So I recently got asked if I would do a Q&A in a thread I posted on but declined due to having a unique background and not wanting to be found off-line. But the recent thread by @Nefarious- reminded me of the people that have helped me get to where I am at. So as I mentioned above I'm not really too willing to discuss the time I spent between graduating UG and starting at my EB. I have been in Finance job(s) since graduating. I'll say that I was a lateral hire and didn't go through the OCR process. The term non-target is often used loosely, to which I counter with this. My school ad ~2,000 students and the only employer that came on campus was Enterprise Rent-a-car. A large majority of kids I graduated with are working in bars, department stores, etc. My approach:
-Learn, work experience, and network 1. Learn As I mentioned elsewhere I really enjoy finance and I enjoy what I do so I'm actually passionate when I talk to people and am interviewing. My approach to finance has always been to learn as much as possible. I didn't approach the process as "studying technicals for months". I approached my career with the mindset of trying to learn as much as possible which included (and continues to include) reading textbooks, white papers on tax issues, bankruptcy filings, etc. 2. Work experience it sounds dumb and cliche but just get a job. Don't be that guy living on your mom's couch waiting for GS to call you back, take the position at the boutique. 3. Network its really not a secret and there are already a ton of threads about it. The only thing I will echo that's been said before is that it comes down to determination and perseverance. I botched interviews at 2 HFs one in the first round and the other in the final, a PE fund, and a couple of IBs one coming to mind was a Rothschild/LAZ/Houlihan Rx interview for an Associate position. I actually the interview for my current shop through a connection of a guy I had a call with. When networking remember... The purpose of this "network" isn't just to get you your first job. Stay in touch, and build an actual network of friends and colleagues who will go to bat for you. I still talk to a lot of the people I have had calls with and met because I want to be able to maintain that relationship for the future in case I need to make a call or hopefully I can help them with something. So feel free to ask away... EXCEPT about my prior work experience (other than the IT internship which isn't on my resume/linkedin so I felt like sharing).
That's really baller you got those type of interviews with those academic credentials. Congrats man. Where are you located?
thanks for posting this, will put it on the frontpage a couple times this week
This seems like it would be a key part of your story.......
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No questions, but major props on your hustle.
Do you mind going into the specifics of your networking efforts?
Always make it a point to ask for advice before asking for help. Also people dont like to be put on the spot its awkward. Always be genuine and always listen to what people have to say.
At one point I even reconnected with ppl I had interviewed with. This was actually HUGE for me in terms of connections and advice. I got solid feedback on what I did/do well and things I struggled with as well as an offer to help me out.
Though I used the word connections it has never been a goal to network and create connections. I really want to get to know people and as I mentioned keep in contact with mowt of the people I have met along the way.
One thing that I personally struggle with as an undergrad is, how do you stay in touch with someone after the first (few) networking call/coffee chat without looking to pushy/needy?
I recognize that I network to build a long lasting relationship, but how do i cultivate that relationship without looking like I am trying to milk my contact for whatever resource that they have?
Can you talk about applying for internships after having graduated? And it sounds like after having a full time job as well.
Also where do you find these "textbooks, white papers on tax issues, bankruptcy filings, etc."? Link to any that are particularly interesting please.
Congrats on the job and thanks for doing this AMA.
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I try to take the same broad and organic approach to learning and self-educating myself. How do you keep all your reading material organized? I find I add more, every day, to the list I want to read than the things I actually do read or even could read.
Thanks and congratulations!
Thanks again!
Thanks for doing this, Also non target, low GPA, did not retain anything related to accounting/ finance from college.
Can you talk more about your experience with networking? Did you wait until you were more knowledgeable about the industry and technical finance questions?
I tried to network out of college and it did not go too well. I sort of ask questions about their job and such.. then ran out of things to talk about / didn't know what type of advice to ask for because I didnt know what I was looking for, let alone what were out there. Did you have a similar experience?
Also how do you stay in touch with your contacts? I have no idea what to talk about.. lol.. ___((((just read your reply this this.))))
Hopefully these questions are not that bad.
Ok, thanks
How do you keep in contact with your networks that arent alumni?
I think one time I sent an article to an alumni about how China is trading pandas for gold or something..
that great. To everyone asking how ge got those interviews with that GPA. You have bad attention to detail, and missed a small acronym "NCAA D1".
I just wanted to clear that up. congrats OP.
You throw up the white flag and say why... at that point its a case by case basis. Either the guy will understand or he will dig in and ding you. Making excuses or defending your gpa will just sink you quicker. You cant talk a guy who has interviewed who knows how many people to believe your spin on why a 2.X doesnt matter.
Hi, thanks for this post !! One question, if i have a low gpa, which is the best explanation in the fit interview. if the recruiter not ask me anything in relation to gpa but I wrote in the documents in the office of recruitment before the interview, i should say something to avoid the cut off?? how I can explain it, or do not say anything about my grede Thank you
Ive gone through interviews where they dont even ask what it is. I got invited back for the next round at a small PE Fund ($300mm aum) even after multiple interviewers asked about my gpa. Ive also been dinged when it never came up. The GPA is ONE data point. If you can rock an interview and its evident you really understand what you are talking about (not just memorized an interview guide), that you are passionate and genuine, and also that you really WANT to be at the firm you are interviewing at.
"Wrote the document" means that when you get called for the first round, before having the interview with hr you are asked to fill all the personal information including education and also the gpa degree. if the recruiter not ask me anything in relation to gpa during the interview, i should say something about the low gpa? Because otherwise there may be a risk tha when the hr after the interview, watching mydocuments and see a low gpa could refuse me, maybe if I explain something is better? how can you avoid the hr? even if with the network you get an interview, you will need to pass the first round with HR Thank you
"Wrote the document" means that when you get called for the first round, before having the interview with hr you are asked to fill all the personal information including education and also the gpa degree. if the recruiter not ask me anything in relation to gpa during the interview, i should say something about the low gpa? Because otherwise there may be a risk tha when the hr after the interview, watching mydocuments and see a low gpa could refuse me, maybe if I explain something is better? how can you avoid the hr? even if with the network you get an interview, you will need to pass the first round with HR Thank you
I respect your hustle, I am in somewhat of a similar situation myself trying to break in post grad. Since you were a lateral, were you off cycle and did that mean you didnt have a formal training program and started off without any actual IB experience? Once you got interviews, was it difficult explaining to the company why you wanted to leave your job to work in IB? Last one, once you had your network established, did you just wait for someone to contact you saying "hey theres an opportunity here" or did you check in periodically and asked about any potential opportunities?
Yes I have never gone through the formal training program.. but my last job was a lot of dcfs and report writing and my 1st job was a lot of debt stuff so I had a compelling story about the experience I do have and how it transfers over.
In terms of reaching out to people.. I never stopped, up until the point where I got my offer and I reached out to people to let them know and thank them for their help. I got a couple buddies reach out about an Analyst spot at a BB and an associate spot at an upper MM firm but they werent what I was looking for so I said thanks and passed because A) it wasnt something I wanted so I knew the "why x?" And "why here?" Just wouldnt be compelling so why bother. B) id hasically start networking to leave that job as soon as I hit the door and that looks just as pad if not worse.
Edit: I actually had a call with an MD on black friday because his schedule got crushed and he sent me an email saying "are you free now?" So I took a call from the changing room at a department store in a mall.
Thanks for doing this. Question- about how many years after graduation before you landed this IB Gig? I"m just wondering because I'm about 25 now and I'm worried that my age will work against me when trying to break into IB.
Thanks for doing this. Question- about how many years after graduation before you landed this IB Gig? I"m just wondering because I'm about 25 now and I'm worried that my age will work against me when trying to break into IB.
Thanks for doing this. Question- about how many years after graduation before you landed this IB Gig? I"m just wondering because I'm about 25 now and I'm worried that my age will work against me when trying to break into IB.
Thank you for doing this! Can you talk about your routine for reading textbooks -- did you do the problems in them and the quizzes or did you just read through them like a regular book?
What are your plans post your current role -- do you plan on being a career banker or moving into the PE/HF space or getting an MBA? Or doing something different?
Im really interested in distressed investing so Im in the process of trying to learn more about the space. That said Im putting my head down through bonuses before I start actively networking or talking to headhunters. IB isnt "hard" and I think most guys in IB or PE would agree. Its a learned skill. The first time you run an acc/dil or go through a sell-side process you are clumsy and its foreign to you, but give it 6 months to a year and its 2nd nature (for the most part). I really want to get to that point and get a couple projects, models, etc under my belt before I test the waters.
That said, Im STOKED to be where Im at and if I dont like what I see or find on the buyside Id have no problem sticking around at my current bank.
Thanks for the quick response! That's refreshing to know that folks in their mid-twenties can still break into IB... Another question- how did you respond when asked about your 2.7 GPA? For lower GPAs, would you recommend taking the GMAT with the aim of scoring north of 720 in order to demonstrate that you're more intelligent than what your low GPA might imply? Or, would you recommend saving those couple months of studying and just hit the ground running with aggressive networking? Thx in advance!
Thanks for the quick response! That's refreshing to know that folks in their mid-twenties can still break into IB... Another question- how did you respond when asked about your 2.7 GPA? For lower GPAs, would you recommend taking the GMAT with the aim of scoring north of 720 in order to demonstrate that you're more intelligent than what your low GPA might imply? Or, would you recommend saving those couple months of studying and just hit the ground running with aggressive networking? Thx in advance!
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Agree 100% about school/exams being beatable, and I'm glad you were able to prove the doubters wrong. I was only asking because I'm in a similar situation. The thing is- I know that during these networking meet-ups, GPA is probably going to come up at one point or another.. I'm trying to understand the best way to explain it- be upfront and say that you were immature a couple years ago, but now you're a different person. Or, try and come up with a believable excuse? Another thing is if i'm doing an informational meet-up with someone and he/she finds out about my low GPA, I'm worried they'll (falsely) assume i'm just dumb and won't be willing to bat for me. If on my resume, I have a low GPA but at least have a 760 gmat score then they'll have at least some "ammo" to go bat for me and refer me to their colleagues... Congrats again though man, that's the ultimate hustle that ppl on here really respect... I appreciate your feedback. Anyone else with experience on this feel free to chime in as well. Thx.
Agree 100% about school/exams being beatable, and I'm glad you were able to prove the doubters wrong. I was only asking because I'm in a similar situation. The thing is- I know that during these networking meet-ups, GPA is probably going to come up at one point or another.. I'm trying to understand the best way to explain it- be upfront and say that you were immature a couple years ago, but now you're a different person. Or, try and come up with a believable excuse? Another thing is if i'm doing an informational meet-up with someone and he/she finds out about my low GPA, I'm worried they'll (falsely) assume i'm just dumb and won't be willing to bat for me. If on my resume, I have a low GPA but at least have a 760 gmat score then they'll have at least some "ammo" to go bat for me and refer me to their colleagues... Congrats again though man, that's the ultimate hustle that ppl on here really respect... I appreciate your feedback. Anyone else with experience on this feel free to chime in as well. Thx.
Agree 100% about school/exams being beatable, and I'm glad you were able to prove the doubters wrong. I was only asking because I'm in a similar situation. The thing is- I know that during these networking meet-ups, GPA is probably going to come up at one point or another.. I'm trying to understand the best way to explain it- be upfront and say that you were immature a couple years ago, but now you're a different person. Or, try and come up with a believable excuse? Another thing is if i'm doing an informational meet-up with someone and he/she finds out about my low GPA, I'm worried they'll (falsely) assume i'm just dumb and won't be willing to bat for me. If on my resume, I have a low GPA but at least have a 760 gmat score then they'll have at least some "ammo" to go bat for me and refer me to their colleagues... Congrats again though man, that's the ultimate hustle that ppl on here really respect... I appreciate your feedback. Anyone else with experience on this feel free to chime in as well. Thx.
Agree 100% about school/exams being beatable, and I'm glad you were able to prove the doubters wrong. I was only asking because I'm in a similar situation. The thing is- I know that during these networking meet-ups, GPA is probably going to come up at one point or another.. I'm trying to understand the best way to explain it- be upfront and say that you were immature a couple years ago, but now you're a different person. Or, try and come up with a believable excuse? Another thing is if i'm doing an informational meet-up with someone and he/she finds out about my low GPA, I'm worried they'll (falsely) assume i'm just dumb and won't be willing to bat for me. If on my resume, I have a low GPA but at least have a 760 gmat score then they'll have at least some "ammo" to go bat for me and refer me to their colleagues... Congrats again though man, that's the ultimate hustle that ppl on here really respect... I appreciate your feedback. Anyone else with experience on this feel free to chime in as well. Thx.
Ok, gotcha... Next question- how many months of networking did you put in before you landed your IB gig? Also, what are your thoughts on extracurriculars (i.e. student mentor, junior board member, high school basketball coach, etc)? Thx again.
Congratulations and thanks for doing this. You mentioned perseverance which is really not understood among the larger group. How did you prepare yourself mentally when facing the odds?
In order to succeed you can't get jaded by the process or down. Not saying I didnt sulk into a corner with a bottle of Bombay Sapphire (@DickFuld) but you have to clean the slate and keep going
Living the dream man... Do you still get to workout or go to the bars on the weekend? Also, how helpful was WSO and/or M&I during all this?
In terms of working out... not really
Congratulations, man. I hope you are doing great in NYC.
In terms of keeping in touch, how often do you follow up with the people that were willing to have an initial phone call / in person meeting with you?
Thanks man. Best of luck with work and hope you have a wonderful 2015.
double post
So I'm curious, assuming if they asked you..."why is your GPA so low", what was your response?
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really inspiring to see stories like this! Sb'd
Really good job my man! I hope you keep finding success along your way.
Have you had to explain a low GPA at an interview? People keep telling me that I am screwed. I have a similar backround to yours. I just recently had my GPA move down to a 2.0. I have contacts but they are saying that all analyst classes are full. I have two prior finance internships one in investment management and the other as a financial advisor. How can I bypass the whole low GPA thing in a way that I can shine and make their company look good.
Have you had to explain a low GPA at an interview? People keep telling me that I am screwed. I have a similar backround to yours. I just recently had my GPA move down to a 2.0. I have contacts but they are saying that all analyst classes are full. I have two prior finance internships one in investment management and the other as a financial advisor. How can I bypass the whole low GPA thing in a way that I can shine and make their company look good.
everyone needs their own unique story.
Just posted a question to the Bullpen and here you are with a ton of answers. Awesome thread. Are you planning on moving into the buy-side after EBIB. If so and if you've been in contact with HHs. What has your experience been? How have they perceived your experienced, off-cycle profile?
Thanks for doing this. Previously people have asked about how you've been keeping in contact with these people after the initial meeting but your comments were all "deleted to hide". Is it okay if you can answer the question still without exposing yourself too much? Also, what is the best way to do informational interviews if I'm a girl? Would grabbing coffee or going out for drinks looks a bit like dating? Thx in advance for any answers.
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