Breaking into China for someone who prob can't even break into US
So basically, I want to get at a job in China. I'm currently about to start my last semester at a state school that's not much of a target for anything. I'll end up graduating with a BS in biology, a BA in economics, and a math minor. Kinda weird, I know, but when I started college I thought I'd do medicine. My GPA isn't that stellar, about the only thing I have going for me are high standardized test scores and being a National Merit finalist, which I guess can serve as a sign for companies (here in the states) that I'm not the average idiot graduating from a no-name school. I've been studying Chinese for almost 2 years but with me not being of Chinese extraction (I'm an immigrant from e. europe) my Chinese language skills are too irrelevant to matter until I actually live in China for some time.
My eventual end-goal is to work in high finance in the Asia Pacific market. I realize that at this point I can't dream of landing an IB job after graduation even here in the US let alone China, so my vague plan is to go live and hopefully work in China for a few years, learn the langugage, make the connections, maybe go to a top Asian business school and then join IB at an associate level. Or something. Frankly, I'd be willing to settle for less than bulge bracket banking so long as the pay is good and I'm based in Asia.
So with that said, what's my best move going forward after graduation? I'd like to go to China as soon as possible after I graduate cause I'm not getting any younger. Initially I'm willing to work in any industry as long as it's not joining the rank of losers teaching english. Is there any realistic hope of someone in my situation of being a fresh college grad with weak Chinese actually getting a real job in China? Would I be better served trying to get a job here in the US and then trying to ass-kiss my way to a China posting, or go to China and then try to get a job? I hope I did a good enough job of conveying my situation/goals, basically I’m looking for any advice as to what kind of strategy to use. Sorry for the long-winded post.
well, you didn't go to a great school and you don't speak very much chinese, but you want work in china in a non-english teaching role.
to be honest, i would advise you to try to get into an mba program here and then apply for jobs in asia, but that's just my 2 cents. pretty tough to find a job in china in finance when you don't have much chinese background.
Agree with guts , you'd be competing not only with Chinese citizens who speak fluent Chinese (by fluent I mean fluent enough to use in an IB environment), but also Chinese citizens who came to the States and went to target schools. I think your best bet is to get solid work experience, get into a good MBA program, and then attempt to get a job in Asia later on.
Have youu tried gold farming?
Have you been to China before, either as a tourist or study abroad?
i agree with the above. there is no shortage of manpower in china. 28% of college grads there this past year couldn't find a job by august
May I ask why you want to work in Asia-Pacific? Please don't say Yellow Fever.
You are going to get mauled there. I'd like to tell you something more pleasant, but plenty of ABCs or other overseas Chinese go over there thinking they are going to take over the joint and they get eaten alive before they even had a chance to crap out the last Big Mac they had outside the Middle Kingdom. You need to step in with heavy academic cred or some native-level knowledge of the language and culture to even make it worth your while. If you do, best of luck to you because you will need it. If you do not, the firms that deny your application will be doing you a favor in ways you cannot even comprehend.
Take this from someone whose uncles went to Japan when it was the hot thing in the '80s. China is 10x more cutthroat toward outsiders, and believe me son, there is no one more outside than you.
No, I've never been to China. I've lived in Europe and N. America, and now for the immediate future I want to check out Asia. There are many reasons for this, besides the obvious one of the China market being red hot and developing at a stunning pace. Yeah I like the women, although I know many guys with proper "yellow fever" and I wouldn't go nearly so far as to call it that. Frankly my desire to go east is based less on any logical arguments and more on an ill defined urge. Nevertheless the urge exists, so I'm in a situation where any further time I spend in the US will seem like an annoying interlude until such a time that I go live in Asia.
I definitely agree with you guys that the smartest thing, from a purely career standpoint, would be to try and get the best job possible in the US and then try to parlay it into business school and the such. The problem with that strategy, from my point of view, is that I want to go to China NOW, not in a few years. The reason why I am about to choose to forgo medical school (my MCAT is more than adequate) is that I don't want to keep delaying doing the things I want to do until some "later time" that may never arrive.
Anyway, that's more than enough personal agonizing. So you guys think it's basically impossible for me to get a job of any sort in China, other than teacher, as I currently stand? Not that I disagree, that's basically what I already feared anyway. How about this question: assuming I want to end up with a finance job in Asia with a top Western organization, which of the following two paths is better:
1) I graduate, work for a year or so in the US and hopefully save a few tens of thousands of dollars, then go and live in China for a year just trying to make my money last as long as possible, maybe teaching English to help with that, as well as doing some kind of BS that may look good on a business school application. This period is to help me buttress the language skills I have started to acquire in the classroom, and after a year I apply and hopefully get accepted to a top Asian business school like HKU or Insead's Singapore branch.
2) I work in the US, then after a year or two I apply to business school here in the states, hopefully I get accepted to a great one. I know my GMAT score will be pretty awesome, don't wanna brag but I've never taken a standardized test I did not score in the 99th percentile on. Anyway, a good GMAT is what I'm banking on for my Asian business school hopes as well.
It seems to me that strategy 1 is more logical assuming it's not just banking but banking in Asia that I'm after. Am I right to think so, or does pursuing a totally US based early career and then education a la strategy 2 have some advantages that I'm unaware of? Thanks for the feedback guys.
Just another point for you to consider is that, as rough as the hours in US/European IB are, they are significantly worse in Asia until you reach the VP level or so. Combine that with the fact that it is much easier to lateral from the US to Asia than vice-versa, and it seems fairly clear to me that something along the line of your #2 is probably more reasonable, although your US stay would probably be longer than you think right now.
Sounds like you want to go to Asia for the sake of going to Asia and that career is a secondary consideration for you. My advice: GO NOW!
Screw banging your head against the wall trying to get into IB and planning 5+ years in advance. Take it from someone who worked in IB: It sucks. Honestly, things never work out the way you planned and it sounds like you're environment is infinitely more important to you than your career. Start with teaching English if that's all you're qualified for. You may fall flat on your face and you may absolutely love it. If you want until after b-school you will have less time to recover from a big failure. Go make the mistakes now and keep b-school as your backup in case things go sour. You said it yourself, if you keep waiting for the opportune time to move to Asia, it will never come.
Why specifically China?
Those telling you that it is impossible to get a job in China other than teaching English are flat out wrong. Yes without language fluency at top grades, you won't be working at a bulge bracket, but who cares its not the end all be all that some on this board make it out to be. There are plenty of jobs, both finance and non-finance related, out there that you can get. You just have to do some digging to find them. Reach out to alumni from your Chinese program that are working over there and find out what they are doing. Google search, etc.
Another thing you may want to consider if you have your heart set on working in China is delaying your graduation and doing a study abroad program or internship over there for the summer or fall semester. It's a risk-free way to get your feet wet in China and help figure out whether you would want to live there longer-term or not. Your first time over you will go through the cycle of culture shock no matter how much you've studied the country and the language in the US. And if it turns out that you don't really like the place, you won't be locked into a job you don't like and/or a country you don't want to live in.
And to the point about Chinese people being cutthroat toward foreigners, the exact opposite is true. Every single person I've ever met in China has been more than welcoming to me. You need to have a genuine interest in the culture and language though to get anywhere though.
If you want to go to China, go to China. You have your whole life to be a slave to a bulge bracket in NY. Have a backup plan though.
My advice is work for an american global firm and perform well. They will transfer you to an asia office if you really want it.
But if language is the issue, go to Hong Kong. Tons of my white wharton friends went knowing basically no mandarin or canto. Their employers were Brits. And you can enjoy the hong kong girls and nightlife, it's much better than china imo, and i've experienced shanghai. Hong kong is great fun, and English is widely spoken.
Thanks guys. A few more questions. First, I know that in IB, you can request to be placed in your bank's Asia office straight out from undergrad, I'm assuming even if you don't know any Asian languages. At this point I have no shot at getting to IB straight out of college due to non target status/no relevant internships/etc. Are there any kinds of finance/business jobs out there that offer similar possibilites vis a vis an Asia posting? MIddle office, ops, management, fortune 500 corp finance, whatever.
Second, with the stats I'm about to detail, what's the best kind of job I could hope to get here in the states, assuming high finance after work exp/B school is my ultimate goal.
College : Top 50 reserearch university, unfortunately a no name state school. Majors: Economics, Biology, math minor GPA: Oh boy. Cumulative is utter crap, I'll be lucky to get it to 3.2 by the time I graduate next semester. Major GPA's : Econ 3.7, Biology 3.4 Standardized Test scores: ACT 33, also can put down National Merit Semifinalist on resume I have a lot of work experience, unfortunately it's the usual college job type bullshido. For extraculliculars, I was an officer in my uni's finance club, also did a year of genetic research in a professors lab. Language skills: Native level English, Polish, and intermediate Mandarin.
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