BB Sales and Trading
I just started a job as a credit trader at a middle market investment bank. Solid name, but not bb. It is quite clear how much the job has changed from the last 5 years just from my understanding of this.
I am curious though.. This sales and trading is a lot of fun, but since there is so little balance sheet it seems like a very sales driven environment, where things used to be more trader driven.. My question is is it like this at all investment banks, IBs? What is the environment like at those places nowadays? How about something like Citadel credit sales for example?
Thanks
The MOST common / important questions for BB S&T (Originally Posted: 06/21/2011)
The 3 questions I'm going to ask are what I deem to be the most important/common questions to a prospective S&T applicant in undergrad. And yes, I've used the search function in WSO /quantnet /Willmott /nuclearphynance and browsed over 100 pages of info and I still cannot get a clear cut response to this. Anyone who contributes with meaningful info = SB and free BJ.
The ultimate questions:
Which internships are best in preparing towards BB S&T? Fixed income research at a hedge fund? Assistant trader at a prop shop? Investment management? (And please don't tell me that the best internship for BB S&T is another S&T internship - it's not like IBD where freshmen/sophomores can easily get boutique IBD experience; boutiques rarely have S&T groups, and S&T groups RARELY take any underclassmen.)
SPECIFICALLY for BB S&T, which background appears more attractive - Computer Science or Math? Now before you flame me that you need BOTH, the stuff you learn in a Comp Sci major is vastly different than what you learn in math. Yes, both majors usually take up till multivariate calculus but math majors usually go into stochastic calculus/PDEs whereas comp sci majors go into object-oriented programming. Suppose that you could only single major in one of those areas.
Moreover, I've read several posts stating that for BB S&T, programming skills beyond excel/VBA is unessential, implying that a computer science background (in Java/C++ etc.) isn't that useful in market making. However I've also read that in trading, the "math" that they are referring to is mostly quick mental calculations rather than the hardcore math (ex. stochastic calc/PDEs) and that calc-based probability/stats is really all that is necessary. So which one is more useful SPECIFICALLY for BB S&T market making? (NOT algo/HFT stuff)
Thanks, and hopefully the replies to this thread will answer some questions most often asked by aspiring S&T undergrads.
1.- I'd say FI research>Assitant trader>IM. But all three are good. Oh, and BTW, it is no that difficult to get S&T experience in your sophomore year. Maybe not in GS or MS, but there are many smaller and less competitive banks. I got a SA in trading as a a Sophomore, not in a BB but in a bank good enough that everybody knows it.
2.- Computer Science for MO/BO, math better for FO. In BB MM you might have some more hardcore stuff in derivatives, or if you work for a structuring desk instead of MM. But yes, nothing too complicated.
3.- No one. What you need is to be comfortable working with numbers. Just basic Calculus and Algebra are enough, but of course the more advanced classes you take the more comfortable you'll be with the complex models.
USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION
You can definitely get a sophomore S&T position at good banks.
What product within fixed income r u most interested in? there's way less quantitative backgrounds in several fixed income products
SPECIFICALLY, there is no "path" toward BB fixed income trading. Get an internship that is interesting and that you can talk about. Anything related to working on a trading desk/dealing with fixed income shows enough interest on your part. If you are smart enough and get lucky with connections/networking, you definitely can get a sophomore internship at a BB. Takes some effort on your part..
In terms of math skills, unless you are a quant (and i'm talking about straight making models, not actual market making) math skills beyond algebra/basic calc are NOT NECESSARY. You have a computer and specific programs for a reason (to make your job easier).
Edit: answer the question above me to get more SPECIFIC help.
Strategy at BB in S&T? (Originally Posted: 05/10/2011)
Hi all,
My question is -- for those of you with any experience/knowledge of strategy at a BB in S&T, could you shed some light on the job? The hours, the work, the exit opps.
Thanks in advance.
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DDM, are you serious?
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Yeah freaking out here too. Just PM-ed you but feel free to reply on this board. Any other people have any suggestions about what to do at this point?
Sent you a reply. you should take the offer but make sure you create a rotation for youself, so that you can actually work a little bit on the sales desks...
I may be overreacting, but at first I began convincing myself it was going to be a great experience, given that the description seemed to touch on a few things I figured could help me in my long-term career goals (I'm too positive a person overall I guess). If what he says is true though, I'm getting shafted?
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Who gave out rotations?
We dont have formal rotations at this BB...it's a fixed placement but apparently there are weekly "teach in sessions" to explore other desks within the division.
DDM -- when you say create a rotation for myself, should I email HR about this in advance, or should I just get there and try to meet people during training/ask if I can shadow them?
And...is it possible to get a FT offer NOT from the desk that you're placed on for summer? As in, from another desk?
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Let me PM you the desk description, you have no idea how much I appreciate the help.
replied to all replies. np @ all.
Thanks so much DDM, I guess I will just...wait until training and see if I can network/try to rotate then.
Also, if anyone else knows anything about Strategy that would be so helpful as well.
needless to say i left out that within a FT analyst program S&T vs. Strategy will make similar comp #s -- if you care..
Yeah I figured comp at the analyst level would be the same, but it's really more about interest for me at this point. My resume completely screams liberal arts/political science so I seriously am freaking out that I might be in this quant role... Guess it's my fault for not networking more aggressively after the offer/before the desk placements...
Sales&Trading at BB (Originally Posted: 09/19/2011)
Is it possible to start a career jn S&T at a BB lik GS JPM in Washington ,dc
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