Argus DCF
Through my real estate MS program, I've been granted access to Argus DCF for $99. I've never really needed it in my line of work (my organizations have been heavy users of Excel modeling and proprietary databases), but I'd be interested in learning it for possible future endeavors (in 2 1/2 to 4 years).
From what I understand, Argus DCF is being phased out in favor of Argus Enterprise. Is there any benefit to learning DCF or are DCF and Enterprise so radically different that it would be a waste of time?
It doesn't take too long to learn DCF, I would recommend it. Everyone is pushing back against AE so it may be a while
AE will still include DCF in reasonably the same format, its just a more holistic product.
AE is better in my opinion, but DCF is the industry standard. Brokers, lenders, principals, etc are still using DCF for the most part. May take a few years (if ever) before everyone is using AE.
I prefer DCF.
Just model a couple of deals in Argus and you'll learn quickly. AE is a complete disaster so I wouldn't worry about that. SHB, how does AE include DCF in the same format? Have you tried migrating a 50 tenant office building from DCF 15 to AE , it's a total mess.
I personally like how it turns each MLA into 5 MLAs so your 50 turn into 250, really easy to sort through
I wouldn't be surprised if the DCF software is still in widespread use in 2.5 years. For $99 bucks, why not?
Absolutely get it for $99 and toggle around with it. AE keeps getting pushed off again and again. I've never even seen AE and I use DCF on a weekly basis.
I have both AE & DCF at the shop I work at...
No one seems to be down with the migration to AE.
I have both AE & DCF at the shop I work at...
No one seems to be down with the migration to AE.
Does anyone (or his/her company) have a DCF license they would be willing to sell?
I'm interested as well!
Unfortunately AE has a very different layout than DCf. I was frustrated in how difficult the transition was for me...and I know DCf very well. If I had to choose one going forward id go with AE. If your firm will be dealing with other institutional buyers where you'll be comparing argus or using it to verify numbers...id go with what the industry uses. From my experience, many still use DCF, not sure of the speed AE will be phased in...
I am well aware. I am close to getting the green light in hiring an analyst, but my shop only utilizes DCF, of which we only have 2 licenses. There are solutions, but the easiest would be to get another license, - only problem is I don't know where you could even buy them from (on a secondary market).
My company currently doesn't think the "shift" to AE will occur for a little while. Once we start seeing AE models vs. DCF in broker packages, we will switch over.
I thought DCF was supposed to be fully phased out this year or did they push that back again? Switching to AE was a pain for sure (who likes change?), but it is so much better than DCF.
I used to work for Altus, the parent company who acquired Argus. They are looking to phase in AE ASAP, so it would be smart to start learning AE.
I use DCF and would rather learn programming and build my own software than use that abomination of a program. Argus sales guys came to my shop trying to sell us AE and felt like throwing the bro out of the 38th floor window
This is why i've begun learning python in my free time, because CRE is in the stone ages
Every major brokerage shop is switching over by this July. JP Morgan is only using AE. It isn't that bad, I don't know why everyone is freaking out over it. I taught my boss how to use it in two hours and he is already making fine models. I make models on AE and DCF. The only thing that still needs to be worked out is the reimburse after function, which from what Argus said is being worked out.
They're freaking out because it's horrible software. Argus has admitted that AE still has quite a few bugs. Where did you hear that every major shop is switching over in July? I call BS. I have seen DCF file, let alone a deal which only offered AE.
Is it horrible? Meh not too bad once you understand their logic structure they put into it.
"Where did you hear that every major shop is switching over in July?" -I worked for Altus Group who owns Argus and literally everyone (AIG, JPM, WF, USAA, etc) is being super prodded to switch over. Yes there are conversion programs that change DCF models to AE models, but if shops want Argus support, they will have to switch over to AE.
So just so I'm understanding: your argument for why it is not horrible is that a) you worked for the firm who's best interest it is to push the product; b) they are forcing people to switch over (always a sign of a great product - when people don't organically/voluntarily adopt [sarcasm font]; and c) they have a logic structure that is counter-intuitive to possibly as low as 50% and as great as 80% of the people who use it?
Have you ever tried using it for anything extremely detailed like DRM's with multiple CAM pools and pass-through structures, tiered term overrides in the MLA's, development pro-formas (S-Curves, etc.)? It is extremely difficult for those items. The hotkeys are also a mess. There are a few hot key strings which are literally 5-8 steps longer than what they were previously. It's not the end of the world in a vacuum, but if you're looking at 50+ deals a week, it adds up.
I just took my AE certification exam yesterday and it was a walk in the park. I've spoken with guys at HFF, Jll, etc. and they are starting to use AE now.
@RE_FSU I absolutely agree with that. Many of the IS teams are transitioning over this summer to AE. I took an Argus test for JLL recently. It was on AE and no one knew how to use it so they couldn't even offer me advice. The analysts/associates told me that they'll transition to AE by September.
Interviewing with top brokerages in the southeast, almost all have recognized AE over DCF. The change is coming!
Maybe it's just me, but the few AE deals that I've seen, every file has been f'ed up in some way. I don't think the majority of people actually know how to use the software yet. I admit the layout is simpler in some ways, and it's good for aggregation, but it doesn't have the same flexibility DCF does.
They are all f'd up because someone imported the DCF file and shit went everywhere. Or worse they imported into one AE program then back to DCF then back to a different AE version. You might as well be using MS Excel at that point.
Agreed on all fronts. I don't know if I've ever seen/heard of a sloppier software roll-out.
like what for instance?
I agree with PF_CRE, the only issues I've had with AE thus far have been caused by filed that were imported from DCF. Files built from scratch work just fine.
In my experience, creating complex DRM's is much clunkier. Many of my counterparts complain about the hotkey strings. I've mapped out some of them, and in most instances, it takes more time/clicks/etc. to get to the same place in AE. A lot of other users have said the same thing.
This is my opinion, but again, it's harder to do some of the more complex things like tiered reference accounts, development/redev proformas, etc. This is something I liked about DCF, it was flexible enough to do development or existing dev. acquisitions.
EDIT: This is in addition to the MLA issue another poster mentioned above.
June 30, 2017, ARGUS will no longer offer support for ARGUS DCF
What's with all the dinosaurs bitching around here? I thought 99% of this site was millennials. Get with the times already. It's like a DCF fan boy club up in here.
If you think DCF is better than AE, you clearly have no idea how to use AE. If I had to use DCF on the portfolio I spent the past day on, I'd be out the window by now. They have been releasing updates constantly and each one has made using it much better overall. I used what to wanna tear my face off using DCF.
As for the sloppy rollout, I couldn't agree more. They also don't notify you of updates and new features just pop up and you kind of need to play around with it to understand how they work. I was lost for a while, but now that I know the shortcuts and useful features they've added, it's actually not bad and I've been breezing through my work much faster than before.
It's sad but DCF is better than AE. If I was Altus I'd dump AE and just let people pay me for a 25-year old program. Kodak went bankrupt trying to become a digital giant when they could have just continued selling film and making money. (Classic B-school case)
ARGUS DCF vs AE certification (Originally Posted: 02/15/2016)
I'm currently a senior in college. I got an offer for a Big Four gig after graduation, but I'm trying to get a job in real estate valuation/acquisition instead. I'm thinking about getting the ARGUS certification with a couple people to better split the costs. Been seeing conflicting things about ARGUS DCF vs AE, which one should we try to learn?
Firms are switching to AE, so I'd definitely go with that. From what my professors in my MSRE program have said, ARGUS is dropping support for DCF within the next 1-2 years as well .
Thanks. My school doesn't have a license for students to learn. Do you know if there are any deals for student groups or something like that?
Also curious about this..I see Baruch in NYC has a course for $350 but its with DCF, trying to determine if its worth it
The DCF vs. AE question has been going on for the last 5ish years.
DCF has been around for 20 years and is being phased out by ARGUS. AE has been around for 5 years and until the release about a year and a half ago, there was very little traction on getting people to switch (original AE had major haters). In Dec 2015, ARGUS announced they were stopping new DCF licenses and would end support in 2017.
That doesn't mean that everyone has immediately changed over.
If I had to pick one, I would learn DCF figuring that because the phase out is so new, that your skills aren't yet "old" and it should be easier to "upgrade" from DCF to AE than to "downgrade" from AE to DCF, unless I knew for sure that the company I was going to had AE.
If you can pay for both, do both. DCF will be good for when you start. But when they switch fully to AE and you can use the program before everyone else, your value just increased tenfold.
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