Can I go humanities (no econ) --> MBA -> PhD in Econ?

Hi friends,

I did my undergrad at Harvard in Women's Studies. I am currently working in consulting at MBB and hope to attend Stanford's GSB in two years.

I would like to work a few years after that, and then return to school for my PhD in Econ, if possible. Does anyone know if this is a possibility, considering that I took only intro econ as an undergrad?

SBs to solid answers, thanks!

 

yeah blastoise is right, you need a serious math background for a phd in econ. It would be good to have taken intermediate micro, and macro and a course in econometrics. Linear Algebra would be the bare minimum you need to enter a phd program. Real analysis is one class that they really want you to have before applying. topology, and mathematical statistics/probability would make you better prepared. And you will need a high GRE score(close to 800 quantitative) to be accepted with funding to a decent program.

 

MBA is almost zero Math. Econ PhD requires high level of Math, specially calculus (PDE for Micro) and Statistics (for Econometrics). There are research areas of Econ such as Industrial Organization, Labor Economics, Experimental Economics (Psychology part of Game Theory) which require very little Math and are easy to do. Unfortunately, before you get to the research, you still need to do the PhD courses and pass the comps in Micro, Macro, Econometrics, and one subject area. This is all heavy-duty Math. If you want PhD, think Finance and specially Behavioral Finance. Tak to the professors in the MBA program about it. It will be easy for you to get admission and also get a faculty position at a top B-school. I am not going to explain why because a lot of people on this forum will get angry at me.

 

also in case your not trolling OP(which is les than 1% IMHO).

You did women studies.

If you had any intellectual or mathematical inclination in you whatsoever you would have quit that subject 3 months in and stabbed your eyeballs with rusty nails to eradicate such utter bullshit from your retina.

Seeing that you did not, you are incredibly dumb and definetly cannot do anywhere near enough math to do an econ phd.

/thread

 

99.9% sure you're trolling, but what the hell, I'll bite.

Just based of very simple prerequisites you can't just "do" the prereqs for an econ PhD. Let me put it this way, we'll just assume you would be starting in calc1 (considering it's womens studies I bet lower). You cannot take Calc1,2,3 in the same semester, that alone is three semesters minimum, and that is just the foundational classes that MIGHT give you a chance to get in. After that you would have to take an upper level statistics, Differential Equations, Linear Algebra, and real analysis (which often has its own pre-reqs). Assuming you have the cerebral capacity to handle that much math, and I'll just assume you do, you are looking at a solid 2 years working just on prereqs to meet the bare minimum required to get into, and do well in (more importantly obviously) a PhD program. Also, an MBA will do little to nothing at helping you get into a good program, if anything they will question what the hell you're collecting degrees for. If this is something you truly want to pursue than by all means, more power to you, but you are taking the entirely wrong approach to it. Also, with that little teeny bit of econ coursework you actually have little to no idea what Economics actually is. If you are truly interested, i would suggest reading these books to decide if Economics is something you really want to pursue at a high academic level.

Capitalism and Freedom- Milton Friedman The Worldly Philosophers- Robert Heilbroner Peddling Prosperity- Paul Krugman The Armchair Economist- Steven Landsburg Eat the Rich- P.J O'Rourke A Random Walk Down Wall Street- Burton Malkiel Freakonomics- Steven Levitt and Stephen Dubner (Just for fun) Reinventing the Bazaar- John McMillan

This list gives you a little taste of what Economics at an academic and practical level actually is. I would sincerely suggest picking up a couple of these before wasting years of your life on something that (there is probably a good chance) you won't actually like that much anyways.

 

Thanks for all your input, everyone.

I did indeed do Women's Studies, my focus being Queer Studies (LGBT-studies / history / social theory). In high school I was a national qualifying mathlete, bridge-builder, engineering geek with a perfect on my SAT math, so to the naysayers who suggest I couldn't cut a more quant-y major, well, fuck you. I decided on Queer Studies because I wanted a radical department to give me a lens through which to best critique the world. I wanted to be a journalist. Then I tried journalism, and hated it.

Now that I'm out of the academy and into the real world, I'm sort of regretting my decision not to study engineering, computer science, or especially Econ, because it's with these tools that people are really changing the world.

Oh my Gosh I hated Capitalism and Freedom, I enjoy Paul Krugman's articles in the NYTimes, Freakanomics was fun, and Eat the Rich as well. I shall check out the others, thanks!

 

Here is my 2 cents on this issue:

First of all, there really is no "easy" route in economics, as far as math goes. In fact, I would argue that Industrial Org, and labor economics as being some of the more math-oriented research areas. At the same time, I havent really dealt with experimental economics. Perhaps I just went to a weird school...

Second, OP, have you thought about just going to a masters program? There are a few masters in applied economics (MAE) programs out there that require only 2 semesters (sometimes even just 1) of math, which includes through calc 2 and linear algebra only. Given this, and your background as being a harvard grad (despite the womens studies...) you might be able to get into some half-rate MAE program and then transfer to a PhD program once you are getting the hang of econ. Just an idea..

 
Best Response
Old Grand-Dad:
A graduate degree in math or statistics is great preparation for an econ phd, but the problem is that it will have similar prerequisites to the econ PhD ie real analysis, linear algebra
It will actually have way more prereqs as far as math courses are concerned. Linear Algebra/Real Analysis is the least of your worries - to enter a good graduate degree in math, you need to take general topology/algebraic topology/a solid course on rings, fields, and groups/measure theory/functional analysis/ode/pde/at least an intro to analytic number theory etc. And each of these courses have their own prereqs. I think for an econ phd, measure theory/ode/pde/stochastic processes/time series analysis should be the bare minimum foundation. If you want to go into micro, then you need more analysis and a bit of topology - there are quite a few fixed point theorem type results in micro.
-MBP
 

Update with info from the non internetz world.

After doing an MBA, I could definitely apply to and get accepted into PhD programs in Econ. One needs great recs, test scores, and proposed topic of study, of course. Probably even more so than someone who came from a pure Econ background (say, in UG). However, the pre-reqs y'all discussed above are pre-reqs to finish the program, not to get in. One could complete this coursework in the first two years.

This coming from a PhD student friend of mine.

Cheers.

 
persimmon:
Update with info from the non internetz world.

After doing an MBA, I could definitely apply to and get accepted into PhD programs in Econ. One needs great recs, test scores, and proposed topic of study, of course. Probably even more so than someone who came from a pure Econ background (say, in UG). However, the pre-reqs y'all discussed above are pre-reqs to finish the program, not to get in. One could complete this coursework in the first two years.

This coming from a PhD student friend of mine.

Cheers.

Okay, I thought I was nice at first but now I'm getting frustrated, and I will justify that frustration. You have absolutely positively no inkling of an idea what you're getting yourself into. I don't know if it is a typical Harvard student trait to think that they are gods cerebral gift to all academia, but I am telling you right now that you being good at math in high school means dick. This is coming from another math rockstar who took 4 years off of math in college, and I can tell you that you don't remember anything at all, it is quite literally a use it or lose it subject, and you will be starting from the beginning. You don't appreciate at all the quantitative nature of an Economics degree, maybe it's because some schools like to classify it as a social science, I don't know, but if you need a reference point, on a scale of 1-10 in quantitative similarities, Management/Political Science being a 1 and Mechanical Engineering/Physics being a 10, Economics is around a 6 at the Undergraduate level, an 8 at the graduate level, and a 10+ at the doctoral level. Quite frankly, and in the nicest way I can possibly say this, you are completely ignorant of what you are asking, and obviously have already made up your mind in doing. If you even take a gander at what graduate level economics coursework looks like it will make you go cross-eyed at the depth of the mathematics involved, and this is coming from someone who has a BS in econ and has gone through Calculus-3. Maybe you understand why you have been met with hostility here, but If not than allow me to explain. Most of the people here have dedicated significant amounts of our life in the pursuit of an education in both Mathematics, Economics, Finance etc. and for everyone at some time or another it has been a very difficult journey. It is downright offensive that a random person with a degree the completely non-quantitative degree of Women's Studies, regardless of where it came from, so readily degrades the difficulty of the subject we have dedicated so much time to by just assuming, and arguing that you can get a DOCTORATE in the subject like it's no big deal, based off the highly subjective, and untested, notion that you are a math savant because you were good at it in high school, as if anything in high school can even be slightly considered difficult.

Why you will fail is quite simple. The theories and applications at the PhD level are far deeper than anything you will read in any book you will find at Barnes & Noble or Borders(RIP), and you will be spending such a disproportionate amount of your time just trying to figure out the math you won't be spending any time learning the economics. Here is a piece of advice I would seriously sleep on. If you are truly dedicate, and hell-bent on getting a PhD in Economics, than so be it, more power to you and your ambitions. However getting an MBA first and diving right in is foolish to the point that very intelligent, accomplished people on these boards are giving you real life eye-rolls. The correct path to a PhD would be to go back, and get, if not a second bachelors, than at least a substantial amount of Mathematics under your belt, than applying to the PhD program where you will actually succeed, for no other reason than now you will be approaching it with the appropriate tools to do so.

 
persimmon:
Update with info from the non internetz world.

After doing an MBA, I could definitely apply to and get accepted into PhD programs in Econ. One needs great recs, test scores, and proposed topic of study, of course. Probably even more so than someone who came from a pure Econ background (say, in UG). However, the pre-reqs y'all discussed above are pre-reqs to finish the program, not to get in. One could complete this coursework in the first two years.

This coming from a PhD student friend of mine.

Cheers.

Please go for the PhD. And please maintain a blog. I can't wait to read about your nervous breakdown.

All jokes aside, you will never get into a good econ PhD program (unless you get a second undergrad). Outside top 50 maybe. But then, why would you do a PhD at a school outside the top 50 (or top 20 for that matter)? You won't get a tenure track position anywhere.

-MBP
 

OP, there is a lot of ass-hattery in this thread, but everyone here is speaking the truth. Unless you eat, shit, and sleep advanced mathematics, an econ phd will bend you over. At best an mba is a completely unrelated degree. Why bother with it if you're ultimate goal is an econ phd? You'd be wasting your time. Sharpen up your math skills at a local university and get into an masters program like Duke's or the econometrics one at LSE. Only then should you start thinking phd.

 

My economics professor told me that by the time someone finishes an economics PhD, they've done enough math to qualify for a math major. He also said that more people from math/science/engineering attempt economics PhDs than actual economics/business/commerce kids.

Where the fuck is your math major, OP? Unlike "Women's Studies" or "Political Science" or whatever, finance (along with engineering, medicine, computer science etc.) is a non-bullshit field, meaning the "lens through which to critique the world" you gained through your "Queer Studies" doesn't count for shit.

Also, keep in mind that all of highschool = bullshit and it's ridiculously easy to be a "mathlete" or get a 4.0 GPA simply by doing around 2 hours of work outside of school per day.

My honest suggestion? Go for an MBA at a top 20 school. You don't need more. You honestly don't need a PhD in econ, but hey...don't let any of us dissuade you! (By the way, econ PhDs aren't changing the world, only a select inner circle)

I'm stoked this fine day.
 

Okay, I'm a dude. I didn't major in Women's Studies, I was being facetious; it was Anthropology with a focus on queer studies and globalization. It was at Harvard / Yale / Princeton. You can't get an interview at MBB because you've picked a typical route. You can be the very best of the typical, or you can stand out other ways.

I had a decent GPA in Anthropology, I speak a sexy foreign language, and I was selected for a very prestigious international research scholarship post graduation. I'm a published journalist, produced a short film, saved a man's life, am a first generation college student, am really tall and attractive (this totally matters, unfortunately), interview extremely well, studied hard for and absolutely crushed my case interviews, and am exceedingly personable.

This shit isn't easy. I'm a really fucking hard worker and have the balls to do what I want and then present the narrative in a way that makes sense. An anthropology major in MBB? Yeah, I did that.

I also left MBB because, guys, we can do better.

futurexreject:
Holy shit, this girl is majoring in women studies, and gets a job at MBB, but I'm an Econ/Math double major at a target and I can't land any interviews with MBB because of my shitty GPA.

I'm telling my children to major in Women's studies.

 
persimmon:
I had a decent GPA in Anthropology, I speak a sexy foreign language, and I was selected for a very prestigious international research scholarship post graduation. I'm a published journalist, produced a short film, saved a man's life, am a first generation college student, am really tall and attractive (this totally matters, unfortunately), interview extremely well, studied hard for and absolutely crushed my case interviews, and am exceedingly personable.
Only trolls can write shit like this.
 

if you want a phd in econ then a MBA is not the best route nor will it be useful for your post doctoral career. You should do a master abroad at somewhere like LSE or somewhere in the states where there's a research component to the master program. Most of your professors at business school will dismiss you because you are a MBA student and frankly you will not have the tools to assist them with research and get good recommendations. (getting an A in corporate accounting or w/e will do nothing for your chances at phd admission). You need to strengthen your math background first and foremost. Regardless I wish you luck cause your goal is noble.

 

(Assuming not a troll.) OK, this is Greg Mankiw, the Chairman of the Economics department on the math backgrounds of aspiring Econ PhDs:

"A student who wants to pursue a career in policy-related economics is advised to go to the best graduate school he or she can get into. The best graduate schools will expect to see a lot of math on your undergraduate transcript, so you need to take it. But will you use a lot of differential equations and real analysis once you land that dream job in a policy organization? No, you won't.

That raises the question: Why do we academics want students that have taken a lot of math? There are several reasons:

  1. Every economist needs to have a solid foundation in the basics of economic theory and econometrics, even if you are not going to be either a theorist or an econometrician. You cannot get this solid foundation without understanding the language of mathematics that these fields use.

  2. Occasionally, you will need math in your job. In particular, even as a policy economist, you need to be able to read the academic literature to figure out what research ideas have policy relevance. That literature uses a lot of math, so you will need to be equipped with mathematical tools to read it intelligently.

  3. Math is good training for the mind. It makes you a more rigorous thinker.

  4. Your math courses are one long IQ test. We use math courses to figure out who is really smart.

  5. Economics graduate programs are more oriented to training students for academic research than for policy jobs. Although many econ PhDs go on to policy work, all of us teaching in graduate programs are, by definition, academics. Some academics take a few years off to experience the policy world, as I did not long ago, but many academics have no idea what that world is like. When we enter the classroom, we teach what we know. (I am not claiming this is optimal, just reality.) So math plays a larger role in graduate classes than it does in many jobs that PhD economists hold.

Is it possible that admissions committees for econ PhD programs are excessively fond of mathematics on student transcripts? Perhaps. That is something I might argue with my colleagues about if I were ever put on the admissions committee. But a student cannot change that. The fact is, if you are thinking about a PhD program in economics, you are advised to take math courses until it hurts. "

He suggests taking (http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2006/05/which-math-courses.html)

Calculus Linear Algebra Multivariable Calculus Real Analysis Probability Theory Mathematical Statistics Game Theory Differential Equations

Like, you basically need an undergrad in Math to get into reputable PhD programs. An actual Econ undergrad won't get you in, regardless of how great your GPA is. A great GPA in Women's Studies doesn't tell the admission committee anything about your ability to do legitimately difficult quantitative work. I'd apply to a Masters at LSE or something and take a shitload of math if you're serious about this.

 

No one on this planet who proclaims himself to be a math genius in high school would be in his right mind doing women's studies in his college, unless he is from Mars. Anyway, good job in trolling !

 

Guys math importance is overinflated. Of course you need math to be competitive, but for students coming from Harvard etc the math is less a prereq. And once you get to math camp the math can actually be learned from scratch(as I've felt it could)...A masters is also a good stepping stone if you have no math. And for the record many, many people did an MBA prior to an Econ PhD. I'd do management PhD with an MBA though.

 

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"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger" - Mario Puzo
 

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