from the 80s are absolutely still around and are no different. In fact, I personally have worked with both "Dash Riprock" and "Herman the German" from that book who both are still wall st salesman. I definitely wouldnt call government bond trading/sales forces today "star trek conventions" but you also see much less phone throwing and the like. Also, the questionable sales practices discussed in the book are 100% the same today.
From what I've been told, the advent of women on the trading floor also changed things.
Dude its much lamer. Lots of asians (including me). Meritocracy really ruined things.
depends on the desk, the algo desk is definitely a lot further away from liars poker than the distressed debt desk.
the algorithmic trading desk? how are they different, as in a particular BB or it is like a norm?
Just think about it, your algo desk stocked with quantitative types is a lot less likely to have the frat house feel than say the mortgage desk.
well I suppose you are right. better be nerdy than fratty...
^^^ which desks are more /the most "fratty?"
In my experience, Mortgages (particularly non-agency) and Credit (High yield more than others if memory serves me right).
I have always heard equities was fairly "fratty."
Is there a ficc product desk right now that is particularly hot to be a salesman on right now?
From my experience (nothing amazing) i would say:
equity traders are the most 'all american' fratty. (just execute trades at vwap. what is there to get really pissed off about? Your book is red and you don't give a flying fuck seeing as you're getting commission)
high yield most similar to liars poker characters (saw phones breaking etc)
everything else much more cerebral
Wall street in general (at least where i worked) was sterile and 'professional.' Very little genuine comments such as "FUCK YOU" and "CHECK OUT THAT ASS"
Credit? I've always thought of Boaz Weinstein as the quintessential credit trader - doesn't seem like he would be described as "fratty".
High yield credit is very different to what Weinstein does. He's in structured credit, CDO, CDS, alphabet soup stuff, which involves a lot of modelling to stucture/price/arb etc. High yield credit on the other hand, is high yield because there is so much uncertain information (e.g. bankrupt vs. not bankrupt), thus, not able to model meaningfully. More of a gut feel thing.
Ah, gotcha. Thanks for that.
Boaz Weinstein is only the quintessential credit trader if being quintessential requires a lifetime PnL of negative a billion or more. The cerebral strategy of Boaz was just being levered long and marketing himself well.
Some of the quant desks at credit suisse and JP Morgan attract really smart "dorky" types, moreso than goldman, morgan, barclays, etc. No idea why.
at the bank i'm at, corporates seems to be very fratty (with lots of yelling across the floor and cursing--- a trader and salesman got into a serious argument the other day, quite interesting
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