MS Fixed Income SA offer pivot options?
I just received an offer for MS Fixed Income 2025 SA program, but I'm not really sure that FI is for me—looking for advice on if I'm nailed into a FI coffin long term given that I'm doing a PE internship this summer in NYC and am more interested in IB type work/IB exit opportunities.
I got to visit the firm and really like MS/really liked all the FI people, but the trading floor just kind of freaked me out. Anyone know anything about MS's rotational program? What are the odds of getting into that? I don't want to do FI for summer 2025 if that's going to irreparably pigeonhole me, but I also am so tired of the recruiting scene and accepting an offer would take a lot of weight off my shoulders. Would appreciate any thoughts or advice!
Isn't MS's S&T SA rotational? Never heard of a "fixed income" SA (except fixed income research).
If you wanted to do IB, it is slightly confusing why you landed in an S&T role.
It is rotational but intra FID or IED. Offers are for one or the other.
Ah that isn't how it works in London
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Hey Congrats first of all. Just curious did you interview for regular round or diversity round?
Thanks, it was diversity rounds with a superday
I frankly disagree with all of the comments above. Coming as someone who is a few years ahead of you in FID, I can tell you definitively, focus on getting the FT offer and you'll be fine. MS is really good when it comes to mobility and there are structured programs to rotate groups as you mentioned, which is competitive but very accessible if you are a performing analyst. MS is also very good when it comes to Credit / Securitized Products / Macro HF exits, Citadel especially. Take a few individuals in my class as an example:
Individual #1: FID Lending -> MS IB -> MF PE
Individual #2: Credit Trading -> Distressed -> MF RE Credit
Individual #3: Credit Sales -> Credit Research -> Credit HF
Individual #4: Commodities -> MS IB -> Blackrock/PIMCO
Individual #5: Macro Sales -> MS IB -> Boutique IB
Individual #6: FID Lending -> Politics -> Boutique IB -> Private Credit
Individual #7: Macro Trading -> Boutique IB
Appreciate the inside info. Would love to know your thoughts on IED and IED v FID comparison beyond the obvious product differences! As well as mobility between IED/FID.
I think you should compare IED vs FID as a function of your skillset and interests, rather than anything else. Obviously, MS was a top equities house for the longest time, so that could possibly be a consideration, but otherwise it comes down to a few questions.
Do you want sales or trading? If the latter, can you code, and not only code, but code very well? If you can't, equities trading might not be a good fit. In fact, the internship is bifurcated between sales and trading for that very reason.
What are my interests in terms of Macro vs Micro and Quantitative vs Qualitative? Thinking of roles as a quadrant of Micro vs Macro and Quantitative vs Qualitative, I would said there are seats in each box in each division, but generally, if you have a strong interest in micro (i.e. individual credit analysis), there are a whole number of seats available to you in FID, whereas in IED, you may be looking at only Single Name Options. Also, roles in equities, especially trading roles, tend to be much more quantitative as a whole but of course, there are quantitative macro trading or structuring seats in FID. It is up to you to know where your interests are.
Where do you want to go? Just as you need to do IB to get to PE, there are certain pivots that are near impossible out of FID or IED. If you want to do L/S equities or equities vol at a multi-strat, IED is the way to go, whereas if you want to go to a macro or credit shop, or private credit, FID is the way to go. Important thing to note is that there are places to go from both. Despite what the sophomoric intern will tell you, IB isn't the only place with exits.
As for moving between IED and FID, it happens on occasion on an ad-hoc basis and the rotational program does allow for it, but less frequently than moves from IED/FID to GCM/Research/IBD.
Thanks for your insight, very helpful to see those career paths mapped out. Do you have an idea of what percentage of FID summer interns get a FT return offer?
How easy would you say it is to do mobility as an analyst? Know a few who have done it but not really sure what those programs are or how they work.
If you're a solid analyst and your team likes you, you can move. Almost everyone in my class moved in some form or fashion. You have to put some time in (~6m), but if you're productive, the bank will want you to stay.
did individual#2 move to distressed credit trading or investment? and did he become a trader in the HF or analyst?
Internal move from credit trading to distressed desk by doing well on his first desk and conveying an interest to move.
Thanks for your insight, very helpful to see those career paths mapped out. Do you have an idea of what percentage of FID summer interns get a FT return offer?
Depends on year. I think MS tends not to over hire like other banks so between 55-80% depending on caliber on analysts and head count.
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