Black Women in IB - Experiences?

Like actual people?..

bump!

You should probably just connect with diversity program alum on LinkedIn. Doubt you find a lot of responses on here.

In my class of 50, we had one African-American woman recruiting for IB. I'm a POC myself, but a male. I knew that she had double the barriers to jump over, but she also had more bites at the apple. There are a lot more diversity specific recruiting programs, but many of them happen before the general cycle and if you're not prepared, you miss out on them.

I hope you find your fit and you feel comfortable coming into IB. This industry needs it, and the value of your unique perspective and insights should allow you to make a real contribution.

Lol why the random monkey shit?

Sadly, any relevant threads are few and far between. The only ones I've come across are from 2017 and 2015 - a number of the responses and their tone are less than helpful.

https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/succeeding-as-a-minority-female

https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/wall-street-womengirls

One of my best friends has been in banking and finance for over 2 decades and is a black woman, born in London, raised in the US, all her schooling/work career in the US.

She’s had both good and bad experiences in her schooling and working lives, has experienced both overt and subtle racism/bias. She and I have worked together at several firms over the years and I can tell you as an observer there are always going to be some people who will want to mentor you and some people will want as little to do with you as possible. I saw her both get passed up for promotions that she was deserving of at times, but also saw her given wonderful work opportunities.

If you'd like, send me a private message and I can see about putting you two in touch if you’d like to pick her brain. Actually, I just saw your 'daily limit' comment, so I will drop you a PM.

bankerella2 is a minority too and can probably help you.

Very hard to talk about those things here knowing the lack of diversity this site have. Just because there is diversity program that does not mean that at the end of the day firms hire more people of diverse background. Are firms making progress on hiring diverse candidates? Yes. Is there still more to be done? Yes. Is it bad for non diversity applicants from non target schools? Yes. But until firms understand that all applicants should be treated equally, there will still be a need for diversity programs, because in a general Superdays it is more likely that a non diversity candidate gets the job because of knowing someone at the firm or having a deeper connection with the senior interviewer who in most cases have the same background.

PM me. I'll connect you with one of my mentors, she worked at two BB's for a couple of years.

This thread shows what a cesspool this site is.

I think people from "disadvantaged" backgrounds always are going to have it tough. I have a friend who's pure African and is a very talented and knowledgeable person. Easy a top bucket and unfortunately the amount of times I hear other people bring up affirmative action or some other similar BS in regards to him completely undermines his qualities and like I said hes top bucket, I can only imagine what it must be like for an average performer.

I personally do not believe in affirmative action as everyone should get positions on merit. The sad truth is we do need it as at least in my experience the offices I have worked in are nearly all white western male Europeans.

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This thread is exactly what I thought it would be. Let me make this clear: yes, minority hiring programs give minorities an advantage, IN THAT SPECIFIC ASPECT. No, that does not mean minorities have an OVERALL advantage when it comes to recruiting AT ALMOST ANY TYPE OF JOB. The evidence overwhelmingly points to minorities being at a disadvantage, regardless of minority outreach programs. People who deny this are either a.) intellectually dishonest or b.) ignorant. I generally hope for ignorance because intellectual dishonesty in this case would implicate malicious intent (you know minorities are disadvantaged but trumpet that they are advantaged for nefarious reasons). To the poster who mentioned poor Asians/ whites, that's a fair argument, but their race still conveys them societal advantages that a minority of any income level simply cannot rely on. That said, I'm happy to acknowledge that there needs to be more income based hiring programs.

Random data points, but I’ll share what I’ve seen, especially at associate / VP level - As a female, especially if you have kids it’s tough from perception perspective. I’ve seen others complain about why the female colleague can go / work from home vs rest (not that there is any set rule) or have easier accounts. From firm perspective there is support. From actual individuals at same level, think there is a lack of sympathy. Don’t see anyone going after guys because they had a family member pass away. - I’ve also seen individuals not only mention minority status as a driver for hiring, but also a reason as why someone might have been ranked / paid higher. My view is that ranking stuff is always a crap shoot and very few are happy, but I also don’t think the banks actively try to mess w it based on sex / gender. It’s more likely that someone threw you under the bus - I would also say banks are more flexible with females taking time off (eg for kids) and still be on track for promotion, etc. I’ve also seen male colleagues being disgruntled about it. For all these, I think the same males would have very different perspective if someone treated their wife and sister same way

Above include both black and non-black females.

Overall don’t think it’s easy being a female / minority in banking. Take a look around. From VP level and up, it suddenly becomes very male (mostly white, followed by Asian/Indian). Given the competitive nature, any time someone feels slighted (in theory half will be be ranked below average), they’ll find any excuse, and blaming someone’s gender, race is easier than trying to self reflect on own shortcomings.

I don’t have a good answer on what’s the solution. The job itself is demanding from hour and travel perspective as you keep moving up, and it’s tough to balance for anyone. There are obviously many examples of success despite these obstacles. Tbh recruiting is just entry. After 3/4 years only 20-30% of an associate class survive. Question is who survives after 10 years.

Another interesting thing is if someone underperforms, for minorities it’s always the fault of affirmative action. When it’s a white guy w fratty moves and referral underperforming - no one says it as a cause

For those being grumpy about losing recruiting spot - if you are hoping to break in with 5-10% that are going to minority candidate and couldn’t compete with the regular 90% - what makes you think you’ll be successful enough anyway. You’re probably going to be somewhere below average in the class given you didn’t make it in with the vast majority.

Among all the analysts I’ve worked with over the years - female analysts are as good, if not better than male ones in my experience.

edited

The number of racist incels in this thread is amazing.

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I don't want to touch this subject with a 100 foot pole but I empathize a lot with the position you are in and you don't seem like a troll.

My advice is to give deference to your office's culture, avoid conversations like this thread at all costs, and most importantly, be undeniably good at your job. These days you could very well end up in a bullpen where the people you work with are perfectly fine and your faith in humanity is uplifted, but if that isn't the case you'll have to avoid giving any detractors reason to criticize you.

Basically, accept that it will be harder for you and use it as motivation but never an excuse. Let your work speak for itself. It is definitely unfair, but only people like you can make it fair for future generations.

Hello! Black woman in IB here.

I would need a few more specifics to offer you a more detailed - and applicable - answer but generally two things are true in almost all cases I have seen: a) black women are in high demand at the junior stages b) more often than not they either quit or are pushed out before hitting vice president. Note there are a number of exceptions to that rule. Work environments are already hostile as many of these jobs are incredibly competitive while compensation continues to dwindle (lightly compared to even 5 years, exponentially compared to 10-20 years ago). There is sexism, racism and a number of other "isms" you can expect to face. Questions about your hair, your background and your credibility are commonplace. It's worth noting these issues can often be much worse in other sectors like technology. My advice is to address it when necessary, ignore it when not. Whichever you choose in any given moment, please don't let it make you sweat. Any hostility typically comes from the most *insecure* person on the team, rarely the *most* secure which is something to keep in mind. Generally in this industry, people are often looking for cheap shots, that would still hold true if you were any other race, creed, etc.

The good good news...other Black women in this industry are generally very open and supportive (can only speak to front office roles). We are happy to offer advice, a shoulder to lean on and / or guidance on inappropriate behavior. That network will be important for you to both develop and maintain.

Finally, in order to progress, you will have to make the naive - and admittedly often false - assumption that only your work (and not your race) is being taken into consideration. This is a common defense tactic for a number of women in multiple fields. Why? It WORKS. Paul looked at you funny? He either had a bad day or you need to step it up. Rick didn't want you on his deal team? He either had a bad day, had a better rapport with another junior or you need to step it up. Joel didn't let you join a call? He either had a bad day, there was no reason to or....you guessed it, you need to step it up. At worst, this will make you an EXCELLENT banker with a plethora of options should you ever need to exit and at best this will turn you into a well-compensated and supported star on your team. If necessary, walk into your office "with the confidence of a white man". This is advice I was given by a Black, female, IB vet. Don't overthink it, that broadly means simply walk into work, make friends, do your work incredibly well and don't assume everyone has a negative thought they're waiting to dole out. Typically, these guys are thinking about what they're going to order from Seamless, Postmates or DoorDash that evening and whether or not they'll leave the office at a reasonable time...very rarely you. I hope that helps. I don't know you but I'll assume you're incredibly smart and capable. I AM ROOTING FOR YOU!

Grl, you got this..keep hustling

I am a minority. i won’t say it wasn't comfortable not having many women around me, and when there is, they are mostly blond white women who don’t look like me. Having said that, when I joined the women network, I realized that women from all groups want to be together and unite. I put all women together in one bucket. We realize that we are not the majority in IB, and indirectly have each other’s back. When I see my female associate having a tough time with the guys or that they’re not listening to her, I am like hey guys are we going to that thing she asked for. She helps me out too. All female MDs no matter where they’re from, are willing to help and give advice. Mine always push me to be more assertive. Don’t keep thinking minority and non minority, all women have the same issue and 90 percent of the time they are all equally friendly. Put in perspective as well that first years might be coming from different states, probably grew up in smaller areas, maybe they didn’t have to deal with one type of minority, that doesn’t make them racist. When I broke the ice, they became very friendly. So in conclusion: join your women network, meet other women senior and junior, have small bathroom talks, and ask senior women to be your mentors. This will make you confident and they will give you tips on how to blend with your team