Black Women in IB - Experiences?

Hey Everybody,

I have read a few posts about African Americans in IB and there are a slew of forum topics about females in IB. However, I haven't seen a post about the nexus of the two.

Can any minority women provide some insights about their experience and how the industry has treated them?

Disclaimer: not trying to troll or start some long thread debating related topics such as affirmative action and race relations in America. Please just stick to the topic.

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Comments (134)

Aug 8, 2018

Like actual people?..

Funniest
Aug 8, 2018

Yes what a concept

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Aug 8, 2018

The sample size will be pretty low to respond here, but anything is possible.

We have a couple Associates in my class of ~50 at my BB firm who are Black women in front office IBD. They are universally smart and great to work with, that being said, I'm sure they have had to face more challenges and to "prove themselves" more than the average Associate. I went to an engineering school in the South and it seems pretty similar to what people faced there. The small upside is that the network is strong within the bank and across banks, having gone through the crucible of this job provides you with a shared experience and knowing nod from your peers. Again similar to NSBE and other groups. I would strongly recommend connecting with as many people as possible and find a mentor within the bank (even if not in your group) who can give you better advice.

EDIT: PM me and I can help if you would like to connect with someone at my bank.

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Aug 8, 2018

By challenges...do you mean being offered diversity programs only available to them?

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Aug 8, 2018

Feel free to give me all of your MS without bothering to provide a counter-argument!!!

I am not arguing that there are not as many African Americans in IB as there are some other ethnicities... I'm saying that it's not because of lack of opportunities.

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Aug 8, 2018

I won't argue that a lack of opportunity is the only factor but you can't deny that it is one of a few.

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Aug 8, 2018

I'd agree with the sentiment that perhaps culturally, there is a disadvantage to those of color. In many cases, networking is the factor that gets applicants jobs, and there's a lot of research that suggests that people are more likely to network/talk to/interact with people that are like them / look like them (subconsciously or otherwise).

However, I have first hand seen many instances of programs that are dedicated only to minorities in order to "combat" that. Yet, I think that there is also a difference between a lack of opportunities and a lack of interested applicants. Don't think it's racist/sexist to say that there's a chance that more men just want to be in the IB industry than women.

Not trying to digress to a bigger topic of race, but I feel the need to clarify because from the 8 MS's that I got on my comment regarding opportunities, clearly, people are either misunderstanding or just dumb.

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Aug 9, 2018

I don't know how being an African American woman can be associated with hardship in getting a job. African American girls at my school (semi-target) that got BB IB internships didn't even understand what a DCF does.
It is obviously a different topic if we are talking about cultural sentiment but saying that it is harder to get a job is absurd. Its just much easier when you have less competition and programs dedicated to recruit you.

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Aug 8, 2018

deleted to add quote

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Aug 8, 2018
poasb40:

I don't know how being an African American woman can be associated with hardship in getting a job. African American girls at my school (semi-target) that got BB IB internships didn't even understand what a DCF does.
It is obviously a different topic if we are talking about cultural sentiment but saying that it is harder to get a job is absurd. Its just much easier when you have less competition and programs dedicated to recruit you.

Listen to what you said. It IS harder to get a job because of the cultural sentiment that is associated with race.

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Aug 9, 2018

??? You can get a BB internship without understanding DCF. I don't think kids that don't understand TV of money should get into IB. Also to your post below, what makes you think it is easier for white/asian kids in non-target schools? They don't even have a minority program.

I was talking about post recruitment when I said cultural sentiment. I still think it is absolutely absurd if you are trying to say that it is harder to break in to IB as an African American woman.

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Aug 8, 2018
  1. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule and flaws to the system. However, I don't believe that all minorities who are members of these programs and secure internships don't understand DCF or understand TV of money or NPV, IRR, etc.
  2. AGAIN, white and asian men don't need a minority program because they are NOT a minority in this field.
  3. See '@NorcalClassof2019 's comment
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Aug 9, 2018

What about the freshman/sophomore diversity exclusive internships? Are those fair? Don't you think it would be good for the non-diversity, non-target candidates to get some experience as a freshman or sophomore at a BB as well? I think in regard to getting experience at this level URMs are at an advantage.

See https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/a-one-stop-shop-for-all-things-diversity-recruiting-the-most-exhaustive-list-on-wso for reference, and maybe it could help answer some of your questions.

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Aug 9, 2018
poasb40:

I don't know how being an African American woman can be associated with hardship in getting a job.

Jesus christ.

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Aug 9, 2018

yea pretty much. I think the fact that this thread made it about 4 comments before devolving into exactly what the OP put in her disclaimer was not what she wanted, says about all you need to know about some of the people on this site.

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Aug 9, 2018
dr_mantistoboggan_MD:

yea pretty much. I think the fact that this thread made it about 4 comments before devolving into exactly what the OP put in her disclaimer was not what she wanted, says about all you need to know about some of the people on this site.

An "industry" isn't a sentient being. The way in which her question was posed not only implies (A) that every human being working within IB is some sort of monolith and that (B) African American women are some sort of monolith (both absurd assertions), it also implies that monolithic group A treats monolithic group B a specific way (i.e., differently) based simply on two arbitrary superficial characteristics (e.g., skin color and what's dangling or not dangling between your legs).

Ironically, her question begets a discussion on exactly the topic which she claims she's trying to avoid.

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Aug 8, 2018
Tom Bwady:

The way in which her question was posed not only implies (A) that every human being working within IB is some sort of monolith and that (B) African American women are some sort of monolith (both absurd assertions), it also implies that monolithic group A treats monolithic group B a specific way.

Where did I even suggest that African American women are a monolith? I simply inquired about a category of people. The point of my OP was to hear some experiences from AA women in the industry and compare them to the experiences that I have heard from non-minority mentors/connections to see if and how they differ.

My OP in no way suggests that all non-minority, male bankers are racist trolls who sit around trying to discriminate / exclude minorities and women because I don't believe that to be true. I do believe, however, that there is a portion of the IB population whose subconcious (or conscious) bias comes into play in the workplace and I desired to hear some first hand accounts of both positive and negative experiences.

It seems like if anything you are the one who is generalizing.

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Aug 9, 2018

10/10 username. Yeah, agreed. I love WSO, but my god, why is it so hard for them to accept that being a female POC makes it harder to get a job?

Christ almighty, you can still be a capitalist and accept societal differentials in power structures across races/genders. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

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Aug 9, 2018
NorcalClassof2019:

Jesus christ.

Cool. Are you unfamiliar with the recruitment process?

I am never going to argue with anyone (online or offline) whether I think affirmative action is right or wrong because its slippery subject. But it is very annoying when people don't admit that diversity programs make it easier. Hello??? That's the fckin point of these programs. To make it easier for minorities and promote diversity.

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Aug 8, 2018

deleted to add quote

Aug 8, 2018
fb224:

I'd agree with the sentiment that perhaps culturally, there is a disadvantage to those of color. In many cases, networking is the factor that gets applicants jobs, and there's a lot of research that suggests that people are more likely to network/talk to/interact with people that are like them / look like them (subconsciously or otherwise).

However, I have first hand seen many instances of programs that are dedicated only to minorities in order to "combat" that. Yet, I think that there is also a difference between a lack of opportunities and a lack of interested applicants. Don't think it's racist/sexist to say that there's a chance that more men just want to be in the IB industry than women.

Not trying to digress to a bigger topic of race, but I feel the need to clarify because from the 8 MS's that I got on my comment regarding opportunities, clearly, people are either misunderstanding or just dumb.

I will agree that there are more men than women and more Caucasians than African-Americans who want to enter IB. However instead of just being able to compete on the same level as regular applicants, these minorities are seen as just that and are given limited slots to fight over. People don't realize that just because there are diversity programs, it doesn't mean that literally every member magically gets a job at a BB. Minorities flock to these programs because it feels nearly impossible to get into IB without it, most likely due to not being at a target school or not having ANY personal connections who can secure you a first round or a superday.

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Aug 9, 2018

Along with these limited slots just for them they also have the opportunity to fight over all of the other slots for everyone else. I definitely believe this gives them a leg up on the recruiting process.

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Aug 10, 2018

Even if it's just lack of interest, it still makes sense for companies to have specific recruiting programs since that way they can draw from a talent pool of high quality applicants who otherwise might not apply; it's the same as that whole thing about how banks were worried because too many college kids wanted to do tech. Also, let's be real here, the main reason people do finance is for the money/prestige and a general intelligence and ambition but a lack of a specialized skill set (at least at first) which are interests and conditions most people share regardless of gender or racial background.

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Aug 8, 2018

Why, no, that is not what I meant.

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Aug 8, 2018

bump!

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Aug 8, 2018

You should probably just connect with diversity program alum on LinkedIn. Doubt you find a lot of responses on here.

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Aug 8, 2018

In my class of 50, we had one African-American woman recruiting for IB. I'm a POC myself, but a male. I knew that she had double the barriers to jump over, but she also had more bites at the apple. There are a lot more diversity specific recruiting programs, but many of them happen before the general cycle and if you're not prepared, you miss out on them.

I hope you find your fit and you feel comfortable coming into IB. This industry needs it, and the value of your unique perspective and insights should allow you to make a real contribution.

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Aug 8, 2018

Thanks for the encouraging post.. appreciated.

Aug 8, 2018

Prospective black female hopefully going into IB! -- would love to connect

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Aug 8, 2018

Great, can you PM me? (daily limit)

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Aug 8, 2018
lapike:

In my class of 50, we had one African-American woman recruiting for IB. I'm a POC myself, but a male. I knew that she had double the barriers to jump over, but she also had more bites at the apple. There are a lot more diversity specific recruiting programs, but many of them happen before the general cycle and if you're not prepared, you miss out on them.

I hope you find your fit and you feel comfortable coming into IB. This industry needs it, and the value of your unique perspective and insights should allow you to make a real contribution.

Idk how you can look at numbers and not realize there are very high barriers for POC other people never face

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Aug 8, 2018

Exactly. There are so many people who think that they're being completely screwed because their target bank is hosting an event to attract more women or POCs into the industry. But this is only one event. The people getting upset about this have had an entire lifetime of advantage.

Oh well. When you've been privileged your entire life, equality feels like oppression.

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Most Helpful
Aug 9, 2018
lapike:

Exactly. There are so many people who think that they're being completely screwed because their target bank is hosting an event to attract more women or POCs into the industry. But this is only one event. The people getting upset about this have had an entire lifetime of advantage.

Oh well. When you've been privileged your entire life, equality feels like oppression.

This. Having worked in banking for 5+ years I can (sadly) honestly say I have never had an African American woman co-worker (who was a banker) and there are none that I know of at my bank currently. Even when I was at a BB I couldn't name a single one off the top of my head.

As this thread shows, even if one breaks in their peers will constantly - consciously or subconsciously, question their abilities/background throughout the experience. If you can't see how the compounding of a disadvantaged background, limited senior peers with similar backgrounds, and drawing the ire of your colleagues doesn't create a massive disadvantage for minorities (women especially but men as well) then I don't know what to tell you.

You think you are at a disadvantage because 5 slots go to highly disadvantaged applicants? Cmon....

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Aug 8, 2018

Thank you for progressing the discussion. Many people don't realize that the hardest part isn't even the interviews and getting the job (though that part is extremely difficult) but fitting into the culture and not feeling left out... Like you said, it's the constant questioning of abilities or subconscious (or sometimes conscious) exclusion or non-inclusion in a variety of settings at work. People naturally tend to like people most similar to them more than those who differ from them. This specifically manifests in IB when most minority applicants have few to no people in a position of significant power who can vouch for them or genuinely mentor them in the same way that most white males experience.

This is NOT to say that all white males have a cakewalk in terms of their job and do not have to work hard. However, there are external factors most minorities experience or worry about that non-minorities won't understand unless you closely study or ask a minority peer, colleague, etc.

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Aug 10, 2018

THIS. I think it's been easier for me for sure to get interviews, not sure if offers were easier...fitting in is SO hard sometimes. People make assumptions and make decisions for you and exclude you subconsciously from events / casual networking opps.

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Aug 13, 2018

I've heard multiple iterations of what you're saying but for some reason the way you articulated it here struck a much clearer note and is actually sticking. Finally clicked so thank you for this.

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Aug 8, 2018
lapike:

Oh well. When you've been privileged your entire life, equality feels like oppression.

VERY well-said.. That is the true reason why so many people have an issue with diversity programs and want to claim reverse discrimination or an unfair disadvantage.

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Aug 9, 2018
fem.blk.ib:
lapike:

Oh well. When you've been privileged your entire life, equality feels like oppression.

VERY well-said.. That is the true reason why so many people have an issue with diversity programs and want to claim reverse discrimination or an unfair disadvantage.

Very well said? So I guess a dirt-poor white or Asian kid who grew up in a broken home and had to work two jobs in college is "privileged" simply by virtue of skin color or sex. Uh-huh, very "well-said."

"Diversity" programs are de-facto discriminatory on the basis of skin color, sex and sexual preference. There's no such thing as "reverse discrimination"; it's simply discrimination. You're free to engage in endless mental gymnastics in hopes of grasping at some hollow, ill-contrived justification for the practice, but that won't change the aforementioned truth.

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Aug 8, 2018
Tom Bwady:
fem.blk.ib:
lapike:

Very well said? So I guess a dirt-poor white or Asian kid who grew up in a broken home and had to work two jobs in college is "privileged" simply by virtue of skin color or sex. Uh-huh, very "well-said."

"Diversity" programs are de-facto discriminatory on the basis of skin color, sex and sexual preference. There's no such thing as "reverse discrimination"; it's simply discrimination. You're free to engage in endless mental gymnastics in hopes of grasping at some hollow, ill-contrived justification for the practice, but that won't change the aforementioned truth.

Aww well someone seems upset.... No response to my first counter?

Anyway, I stand by what I said. Diversity programs are created to increase just that; therefore, it would be redundant to recruit non-minorities for the program, it defeats the purpose. This practice is in no way discriminatory because it is not that it is unjust to non-minorities, the program simply isn't made for non-minorities. The diversity programs would be discriminatory if they said they were open to all races and then had a strong, purposeful preference for, and subsequent selection of, one race over another... then that would be discrimination.

To recap, non-minorities can't claim discrimination when they simply don't qualify for the program. And the reason why non-minorities don't qualify for the minority program is because they aren't underrepresented in the industry.

See, no mental gymnastics, just logic.

Also, nice try with the "what happens to the poor non-minority" shtick. There are a lot of diversity programs that should accept non-minorities because I would see them as diversity candidates, especially if they attend non-target schools.

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Aug 9, 2018

Lol. This is pure garbage. I like how your "logic" conveniently skips to the post creation of diversity programs. Try to understand what the other dude is talking about before typing shit up because you gave a complete non-answer to his question. I agree that diversity programs are necessary but your post and logic hurts my brain. The best part is where you think you are so clever. No mental gymnastics... Hah.

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Aug 8, 2018

He didn't pose a question... but I did address his part of the post about low-income white or Asian males who I do think should be included in the diversity programs.

Regardless, what about the logic in my post upsets you?

Also, I don't understand what you mean by "skips to the post-creation of diversity programs." Was I supposed to give the history and background of them?

Lastly, I'm genuinely confused as to why this topic is so difficult to discuss in a calm way. What I intended to say in that post is that minority programs are meant for those who are underrepresented in the industry. Therefore, you are not discriminated against if you don't qualify for the program because your demographic is well represented in the industry. Is that confusing?

Aug 9, 2018

I'm not upset at your logical flaw. I'm upset because you write as if your logic is correct.
He did post a question. Maybe you had a hard time catching it because it did not have a question mark. ""Diversity" programs are de-facto discriminatory on the basis of skin color, sex and sexual preference. " This is basically asking you why diversity programs are not discriminatory. And your garbage answer ("non-minorities can't claim discrimination when they simply don't qualify for the program") was garbage. Also please link me to this diversity program for poor asian kids. I would like to shoot that out to my buddies.

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Aug 8, 2018

Him giving his own definition of diversity programs is not a question.. It is not an indication that I should give him an answer because there is no question. He is simply stating his opinion.

Also you can't claim garbage just because you don't like the answer I gave. For example, if there was a program strictly for low-income students to help them forge a path into the IB industry I wouldn't be upset, jealous, etc. because I simply don't qualify for it; I don't meet the criteria.

Also, I'll leave the program research up to you and your buddies. Maybe we should partner up to found one since everyone here on this site seems so passionate about helping low-income applicants! :)

Aug 9, 2018

I was calling your BS. I have never heard of an income based diversity program for non-minority kids. Don't throw stuff in the mix if you can't back it up.

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Aug 8, 2018

I said that there should be.

Aug 9, 2018

Should have read more carefully. My bad.

Aug 8, 2018

Appreciate it. The topic gets so cutthroat but it doesn't have to. I don't hate you or anything, I don't even know you.

Aug 9, 2018
fem.blk.ib:
Tom Bwady:
fem.blk.ib:
lapike:

Very well said? So I guess a dirt-poor white or Asian kid who grew up in a broken home and had to work two jobs in college is "privileged" simply by virtue of skin color or sex. Uh-huh, very "well-said."

"Diversity" programs are de-facto discriminatory on the basis of skin color, sex and sexual preference. There's no such thing as "reverse discrimination"; it's simply discrimination. You're free to engage in endless mental gymnastics in hopes of grasping at some hollow, ill-contrived justification for the practice, but that won't change the aforementioned truth.

Aww well someone seems upset.... No response to my first counter?

Anyway, I stand by what I said. Diversity programs are created to increase just that; therefore, it would be redundant to recruit non-minorities for the program, it defeats the purpose. This practice is in no way discriminatory because it is not that it is unjust to non-minorities, the program simply isn't made for non-minorities. The diversity programs would be discriminatory if they said they were open to all races and then had a strong, purposeful preference for, and subsequent selection of, one race over another... then that would be discrimination.

To recap, non-minorities can't claim discrimination when they simply don't qualify for the program. And the reason why non-minorities don't qualify for the minority program is because they aren't underrepresented in the industry.

See, no mental gymnastics, just logic.

Also, nice try with the "what happens to the poor non-minority" shtick. There are a lot of diversity programs that accept non-minorities who are seen as diversity candidates if they attended a target school or fit the description you just mentioned.

Upset? Hah. Nearly nothing you've written here can be reasonably described as "logic" (you're only fooling yourself and other brain-dead people). I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in regards to you being a reasonable individual, but alas, it seems that was an exercise in futility.

Your critical thinking faculties and reading comprehension abilities are astonishingly piss-poor. Unfortunately for you, I'm not being facetious when I say that you'll be lucky if you land an HR gig.

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Aug 8, 2018
Tom Bwady:
lapike:

Unfortunately for you, I'm not being facetious when I say that you'll be lucky if you land an HR gig.

It's crazy the balls that people suddenly have when typing behind a keyboard. I thought it was a debate but clearly you are incapable of doing so without getting personal and insulting those you disagree with...what class. I'm done trying to debate with someone who clearly spends their life typing on their keyboard.

There's no reason to insult people. I believe in karma and the concept that one receives very the energy that he/she puts out in the world. Therefore, I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors and hope that you eventually learn that being a nice, decent person is equally as important as any other skills or achievements.

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Aug 16, 2018

He's not the one insulting people here, you are. And be happy if you land an HR gig. And please, end this pointless topic.

fem.blk.ib:

1) Idk how you could actually be confused by what I'm saying. Either you're annoying af to prove your point or just dumb as shit.

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Aug 8, 2018

There's a difference between blatantly calling the person dumb and saying they are either being stubborn or dumb.

Read this guy's comment in totality. He said my reading comp skills are piss poor, said I'm an unreasonable person and slid in a dig with the HR comment knowing that I'm trying to break into IB.. Don't minimize what he said; that comment is an insult.

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Aug 9, 2018
fem.blk.ib:

There's a difference between blatantly calling the person dumb and saying they are either being stubborn or dumb.

Lmfao.

fem.blk.ib:

Read this guy's comment in totality. He said my reading comp skills are piss poor, said I'm an unreasonable person...

If any reasonably intelligent, open-minded individual does the former, he/she will certainly conclude the latter, friendo.

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Aug 9, 2018

What "numbers" are you referring too?

Array

Aug 8, 2018
Pani55:

What "numbers" are you referring too?

Here we go... more invalid point arguing.

And it's *to

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Aug 9, 2018

Lmao as expected. You know what's worse then a spelling error? Making baseless statements not grounded in any observable reality.

Array

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Aug 8, 2018
Pani55:

Lmao as expected. You know what's worse then a spelling error? Making baseless statements not grounded in any observable reality.

The person my post was in response to gave you numbers from his class. Idk what more you need, but since you want to be ignorant, here's a dataset[/embed] just to patronize you on VC. If I can find one for IB I'll post that later, but they usually like to hide these numbers.

Biggest takeaway from that data is blacks are currently at 3% only up from 2% in 2016 and that change is represented by black women, who were at only 0%.

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Aug 9, 2018

Groups of people not having the same outcomes != "high barriers for people of color"

Array

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Aug 8, 2018
Pani55:

Groups of people not having the same outcomes != "high barriers for people of color"

It does when the main/operative barrier for anyone to get hired is your pedigree.

Aug 9, 2018

Um, no. Try learning the difference between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome.

Array

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Aug 8, 2018
Pani55:

Um, no. Try learning the difference between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome.

Exclusion is not equality of opportunity

Aug 9, 2018
iBankedUp:
Pani55:

Um, no. Try learning the difference between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome.

Exclusion is not equality of opportunity

The non-minority applicants are being excluded from the minority programs.

Aug 8, 2018
IUHoosierBanker:
iBankedUp:
Pani55:

Um, no. Try learning the difference between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome.

Exclusion is not equality of opportunity

The non-minority applicants are being excluded from the minority programs.

Your view is subjective and frankly pathetic.

Aug 9, 2018
iBankedUp:
IUHoosierBanker:
iBankedUp:
Pani55:

Um, no. Try learning the difference between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome.

Exclusion is not equality of opportunity

The non-minority applicants are being excluded from the minority programs.

Your view is subjective and frankly pathetic.

It's the truth. The purpose of the minority program is to exclude non-minorities. Hence why it is called a minority program. What if it was a non-minority only program? Would it be okay then? Wouldn't minorities feel excluded?

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Aug 8, 2018
IUHoosierBanker:
iBankedUp:
IUHoosierBanker:
iBankedUp:
Pani55:

Um, no. Try learning the difference between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome.

Exclusion is not equality of opportunity

The non-minority applicants are being excluded from the minority programs.

Your view is subjective and frankly pathetic.

It's the truth. The purpose of the minority program is to exclude non-minorities. Hence why it is called a minority program. What if it was a non-minority only program? Would it be okay then? Wouldn't minorities feel excluded?

So you are angry that you're not part of a program that pays no money, requires you to network with non-whites and women, and pays no specific benefit to you?

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Aug 8, 2018

deleted

Aug 8, 2018
IUHoosierBanker:
iBankedUp:
Pani55:

Um, no. Try learning the difference between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome.

The non-minority applicants are being excluded from the minority programs.

Lol the only time non-minorites want to be give "minority" treatment is during college applications and job recruitment. Y'all are sad.

So what if you feel minorities have a slight advantage by use of these programs (they don't it simply levels the playing field)? Maybe this is one of the positives that balance out the racial injustices that minorities face quite often.

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Aug 9, 2018
fem.blk.ib:
IUHoosierBanker:
iBankedUp:
Pani55:

Um, no. Try learning the difference between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome.

The non-minority applicants are being excluded from the minority programs.

Lol the only time non-minorites want to be give "minority" treatment is during college applications and job recruitment. Y'all are sad.

So what if you feel minorities have a slight advantage by use of these programs (they don't it simply levels the playing field)? Maybe this is one of the positives that balance out the racial injustices that minorities face quite often.

You don't achieve equality by putting the other group down.

As for your articles, I just read the one Yale example. You understand that the white student calling the cops has nothing to do with his race, right? He merely assumed it was a homeless person that may have wandered in. I am sure that he would still call campus police if the student was white, purple, or lime green.

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Aug 8, 2018
IUHoosierBanker:
fem.blk.ib:
IUHoosierBanker:
iBankedUp:
Pani55:

You don't achieve equality by putting the other group down.

As for your articles, I just read the one Yale example. You understand that the white student calling the cops has nothing to do with his race, right? He merely assumed it was a homeless person that may have wandered in. I am sure that he would still call campus police if the student was white, purple, or lime green.

1) You also don't achieve equality by refusing to help the group that was oppressed for two centuries.

2) Why would you assume that someone sleeping in a common dorm room at an Ivy League school is homeless? It was finals week and someone was napping in a dormitory common room during the day. How many homeless people do you really think can sneak into a Yale dorm without an ID? Everyone knows that Ivies have some of the more strict security policies in terms of entering dormitory spaces. The person who called the police clearly wasn't accustomed to seeing people of that color in their dormitory space and INSTEAD of treating the sleeping person LIKE a person and asking them directly, they assumed the worst and called the police.

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Aug 13, 2018

More like 3-4 centuries..

That said, I'm dubious that these minority programs are actually targeting the communities that were oppressed. Any kid who goes to a good school will see that the minority kids usually come from the same well-to-do backgrounds as the non-minorities. Frankly, I feel we need to adjust the definition of URM to include poor people of all ethnicities not just minorities. No point giving that kid from Stuy or TJSHSST or Andover an advantage at recruiting when the white kid from the Bronx probably struggled more to get to the same place.

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Aug 8, 2018

Lol thanks, I tried to go easy on him.

And I agree. I am an example of a minority who grew up relatively privileged (middle-class but still not struggling) and I agree that these programs should focus more on social class / upbringing as another factor and not just race. There is definitely work to be done in that department.

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Aug 8, 2018
princepieman:

More like 3-4 centuries..

That said, I'm dubious that these minority programs are actually targeting the communities that were oppressed. Any kid who goes to a good school will see that the minority kids usually come from the same well-to-do backgrounds as the non-minorities. Frankly, I feel we need to adjust the definition of URM to include poor people of all ethnicities not just minorities. No point giving that kid from Stuy or TJSHSST or Andover an advantage at recruiting when the white kid from the Bronx probably struggled more to get to the same place.

I don't think the point is necessarily to target communities that were oppressed. People look at this as if it's some form of reparations. It's merely to achieve the goal stated but everyone wants to read around, "increase representation".

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Aug 9, 2018
iBankedUp:
princepieman:

More like 3-4 centuries..

That said, I'm dubious that these minority programs are actually targeting the communities that were oppressed. Any kid who goes to a good school will see that the minority kids usually come from the same well-to-do backgrounds as the non-minorities. Frankly, I feel we need to adjust the definition of URM to include poor people of all ethnicities not just minorities. No point giving that kid from Stuy or TJSHSST or Andover an advantage at recruiting when the white kid from the Bronx probably struggled more to get to the same place.

I don't think the point is necessarily to target communities that were oppressed. People look at this as if it's some form of reparations. It's merely to achieve the goal stated but everyone wants to read around, "increase representation".

Why do you accept at face value the proposition that it's acceptable to discriminate on the basis of race, sex, or sexual preference to achieve parity in IB? Why do you think the benefits of this discrimination outweigh the costs? What evidence do you have for this idea? In what historical context ever has this practice done more good than harm (i.e., provided net positive benefits)? Why do you believe that it is acceptable to use these superficial characteristics as a qualifier for the word "diversity"? Why does it matter what color a person is or what's dangling between their legs? Do you not agree that the only form of "diversity" that should matter is diversity of thought? If so, do you believe that the aforementioned superficial characteristics are the most important defining qualities of an individual in determining how they think?

Are you prepared to relinquish your position of employment to a woman or African American in support of this "equal representation" philosophy? If not, why? For what reason would you exempt yourself from self-sacrifice in furtherance of this philosophy if you truly believe in its end goal?

Why restrict the parity argument to IB or tech? Why not nursing? Why not mining? Why not janitorial work? Why not construction? Why not the taxi/chauffeur industry? Why not waste management? Why not landscaping? Why not interior design? Why not sewer maintenance?

Why not delineate groups of people by height, breast size, and cock size as well? What about people with brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes, black eyes, or two different color eyes? What about people born without hands? Feet? Why should skin color, genitalia, or sexual preference define, to a greater extent than these other physical attributes, a person's worth to an employer or society at large? Why should ANY of these be used to define, to ANY EXTENT WHATSOEVER, a person's worth to an employer or society at large?

What is your motivation for wanting to believe in this philosophy? Is it because the claimed end goal simply SOUNDS good? Are you just parroting something you've heard because you're afraid of being chastised and berated by charlatans simply for critically analyzing an idea that ignorant individuals demand you gleefully swallow and accept at face value? If you claim your answer to this question is "no", how exactly do you mentally rationalize your position?

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Aug 13, 2018

Who hurt you?

Aug 9, 2018

double post

Aug 9, 2018
fem.blk.ib:
IUHoosierBanker:
fem.blk.ib:
IUHoosierBanker:
iBankedUp:
Pani55:

You don't achieve equality by putting the other group down.

As for your articles, I just read the one Yale example. You understand that the white student calling the cops has nothing to do with his race, right? He merely assumed it was a homeless person that may have wandered in. I am sure that he would still call campus police if the student was white, purple, or lime green.

1) You also don't achieve equality by refusing to help the group that was oppressed for two centuries.

2) Why would you assume that someone sleeping in a common dorm room at an Ivy League school is homeless? It was finals week and someone was napping in a dormitory common room during the day. How many homeless people do you really think can sneak into a Yale dorm without an ID? Everyone knows that Ivies have some of the more strict security policies in terms of entering dormitory spaces. The person who called the police clearly wasn't accustomed to seeing people of that color in their dormitory space and INSTEAD of treating the sleeping person LIKE a person and asking them directly, they assumed the worst and called the police.

Why do you instantly have to assume the worst about someone and always play the race card? Not everyone is out to get you. Just because you didn't get the job doesn't instantly make the company or interviewer racist. Just because a white guy calls the cops on a black guy doesn't mean he is racist. You can't just assume that. I also can't assume he isn't and I was mistaken to do that. However, always playing the race card isn't going to get anyone anywhere. It will just continue to create division. The diversity programs also contribute to this. I think a program not based on race, but based on income would be much fairer. This would exclude the people who truly do not need the advantage. but would include the individuals, regardless of race, who are actually disadvantaged. While I'll agree with what has happened for the past 2-4 centuries is horrible; these are the people who have been oppressed since the beginning of time.

Oh, by the way, thanks for going easy on me, and the Washington Post is a horrendous source.

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Aug 8, 2018

1) I don't always assume the worst but that is what I wished the Yale student had done before calling the police on a fellow student.

2) I never implied that if a bank doesn't hire me or if a banker doesn't like me they are racist. I'm not even sure where you came up with this as related to our discussion.

3) I am SOOO tired of people claiming that POC play a race card because it's not a card I can play.... I don't wake up one morning and say "gee, I want to spice up my life, let my put my on black skin." Alternatively, I can't hide my race when convenient. So I'm sorry but it is an aspect of my being that is present in all situations, however most of the time my race isn't an issue.

4) As I previously stated, I agree that more programs should be in place to assist low-income candidates of all races who are equally qualified but don't have access to similar resources.

5) Please don't try to equate 3 centuries of slavery and laws designed to oppress African-Americans with the struggles of low-income people. Though both have been oppressed by this country's history, and measures should be taken to improve that, they aren't equitable.

Aug 9, 2018
fem.blk.ib:

5) Please don't try to equate 3 centuries of slavery and laws designed to oppress African-Americans with the struggles of low-income people. Though both have been oppressed by this country's history, and measures should be taken to improve that, they aren't equitable.

Lmao. You're attempting to use slavery and discriminatory laws abolished far before you were born as some sort of corollary to the hardships living individuals face currently? Not only that, but your statement is phrased in a way that insinuates a dirt-poor person cannot possibly have a tougher life than any African American because, you know, they're just not black.

You do realize that slavery predates the 15th century, right? You do realize that nearly every color, shade and hue of person was "oppressed" for the majority of human history, right? Serfdom, slavery, indentured servitude, you name it. You do realize that, relatively speaking, only a tiny minority of individuals ever owned slaves, right? You do realize that no one is responsible for the actions of other individuals, much less people that have been bones and ashes for centuries, right?

Do you really want to attempt to rectify horrors of the past by supporting discrimination against people living today who, simply by virtue of birth, happen to share a similar skin tone with the specific sub-set of perpetrators you've chosen to use as a political battle-drum? If so, and if you want to be philosophically and logically consistent, you should welcome every other "group" who has been "oppressed" at any point in history to employ these same discriminatory tactics against living individuals who happen to share some arbitrary superficial characteristic with their chosen sub-set of long-dead perpetrators. Do you know how this game invariably ends? I'll give you a hint: Read some history books.

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Aug 8, 2018

1) See my above response.

2) If you can't in any way agree that slavery and the government's laws / actions to continue the oppression of this group still have residual affects on African-Americans today, then I'm done with this conversation.

I won't be replying to anything else you say because clearly you sir are a troll who gets off on these types of online arguments.

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Aug 9, 2018

He's an idiot. The mental gymnastics required to convince himself that his POV is true is almost hilarious. The sad part is that he'll probably have a family some day, teach his kids to think that way, and continue on with a family tree of ignorance. Don't waste your time with someone who oozes that much pathetic filth.

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Aug 8, 2018

Honestly you hit the nail on the head; that's what worries me most. It's not that his beliefs are hurtful but the fact that this mess is still being passed down through generations is unsettling to say the least... Apparently not as much progress is being made as we all would like to believe.

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Aug 9, 2018
fem.blk.ib:

Honestly you hit the nail on the head; that's what worries me most. It's not that his beliefs are hurtful but the fact that this mess is still being passed down through generations is unsettling to say the least... Apparently not as much progress is being made as we all would like to believe.

Nothing that I said was unfactual and, unsurprisingly, you've yet again provided substantive counter-arguments to precisely zero of my statements.

My "beliefs"? The only "belief" that I've asserted is that discrimination on the basis of skin color, genatalia, sexual preference or any other superficial characteristic of an individual is immoral in every scenario, no matter how some self-righteous demagogue tries to spin it. Gosh, what a truly hateful belief.

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Aug 9, 2018
NorcalClassof2019:

He's an idiot. The mental gymnastics required to convince himself that his POV is true is almost hilarious. The sad part is that he'll probably have a family some day, teach his kids to think that way, and continue on with a family tree of ignorance. Don't waste your time with someone who oozes that much pathetic filth.

Not an argument. Truthful statements = filth? Okey doke, kiddo.

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Aug 8, 2018
Pani55:

Groups of people not having the same outcomes != "high barriers for people of color"

It does when the main/operative barrier for anyone to get hired is your pedigree.

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Aug 9, 2018
iBankedUp:
Pani55:

Lmao as expected. You know what's worse then a spelling error? Making baseless statements not grounded in any observable reality.

The person my post was in response to gave you numbers from his class. Idk what more you need, but since you want to be ignorant, here's a dataset[/embed] just to patronize you on VC. If I can find one for IB I'll post that later, but they usually like to hide these numbers.

Biggest takeaway from that data is blacks are currently at 3% only up from 2% in 2016 and that change is represented by black women, who were at only 0%.

Is your proposition that, in the absence of some sort of parity in IB (or any other industry for that matter) based on skin color, there must be some sort of nefarious force at play? If not, what exactly is your point?

Furthermore, why stop at skin color as the qualifier for your nirvana of parity? Let's make sure people from Gatlinburg, TN are equally represented in IB with respect to their population size. How about Eskimos? Make sure they're respresented equally too. Not enough women working in mine shafts? Well by god, let's get that gender parity in order! Hiring female nurses?! Stop that!! We need more people with penises walking around hospitals!! Let's divide EVERYONE into groups based on superficial characteristics!! That'll surely end well!

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Aug 8, 2018
Tom Bwady:
iBankedUp:
Pani55:

Lmao as expected. You know what's worse then a spelling error? Making baseless statements not grounded in any observable reality.

The person my post was in response to gave you numbers from his class. Idk what more you need, but since you want to be ignorant, here's a dataset[/embed] just to patronize you on VC. If I can find one for IB I'll post that later, but they usually like to hide these numbers.

Biggest takeaway from that data is blacks are currently at 3% only up from 2% in 2016 and that change is represented by black women, who were at only 0%.

Is your proposition that, in the absence of some sort of parity in IB (or any other industry for that matter) based on skin color, there must be some sort of nefarious force at play? If not, what exactly is your point?

Furthermore, why stop at skin color as the qualifier for your nirvana of parity? Let's make sure people from Gatlinburg, TN are equally represented in IB with respect to their population size. How about Eskimos? Make sure they're respresented equally too. Not enough women working in mine shafts? Well by god, let's get that gender parity in order! Hiring female nurses?! Stop that!! We need more people with penises walking around hospitals!! Let's divide EVERYONE into groups based on superficial characteristics!! That'll surely end well!

I smiled at "nirvana of parity"

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Aug 8, 2018

Lol why the random monkey shit?

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Aug 9, 2018

Your use of the word nexus probably caused a few high school kids to have to go to dictionary.com and figure out what was going on. Having then used the phonetic "dic" reminded them of their involuntary celibacy, that coupled with low vocab skills probably triggered them. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

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Aug 8, 2018

You are too much...Thanks for the laugh

Aug 8, 2018

Sadly, any relevant threads are few and far between. The only ones I've come across are from 2017 and 2015 - a number of the responses and their tone are less than helpful.

https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/succeeding-...
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/wall-street...
One of my best friends has been in banking and finance for over 2 decades and is a black woman, born in London, raised in the US, all her schooling/work career in the US.

She's had both good and bad experiences in her schooling and working lives, has experienced both overt and subtle racism/bias. She and I have worked together at several firms over the years and I can tell you as an observer there are always going to be some people who will want to mentor you and some people will want as little to do with you as possible. I saw her both get passed up for promotions that she was deserving of at times, but also saw her given wonderful work opportunities.

If you'd like, send me a private message and I can see about putting you two in touch if you'd like to pick her brain. Actually, I just saw your 'daily limit' comment, so I will drop you a PM.

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Aug 8, 2018

@bankerella2 is a minority too and can probably help you.

Aug 9, 2018

Very hard to talk about those things here knowing the lack of diversity this site have. Just because there is diversity program that does not mean that at the end of the day firms hire more people of diverse background. Are firms making progress on hiring diverse candidates? Yes. Is there still more to be done? Yes. Is it bad for non diversity applicants from non target schools? Yes. But until firms understand that all applicants should be treated equally, there will still be a need for diversity programs, because in a general Superdays it is more likely that a non diversity candidate gets the job because of knowing someone at the firm or having a deeper connection with the senior interviewer who in most cases have the same background.

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Aug 10, 2018

PM me. I'll connect you with one of my mentors, she worked at two BB's for a couple of years.

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Aug 8, 2018

Could you PM me? I guess my daily limit hasn't lifted yet.

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Aug 10, 2018

This thread shows what a cesspool this site is.

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Aug 9, 2018
vxtu:

This thread shows what a cesspool this site is.

People expressing different opinions

"Oh my gosh!!! What a cesspool!! Insulate me!!"

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Aug 10, 2018

I think people from "disadvantaged" backgrounds always are going to have it tough. I have a friend who's pure African and is a very talented and knowledgeable person. Easy a top bucket and unfortunately the amount of times I hear other people bring up affirmative action or some other similar BS in regards to him completely undermines his qualities and like I said hes top bucket, I can only imagine what it must be like for an average performer.

I personally do not believe in affirmative action as everyone should get positions on merit. The sad truth is we do need it as at least in my experience the offices I have worked in are nearly all white western male Europeans.

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Aug 11, 2018

-

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Aug 11, 2018

Female rappers overall are a small sample set. But you can be damn sure every record company is looking for the next Eminem or Post Malone. And you can be damn sure their skin color helped them become as popular as they are among a largely white fan base (white people are who drive music sales). That said, I still think Eminem is a top 5 rapper ever.

Aug 8, 2018

By his own admission a top 9 rapper. It goes Reggie, Jay-Z, Tupac and Biggie, Andre from Outkast, Jada, Kurupt, Nas and then Em.

Aug 11, 2018
Synergy_or_Syzygy:

By his own admission a top 9 rapper. It goes Reggie, Jay-Z, Tupac and Biggie, Andre from Outkast, Jada, Kurupt, Nas and then Em.

Mr. Mathers was being humble. Em knows that Redman is a true MC and so underrated though, I like that Em gave Red his due.

Aug 11, 2018

This thread is exactly what I thought it would be. Let me make this clear: yes, minority hiring programs give minorities an advantage, IN THAT SPECIFIC ASPECT. No, that does not mean minorities have an OVERALL advantage when it comes to recruiting AT ALMOST ANY TYPE OF JOB. The evidence overwhelmingly points to minorities being at a disadvantage, regardless of minority outreach programs. People who deny this are either a.) intellectually dishonest or b.) ignorant. I generally hope for ignorance because intellectual dishonesty in this case would implicate malicious intent (you know minorities are disadvantaged but trumpet that they are advantaged for nefarious reasons). To the poster who mentioned poor Asians/ whites, that's a fair argument, but their race still conveys them societal advantages that a minority of any income level simply cannot rely on. That said, I'm happy to acknowledge that there needs to be more income based hiring programs.

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Aug 9, 2018

I agree with most of your statements but god it is so annoying when people say asians have some sort of societal advantage. Being an asian in this country fckin blows. No one gives a shit about us in terms of college admission/job search because there is a surplus of asians that are willing to grind. As a cherry on top, there are limited spots thanks to affirmative action. I think Asians don't whine and cry about this shit because there is a cultural stigma where you are perceived to be weak if you whine. But I'll let you know right now that we don't enjoy grinding. I wouldn't have read Investment Banking by Rosenbaum 3 times while other kids read vault guides if I didn't feel like I had to. We just grind because we have to. It shouldn't be hard to figure this shit out when you look at statistical difference between Eastern Asian/Indians and other minorities (or even white students for that matter) in admissions (undergrad and grad). I mostly keep this kind of negativity to myself but I do feel very salty about this topic.

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Aug 11, 2018

In my experience, Asians have to prove they are dumb, people naturally assume they are smart. Most people of other races have to prove they are smart. Asians also have to prove they are lazy, people naturally assume they are hard working. This benefit of a doubt is a societal advantage.

p.s. Unqualified white ppl are the ones who are unfairly replacing Asians in college admissions and such, not minorities. Blaming affirmative action is laughable, especially when it comes to the job market.

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Aug 9, 2018
  1. Asians probably are smarter in a given group of people because asians get weeded the fck out during the process. Is that good? Not really because we are getting replaced by people that are under-qualified.
  2. It is laughable when you make comments like this because you are talking about stuff you don't understand out of your ass. Unqualified white ppl and unqualified minorities replace asians alike. The reason asians blame affirmative action is because it sets quotas for number of minorities in a given admission process. This works out extremely well for under qualified minorities while it severely fcks asians. Look at what happened to the Universities in California and their race ratios when they got rid of the said practice. Anecdotally, an asian girl in my school marked herself as Hispanic (born in Argentina) in her application and got in with 1800 SAT scores (asians in our school in general have 2300+).

AGAIN, I do think affirmative action of a sort is necessary (probably not race based). However, you have to recognize that someone is getting screwed when an under-qualified candidate gets admitted. I think it is rational that someone will be annoyed when you say that it is laughable that the dude that got screwed is salty.

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Aug 11, 2018

1.) You're not doing a very good job of simply understanding what I am saying. Work on your reading comprehension. Asians, in general, regardless of weeding people out or otherwise, get the benefit of the doubt. When a guy walks in a room and is Asian people generally assume he is more intelligent than the average person. This is in life not in some sort of admissions situation. This provides a societal advantage. The burden of proof is shifted from them needing to prove intelligence to them needing to prove lack of intelligence, that is a huge advantage. Same goes for work ethic. I, on the other hand, have the burden of proof shifted in the total opposite direction. This provides a societal disadvantage.

2.) Chill out. Go look at percentages, unqualified whites displace qualified Asians at a higher rate than minorities. In fact, your UCB numbers bear that out. I will say this every time, when you come out against AA come out against legacy admissions and come out against this inner good ol' boy network that minorities are left out of. Essentially, keep that same energy. When you limit your vitriol to AA and ignore those other factors then it's one-sided. From a pure total numbers perspective, Asians would be far better off displacing unqualified whites, there are more of them.

While you keep your attention on AA, those same networks are the reason Asians are so accomplished academically yet they consistently hit a glass ceiling when it comes to attaining management/ executive positions. In this scenario, the stereotype that they are not Type A outgoing individuals hurts them (and, of course, it generally isn't a minority that is getting those positions either).

p.s. If you know my post history then you'll know that I support income-based affirmative action (although that won't help most Asians, as they are the highest income demographic in the country).

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Aug 9, 2018
  1. I think its your comprehension that has issues (or maybe my writing skills). I'm saying that the stereotype is a result of asians being smarter in general in given groups (generally in college). I am saying that I don't see this as a positive because we are getting fcked while these "helpful" stereotypes form. I would much rather go to Harvard and prove that I am smart than attend my top 15 school and have people think I'm smart from the get-go.
  2. Must be easy to say chill out when you are not getting smashed. I've already made my point that Asians are getting fcked by whites and minorities. I'm not proposing to accept less minorities. I'm simply explaining how AA is fckin asians up because you said it is laughable to blame AA. Maybe you should read your own comments before commenting on my reading comprehension.
  3. I'm not sure what your point is with your management paragraph. Also, did you just say that AA is the reason why Asians are so accomplished? I really hope its my shitty reading comprehension because that would be a flat out dumb comment.
Aug 11, 2018

It is your shitty reading comprehension that somehow led you to ask me if I said AA is the reason Asians are so accomplished (anyone that read what I posted in a thorough manner would not ask this question). I think this conversation is done. I've made my thoughts clear. How you choose to (mis)read them is up to you.

Aug 8, 2018

@ResearchLackey19 He's talking about the 'good ol' boy networks', bro. Relax.

He is saying that these networks of great social/human capital are the same networks that tend to prevent more Asians from breaking the glass ceiling and having a stronger presence in executive-level positions.

Aug 16, 2018

Stereotypes aren't good but there is some truth in all stereotypes. Instead of speaking like that you should recognize your own weaknesses and try to do better. Smart and competent person will always do well.

Aug 17, 2018

I do agree that Asians have it hard, but I'm curious--why does the blame for limited spots for Asians get placed on affirmative action? Isn't the issue more so that people, purposefully or not, put a cap on the number of Asians they're willing to take in, but not whites? At the end of the day, I think its the ceiling that's being put on Asians that's the issue and not the 5 diversity spots. No one says there's "too many" qualified Caucasian candidates, but that has unjustifiably been a point of contention with Asians.

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Aug 9, 2018

Good question. Honestly a lot of this is speculative because college admission process is not publicly disclosed. There is speculation that quota on Asian student was placed with the affirmative action when it took place. Basically a number of asians have been thinking that there is a number of spots that are available for different race and this works well for races with under qualified applicants. The reason why I believe this is the case is because of the California case study. Number of Asian students went up when California abolished AA in 1996. If AA had nothing to do with the quota, the number of asian students should not have increased disproportionately. That's why a lot of asian kids think AA is fckin them up.

Aug 17, 2018

So, if I understand this correctly, you're saying that it's a commonly held belief (and perhaps fact), that at least some affirmative action policies actively institute racial quotas not just for people of color, but for all minorities? I'd be interested to know if this is the policy at most academic institutions... and how affirmative action policies in academics differ from affirmative action policies in the work place.

Just out of curiosity, if what you said is true, shouldn't the real outrage be that these institutions are formally capping the quota of Asians to ensure that the status quo white demographic isn't displaced? Blacks make up what... 11-14% of the U.S. population? And of that #, what % are actually competing for slots in these schools? My intuition says that the net impact is more under qualified white students displace qualified Asian students..

Aug 11, 2018

Random data points, but I'll share what I've seen, especially at associate / VP level
- As a female, especially if you have kids it's tough from perception perspective. I've seen others complain about why the female colleague can go / work from home vs rest (not that there is any set rule) or have easier accounts. From firm perspective there is support. From actual individuals at same level, think there is a lack of sympathy. Don't see anyone going after guys because they had a family member pass away.
- I've also seen individuals not only mention minority status as a driver for hiring, but also a reason as why someone might have been ranked / paid higher. My view is that ranking stuff is always a crap shoot and very few are happy, but I also don't think the banks actively try to mess w it based on sex / gender. It's more likely that someone threw you under the bus
- I would also say banks are more flexible with females taking time off (eg for kids) and still be on track for promotion, etc. I've also seen male colleagues being disgruntled about it. For all these, I think the same males would have very different perspective if someone treated their wife and sister same way

Above include both black and non-black females.

Overall don't think it's easy being a female / minority in banking. Take a look around. From VP level and up, it suddenly becomes very male (mostly white, followed by Asian/Indian). Given the competitive nature, any time someone feels slighted (in theory half will be be ranked below average), they'll find any excuse, and blaming someone's gender, race is easier than trying to self reflect on own shortcomings.

I don't have a good answer on what's the solution. The job itself is demanding from hour and travel perspective as you keep moving up, and it's tough to balance for anyone. There are obviously many examples of success despite these obstacles. Tbh recruiting is just entry. After 3/4 years only 20-30% of an associate class survive. Question is who survives after 10 years.

Another interesting thing is if someone underperforms, for minorities it's always the fault of affirmative action. When it's a white guy w fratty moves and referral underperforming - no one says it as a cause

For those being grumpy about losing recruiting spot - if you are hoping to break in with 5-10% that are going to minority candidate and couldn't compete with the regular 90% - what makes you think you'll be successful enough anyway. You're probably going to be somewhere below average in the class given you didn't make it in with the vast majority.

Among all the analysts I've worked with over the years - female analysts are as good, if not better than male ones in my experience.

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Aug 11, 2018

Just to add as well... What people fail to understand is that minority based recruiting events aren't just hiring someone because of their skin color. These are very much capable individuals coming from ivy league schools, people who have started their own funds, etc. They are very much top tier applicants (but this is a discussion for another time).

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Aug 11, 2018

hopeless discussion

Aug 11, 2018

Not sure what you are trying to imply - but as I mentioned above, an Estonian or German ancestry person won't be judged based on that factor if they out or underperform. Unfortunately, the way things are, there are significant perception issues with females / blacks / Hispanics in finance.

No one has a problem when the white guy goes drinking at 5. Everyone has a problem when the female leaves at 7 to be with kids.

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Aug 8, 2018

These are nationalities, not one of the main racial/ethnic categories.

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Aug 11, 2018

hopeless discussion

Aug 8, 2018

You're doing too much if you have to quote online dictionaries to prove your point. It's an online forum, not a term paper.

Though Estonian-American is is an ethnicity, it is not a MAJOR racial/ethnic category. You are making your argument too niche by focusing on a small subgroup within a major group. The equivalent would be me asking how difficult is must be for Cameroonian-American women to enter the industry. The argument is too specific. Now if you rephrased your question from Philippine-American to Asian-American, then your argument and mine are more comparable.

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Aug 11, 2018

hopeless discussion

Aug 8, 2018

1) Idk how you could actually be confused by what I'm saying. Either you're annoying af to prove your point or just dumb as shit.

Major ethnic categories:
Hispanic/Latino American, White/European American, Black/African American, Native American, Asian American, Pacific Islander, Middle Eastern American

It is not about whether the category is a minority but the point that it is one of the major categories listed on a census.

2) I asked the question to hear people's experiences. No more, no less.. Your train of logic is not even following. My OP is titled Black women so I am not here to debate the definition of the word 'minority.'

3) I'm not sure what unrelated point you are trying to make with the Cameroonian bit.

4) It was a question to hear if the industry is more/less biased than some people assume.

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Aug 13, 2018

edited

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Aug 8, 2018

Not surprised by this stereotypical post given your previous low-quality, race-baiting topic

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Aug 13, 2018

edit.

Aug 8, 2018

Nope, just disappointed.

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Aug 11, 2018

Why respond to an obvious troll? Some battles, you just don't fight.

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Aug 8, 2018

The number of racist incels in this thread is amazing.

Aug 9, 2018
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