Best S&T desks for non-STEM/CS background

I am interested in the sales and trading industry, and am looking into which desks would be good for me. However, as the title states, I am an econ/history major at a top liberal arts school, and am not a super quant heavy person (compared to those with math/CS/physics degrees). My interests lie in fixed-income products, particularly credit and rates products, and am hoping to go to a HF (global macro). The following are some of the things I am wondering about, and it would be great if you all could give me some support. This is all regarding sell-side BB desks

  1. How good at math do you need to be to become a trader? I would consider myself to be okay at math, but I do not excel in any way. I realize this question is mostly desk-dependent, but I'd like to get a better sense of what the expectations are. If it's a rates/macro trading desk, will it still require deeper math/CS background? How technical are the interviews?
  2. How much better/worse are the exit opps for the sales side compared to the trading side at BBs?
  3. Which of the following would be the best fit for me given everything else in this post?
    1. Credit (IG/HY)
    2. Commodities
    3. Rates (STIR, etc.)
    4. EM
    5. Equities (how much easier/harder is the equities side?)

Thank you!

7 Comments
 

For someone with a non-STEM/CS background and an interest in fixed-income products like credit and rates, here’s what you need to know based on the most helpful WSO content:

1. Math Expectations for Traders

  • Rates/Macro Trading Desks: While these desks are more quantitative than some others, you don’t need to be a math genius. You should be comfortable with running models, using a calculator, and understanding basic quantitative concepts like Black-Scholes (though it’s not used often). The ability to interpret and act on economic data is more critical than deep mathematical expertise.
  • Credit Trading: This is less math-intensive compared to rates. It often involves relative value analysis and understanding credit spreads, which are more about market intuition and fundamental analysis than hardcore math.
  • Equities: Fundamental analysis is key here, and it’s less quant-heavy than rates or macro trading. This could be a good fit if you’re less comfortable with math.

2. Technicality of Interviews

  • Interviews for trading roles will test your market knowledge, ability to think on your feet, and basic quantitative skills. For rates/macro desks, expect questions on economic indicators, yield curves, and interest rate movements. For credit, you might be asked about credit spreads, bond pricing, and relative value.

3. Sales vs. Trading Exit Opportunities

  • Sales: Sales roles are relationship-driven and can lead to managerial positions on the sell-side. They are less technical but require strong interpersonal skills. Exit opportunities to the buy-side are less common compared to trading.
  • Trading: Trading roles, especially on macro desks, have better exit opportunities to hedge funds (e.g., global macro funds). The skills you develop in trading—market analysis, risk management, and execution—are highly transferable to the buy-side.

4. Best Desk Fit for You

Based on your background and interests: - Credit (IG/HY): A strong fit for someone with an econ/history background. It’s less quant-heavy and focuses on fundamental analysis and relative value. This desk also offers decent exit opportunities to credit-focused hedge funds. - Rates (STIR, etc.): While more quant-heavy than credit, it’s still manageable if you’re comfortable with basic math and economic concepts. Rates desks are highly macro-focused, aligning well with your interest in global macro hedge funds. - Commodities: This can be a good option if you’re interested in physical markets and supply-demand dynamics. It’s less quant-heavy but requires a strong understanding of the underlying markets. - Equities: Easier to break into compared to fixed income, but the exit opportunities to global macro hedge funds are less aligned with your stated goals.

5. Additional Tips

  • If you’re aiming for a global macro hedge fund, prioritize desks that are macro-focused, like rates or credit.
  • Consider gaining some technical skills (e.g., VBA or Python) to enhance your profile, as programming knowledge is becoming increasingly valuable even on sales desks.

In summary, Credit and Rates desks seem to be the best fit for your background and goals. They align with your interest in fixed-income products and offer strong exit opportunities to global macro hedge funds.

Sources: S&T Summer Analyst Lateral to IB FT?, HELP: The Future of the S&T Job Market and Selecting the Right Desk, Conversation with an Equities Sales Trader, Best Desks for Sell-Side Trader --> Buy-Side Macro PM, Q&A: MBB, BB S&T+IB, Top MBA, US/Global

I'm an AI bot trained on the most helpful WSO content across 17+ years.
 
Most Helpful
  1. "Math mindset" almost certainly helps. For example, when you play poker, you don't do anything more than basic probability, but a good poker player will generally have good comfort with numbers. Some trading desks require knowledge of regression/light ML, but this isn't of great emphasis on the sell-side. Interviews are not standardized. I've been asked everything ranging from who is in charge of the Fed to having to explain properties of loss functions.
  2. I don't know for sure, but my intuition suggests worse for sales than it is for traders at the junior level. As you progress in your career, I assume it becomes slightly easier for sales. Traders seem to exit at any level.
  3. Your specific desks:
    1. IG credit could be a good fit provided it isn't systematic credit trading. HY as well since that tends to be a little closer to analyzing the fundamentals of the company.
    2. Commodities varies by desk. I've seen everything ranging from super quanty guys to really relationship focused desks.
    3. If you aren't confident in your math skills, I'd doubt you end up on a rates desk. At least one that exits well.
    4. EM is possibly a good fit depending on if it's EM credit.
    5. Equities is much harder since most of equities has been electronified. As a result, a bank's edge is in its algorithms and execution. You need to have a strong quantitative background, more so if you want to exit to equity vol or arb funds. Sales-traders and prime exist on the equities side, which may be a fit, but I'd peg that as more sales.

Overall, if you're looking to exit out of sell side S&T, I think there is pretty good correlation between quantitative skills and exits. The difference maker in sell side trading is primarily risk management and pricing strategies. For most products, this means math. I'd recommend looking at IG/HY/distressed credit as places to start off since that skillset is closer to accounting/fundamentals. Whatever rates risk exists is usually hedged off.

 

Thanks for your reply. I now have the following questions.

  1. Do you think that it's better to try to start off as a trader at a middle market bank (say BNP, Mizuho, etc.) or sales at the top BBs (GS, MS, JPM)? How much does "prestige" matter for S&T? From my understanding, prestige seems to matter a lot more on the IBD side, but how true is this? Is it only how well tht particular desk exits?
  2. Is it better to pick a product and get a good understanding of that product, and try to place at that desk? Or just get any offer you can at the best possible banks?
  3. How different are the exit opps for IG vs. HY? IG seems to have higher traditional prestige, but HY seems more interesting. 

Thanks in advance!

 
  1. My (personal) opinion throughout the recruiting process was yes. I would be willing to accept guaranteed trader positions at lower-tier banks in lieu of prestige at better banks (but worse desk fit). Other people have differing opinions, but I personally think its easier to move around desks at banks outside the top BBs, and it is always better to trade a product you are interested in vs doing some job for the "prestige". On a side note, lots of experienced traders go to so called middle market banks to build a book and prime themselves for an exit to a HF.
  2. Step 1: get an offer. Step 2: get an understanding of products you are interested in. Step 3: network and try to place urself on that desk.
  3. HY is more interesting. IG non systematic is probably akin to sales-trading on the equities side. Just pushing buttons. But, I don't actually know much about credit trading. People from IG also move to HY. If you're interested in HY, get yourself on any public credit desk you can.
 

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