Any info about Deloitte Corporate Finance?

It is IB but Big 4 call it CF

Comp is below market and the gap widens as you gain experience (particularly from a bonus standpoint). Hours are better though and Charlotte is one of the better places with its McColl legacy office. Not sure I'd say it was good training to move into BB.

Takingacrack:

oes anyone know anything about Deloittes inv banking arm?

They do IB? I had no idea.

First, I only have knowledge of Chicago's Deloitte corp. finance practice... it wreaks, culture wise. If you're going to go Big 4 for corporate finance/valuation - better off to puruse KPMG or E&Y.

The specific thing I heard about the Deloitte culture is that management is not very accessible to coach/professionally develop, professional review process is extremely political and inconsistent with regard to promotions and pay raises, work not very challenging. Just what I've heard from peers who've lateraled out of Deloitte into other roles.

I would assume the pay to be much less than traditional IB (even middle market). From a comp standpoint, I would assume to be a hybrid of i-banking and audit. Any thoughts out there?

nt

don't let the naysayers tell you otherwise--while maybe not as "prestigious" as traditional investment banks, big 4 corporate finance practices do the same work as investment banks. the only difference is that they focus more on middle-market clients.

if you actually take time to look at the league tables past the top 10, you'll actually see that some of these big 4 corporate finance practices do pretty well in terms of deal flow.

i think it actually speaks quite well to the quality of these practices that rudy guiliani (of guiliani capital advisors) actually bought out e&y's corporate finance practice in order to give his firm some legitimacy.

GIULIANI PARTNERS FORMS GIULIANI CAPITAL ADVISORS AND MAKES STRATEGIC ACQUISITION Firm provides investment banking solutions and independent advice to business leaders

December 1, 2004 - New York, NY. Rudolph W. Giuliani and Giuliani Partners LLC today announced the formation of Giuliani Capital Advisors LLC, a firm that will provide investment banking solutions and independent advice to leaders dealing with complex business challenges, strategic transactions or financial distress.

"Giuliani Capital Advisors enables us to provide key financial advisory solutions to the business community complementing our other services," said Mr. Giuliani, who is Chairman and CEO of Giuliani Partners LLC, a management consulting firm, and parent company of Giuliani Capital Advisors. "At Giuliani Partners, we advise companies dealing with high-level strategic challenges. Often the solution involves a combination of changes including one or more transactions. These transactions may involve the sale of all or a part of the business, an acquisition to accelerate growth, or the restructuring of debt or equity."

"We are putting together a great team of seasoned executives from the financial community to work closely with business leaders on critical transaction issues," Mr. Giuliani added.

Coinciding with the launch of Giuliani Capital Advisors, the firm announced the acquisition of Ernst & Young corporate finance LLC ("EYCF"). EYCF has executives and staff in six offices throughout the United States (New York, Chicago, Atlanta, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Troy, MI). "The EYCF executives will maintain their existing client relationships, continuing to grow the business in their current locations and forming the backbone of Giuliani Capital Advisors," said Mr. Giuliani. Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

Steven D. Oesterle, Managing Director at Giuliani Partners since January 1, 2003, serves as Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Giuliani Capital Advisors. Mr. Oesterle is a former Vice Chairman of Ernst & Young LLP, where his responsibilities included management of the firm's corporate finance practice.

"I welcome my former colleagues from EYCF to Giuliani Capital Advisors," said Mr. Oesterle. "We look forward to providing our clients with the expertise of this talented and experienced group."

James S. Turley, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Ernst & Young LLP, said, "The sale of Ernst & Young corporate finance LLC is part of our on-going commitment to refocus on our core businesses - auditing, tax and transaction advisory services. The acquisition also enables members of the corporate finance LLC to join together with Giuliani Partners in the continued growth of their business."

About Giuliani Capital Advisors LLC: Giuliani Capital Advisors provides investment banking solutions and independent advice to leaders dealing with complex business challenges, strategic transactions or financial distress. The company is guided by the Giuliani Leadership Principles: Integrity, Objectivity, Loyalty, Creativity, and Accountability. The firm has offices in New York, Chicago, Atlanta, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Troy, MI.

Further information about Giuliani Capital Advisors is located on the following site: www.giulianicapitaladvisors.com

About Giuliani Partners LLC: Giuliani Partners LLC is a management consulting firm dedicated to helping leaders solve critical strategic issues, accelerate growth, and enhance the reputation and brand of their organizations in the context of strongly held values.

Further information about Giuliani Partners LLC is located on the following site: www.giulianipartners.com

there is no e&y corporate finance practice any longer

Thank you.

• edit - apparently either wrong or people don't like the truth, probably a mix of both

and bonuses wreak. ke18sb has it right.

The valuation exposure these folks really get is related to financial reporting valuation engagements such as SFAS 141, SFAS 142, SFAS 123 for stock option analysis etc.

The "transaction services" group at a KPMG for example more closely resembles M&A advisory work at an IB.

you're confusing transaction advisory services (which is higher level auditing, etc.) with corporate finance which is the same thing bankers do. with the exception of e&y which sold its corp fin practice to giuliani, all big 4 firms have both.

to prove my point, here are the 2006 ytd league tables for WORLDWIDE COMPLETED M&A transactions copied and pasted straight off of thomson financial.

the metrics are rank/advisor/deal volume/market share/number of deals.

simply put, kmpg corp fin wouldn't be number 25 if all they did was value stock options.

1 Goldman Sachs & Co 607,455.20 28.9 280 2 JP Morgan 520,063.80 24.8 265 3 Morgan Stanley 506,284.20 24.1 246 4 UBS 390,237.70 18.6 252 5 Citigroup 389,067.00 18.5 238 6 Merrill Lynch & Co Inc 368,953.50 17.6 188 7 Lehman Brothers 311,971.10 14.9 159 8 Deutsche Bank AG 274,501.20 13.1 174 9 Credit Suisse 248,305.20 11.8 221 10 Lazard 226,094.90 10.8 148 11 Rothschild 194,211.30 9.3 238 12 Bear Stearns & Co Inc 189,578.90 9.0 51 13 Banc of America Securities LLC 136,692.30 6.5 70 14 BNP Paribas SA 93,317.80 4.4 92 15 Wachovia Corp 75,358.00 3.6 46 16 HSBC Holdings PLC 74,126.20 3.5 50 17 Evercore Partners 73,297.00 3.5 24 18 Macquarie Bank 69,325.90 3.3 67 19 Houlihan Lokey Howard & Zukin 67,037.00 3.2 104 20 Dresdner Kleinwort 65,015.00 3.1 56 21 ABN AMRO 59,811.80 2.9 98 22 Blackstone Group LP 56,377.70 2.7 25 23 CIBC World Markets Inc 51,770.10 2.5 52 24 Keefe Bruyette & Woods Inc 42,787.00 2.0 51 25 KPMG corporate finance 42,571.00 2.0 298

additionally, here's something cut and pasted straight from the PwC website:

Transactions

Print-friendly version Email to a colleague

We are well-known in the marketplace for our knowledge and experience in all types of financial transactions:

* Mergers and acquisition - We focus on the deal continuum from strategy through execution to post deal integration, including financial and operational due diligence, accessing the capital markets and valuing, negotiating and structuring deals.

* Strategic and valuation advice 

KPMG does more deals than anyone... the volumes are simply smaller. thus, it is possible to get deal flow out of big 4 corp fin; just not sure how "quality" the deals would be.

thus, if you can't get into a traditional bank, this may be a good way to get your foot in the door. pay is a lot less, but you can always learn what you need to learn and lateral.

at the end of the day your working at a company known for accounting and audit, if you want to work in finance work at a financial instituation

TAS is more outsourcing DD type activities to support deals and work on micro caps (at least in europe). KPMG corp fin does a LOT of M&A work, not corp fin lite, but all aspects of the deal, just putting $mm instead of $bn into the old financial models. They're actively seeking to expand this aspect of their operation and are trying to hire/ entice people with IB experience accordingly. I heard that they want to move from #25 to the top ten.

Monkey_Island, break it down, spoon feed it to me. Where does KPMG corporate finance fall in KPMG's overall org. chart? e.g. Economic & Valuation Services are part of "Tax" and then there's Transaction Advisory Services etc.

I'm just confused, tired and useless this morning.

KMPG has a FAS (Financial Advisory Services) practice, an audit practice, and a tax practice.

FAS consists of corporate finance (M&A), Transaction Services, Restructuring, and Forensic Services.

Also, as to ke18sb's comment, you're right. But unfortunately, not everyone is as lucky as you or me in being able to land "real" financial institution banking positions.

Thus, I'm not going to be so pompous and elitist as to dismiss KMPG entirely. On a deal basis, the firm still does more deals than any other bank, and it's also ranked far above many respectable boutiques such as Weisel, Greenhill, etc.

I am NOT saying that KPMG has a better reputation; only that in terms of actual number of deals, they do more. Thus, for someone who didn't have other options, this is a good way to get a foot in the door--after all, that's what this board is all about (helping people get their feet in the door).

Thanks for the break-down.

Alright, this is where I say time and again one has to really look at position descriptions closely and also note where a position falls within a firm's org. structure.

"corporate finance" simply doesn't translate across firms. Much in the same way that a "portfolio manager" role doesn't translate across firms.

At a lot of the Big 4, it was my understanding that corporate finance refers to financial reporting valuation work, e.g. purchase price allocations, goodwill impairment testing etc. Similarly, I perceived transaction advisory services to more closely resemble M&A advisory.

Your clarification above was very helpful to me and perhaps a lot of other folks out there. Thanks.

Have you seen folks go from KPMG's FAS or even its Economic & Valuation practice into a BB IB or MM IB later on?

the answer is yes. a few even make it into private equity. not the apaxes, apollos, kkrs, tpgs, carlyles, madison dearborns, cdrs, vestars, etc. of the world, but decent, respectable smaller-to-mid-sized shops.

you may never make it anywhere where prestige "whorism" rules the day, but if you know your stuff and interview well, i can almost but guarantee you that someone will pick you up.

remember that the hardest part about banking is getting the foot in the door initially. after that, whether you be working at shitbag bank or top tier white shoe firm, it's easier to lateral.

in fact, one of the best kept secrets on the street is how well Wachovia kids (and i'm not a wachovia alum by the way) place into private equity. at the end of the day, it's not about the bank--it's about you, your skills, and what you can bring. in those cases, being with a bank with good deal flow helps, but good deal flow on its own doesn't mean crap.

stay away from those places. they will steal all of your creative power and make you want to wear business casual.

can a system analyst switch into other areas of deloitte like business analyst or corp finance>?

At KPMG, they have their own Corp Fin unit. But M&A work at KPMG is done by Transaction Services. Deal flow is definitely stronger at KPMG, because they are not pitching. They are working on deals that are going to market. TS is expanding rapidly, not Corp Fin. Because to get a Big 4 to help out with deal work is a lot cheaper than another bank. Advisory at KPMG also encompasses many more business lines than what was previously mentioned.

People have definitely jumped shop to ibanks. Few have jumped over to Carlyle, but most will be like what Monkey Island mentioned. But that will depend on which office you work out of.

Big 4 usually allows for more mobility in their firm, because they want to keep their human capital.

Anyone interivewed with Big 4 corp fin group before and would like to share their experience? Thanks.

Do the Big4 need you to obtain a CPA at some point if you want to do Crop. Fin.?