Chicago Prop Trading List
Hi all
Can somebody help me out with a list of what would be considered "top tier" prop shops in Chicago for options trading? I'm currently a sophomore at a target and would definitely like to go into equity options trading next year. A handful come to our career fair, but I didn't get the chance to talk to them this year.
I'm aware of many of the ones discussed from lurking the forum such as DRW, Transmarket, Optiver, Citadel, Peak6, Gelber Group, Belvedere, CTC, Wolverine, Akuna, Spot, Group One, etc. but aren't super familiar with what all of them trade. I'm also an econ major with a math minor, so I'm honestly probably not smart enough for one of those HFT firms with a super strong emphasis on math (like Jane Street?).
Does anybody have a list of what's most "prestigious" or shops are or the ones that are desirable within the equity options space? Not necessarily a ranking, I'd just like some insight into which shops are legit (i.e. not put up your own capital, good training, high base salary, etc.).
Whoever told you Gelber is a top options MM is on bath salts
I did notice that their base salary was kind of low (like 35-40k??) on Glassdoor so I was kind of weary of that lol
Jump, HRT (and it's affiliate Rigel Cove), Tower (and it's affiliates Latour, Spire-X, Spire Europe), JSC, Optiver, DRW, Teza, Headlands, Five Rings, Transmarket, Wolverine, CTC, Belvedere, Spot, Peak6, Volant, XR, Sun, Allston, IMC, Flow, Virtu, Tradebot (used to be big, not sure about anymore), Radix, KCG, SIG. As I was typing this I realized you said Chicago options MM, most of these are in CHI but a few of the HFTs like HRT and Tower and also JSC are NYC.
Citadel is a HF, Two Sigma is AM.
They primarily recruit STEM majors, just a heads up. Every single candidate I've met at the interviews has been either a math or CS major. That's not to say you need to be a math major to pass the interview, it's just probably easier to get one that way. If you can't/don't want to, I'd recommend taking: probability, stochastics, and combinatorics.
Spot on with the list. Although I don't agree that they recruit from just STEM majors. I am starting FT at one of the top prop shops mentioned in your post and I don't have any STEM training. Finance and Econ are also semi-targeted majors. Your agility and previous work experiences are also major factors. Passion is also critical; some of these firms want people that want to do nothing else but trading.
Volant is primarily in NYC although they have small a Chicago office. Flow, Five Rings, and Virtu are also in NYC. Most of those are not primarily options MMs. as well.
More Prop Shops in Chicago (Originally Posted: 08/09/2013)
Stumbled upon this: http://www.tradersmagazine.com/news/more-prop-trading-shops-forming-in-chicago-111267-1.html
I'm wondering anyone happens to know who are these shops?
chicago prop trading is dead, i read a post about it.
These shops are not going to make money. Infinium laid off 75% of its staff and is going to get purchased by another firm.
Yes, I was the one who wrote the chicago prop trading thread, and i stand by my assertions.
nope, no money anywhere, only way to make money is to waste 150K and get an MBA!
I'm glad there's a pic of the author so I could avoid reading it. Squirly looking motherfucker
i often wonder why people refer to prop trading as "dead" or "dying". If you are a good trader, it almost doesn't matter where you are...you will be able to make money trading...even if you only have enough $$ to trade 2 futures contracts. The advantage of trading at one of these prop firms is just the ability to trade more capital than you might have personally. If you are a good trader, and the prop firm didn't exist..or wouldn't hire you..then you would just trade your own account from home in your boxer shorts. The only reason a good trader would want to join a firm (prop of hedge fund) is so they can trade a larger slug of capital, and maybe get a reduction in their transaction costs.
The argument of offsetting the risk to the prop firm / hedge fund (heads i win, tails you lose) is also attractive..but if you are a good trader (consistently profitable) then this becomes less of an issue.
The prop firms exist only because not all talent has the capital to trade on their own...and the larger firm / group of capital can negotiate lower transaction costs and some infrastructure costs are cheaper when buying in bulk. With the advent of high-speed internet based screen trading thru a firm like IB, this is almost irrelevant now anyway. If you want to trade, and are willing to put in the work...there are still plenty of opportunities in the markets.
If we are talking option trading, there is no way someone sitting at home can compete with a market maker. The difference between a thinkorswim or IB platform and a proprietary platform is night and day.
my point is that there is no need to pidgeon hole yourself to one product or strategy....if we are talking CDO trading...or nth to default CDX baskets...then yeah...its not like it used to be...but come one...learn the primary markets...treasuries, FX, equity indices, Crude Oil, Gold & Silver...these are the markets where your average trader can become a great trader and learn about the world. Before deciding to focus on a narrow niche of the finance world, learn the fundamentals...learn to trade the fundamentals...and then get creative. Trying to get creative when you can't trade the fundamentals is not going to help the common man.
Chicago Prop Firms (Originally Posted: 06/03/2013)
As a recent grad, I am still solidly in the job market. I have come to a realization that perhaps banking isn't necessarily what I want to do, at least not first choice. I would if I could, but my resume/GPA will most likely not get me anywhere at the moment. But I do spend almost every free second trading my own account (paper and real money) or reading market news and building strategies and ideas based off what I read, have managed other's accounts (real money and generated significant capital gains), and I can price options by hand with BS, Binomial models, and have started working on several personal trading ideas based off implied volatility as it pertains to the binomial model. I can find DCF values, WACC, price bonds, mathematically hedge portfolios, price futures and forwards, by hand, and have spent an almost obscene amount of personal time teaching myself about trading, theory, valuation, and financial markets. In addition, I am extremely passionate about markets themselves, especially the equity markets. My ultimate goal is to work at a hedge fund, although that is not realistic right now. I have spent a significant amount of time researching prop trading firms in Chicago, as that is where I am located, but it seems unless you are a quant/math guy, you don't necessarily have a chance. I can learn anything, but I'd love the chance to do so. I graduated with a degree in finance. I killed it in my finance and many economics classes. Due to some poor professors (famous for not giving higher than CS at my school), I did not do well in my math classes, despite being good with numbers generally. Do I have a chance at any of the firms in the greater Chicago area? And if so, which ones would be more likely to give me a second look? If not, what is a good suggestion for someone with my skill set? There seems to be a little more critical thinking here than some of the other forums. Be blunt. Thanks a lot.
doubt any of the big props are hiring. you might need to go back to get your masters to have a shot during the october-jan recruiting cycle if you want to be at a legit(50K+ salary) shop.
Unfortunately that's also what I was thinking. I am in a position to take a reasonsably well-paying sales job at a logistics company, and will most likely save to do just exactly that, as well as really try to generate some decent PnL for my personal account.
Laid off in Chicago, looking for another prop firm (Originally Posted: 06/17/2011)
So, here's the story...
2 and a half months ago, I took an offer at a certain small Chicago to be part of their stat arb desk (not sure if I should mention what it is, but I'm sure many of you can connect the dots if you go through my post history).
Except the problem was that there was a chicken and egg situation, and the CEO wanted the entire quant group to make gold out of the lead that was his original trading strategy. Due to clashes between him and the quant director , two weeks after I began, the quant director, who A) was open-minded enough to hire me and B) was the only person with any semblance of vision for where my career was going...was let go.
Since then, things went south, and a week ago, the trading reports I was used to handling started shrinking drastically, and yesterday I got laid off through more or less no fault of my own.
So now, I'm getting paid through the end of July, which would allow me to pay the rent for another six months. In the meantime, I need to find a new gig in Chicago, whether in trading, or in some other kind of statistical discipline using the R programming language (I was more or less a complete coder).
First issue:
A) I hope I'm not damaged goods here. I have a master's in statistics, and started work only ten and a half months after graduating with that, and now I got laid off again. It ISN'T for lack of wanting.
B) I more or less know nobody in Chicago since I practically lived at the office (EG wake up, go to gym, go to work, go to sleep, repeat all weekdays), and I'm wondering if there's another person in Chicago that would actually take a chance on me. If so, where do I find them?
C) The man who hired me originally is now building up another trading group under his supervision, but the problem is that said group isn't showing profits yet to the point of being able to hire junior staff. So I can't get rehired by that same man.
D) I have little experience. I kept my job for two and a half months, and lost it through no fault of my own, but recruiters don't get paid to place kids wanting a job. In fact, recruiters are generally not even returning my calls/emails.
So...I'm wondering if anyone here knows someone else in the Chitown area who's recruiting for junior quant/trading assistant kinds of roles here. Of course, I'm also looking outside of Chitown, but when I tried calling Cutler Group in San Francisco, their gate keeper said "nope, can't talk to anyone at the firm. During the trading day, they work, and then they're on their way out, so they leave and I can't put you through to them then either. We just get so much volume, so please use the front door" which is just stupidity (IE thanks for applying, your resume is in our system, if you're a fit we'll call you), which means jack shit when there's a kazillion kids and they can filter the highest undergrad GPAs and name brand target schools.
So...what is it that I'm supposed to do here? Anyone willing to network with an aspiring quant trader in Chicago, or know of open-minded individuals in this industry?
Thanks!
hey dude, i edited out the your qd's name...a good way to get yourself blackballed is shouting people out by first and last name while spilling their business online...DO NOT DO IT.
as for chicago, dig up the "top prop shops" thread from a few years back via the search function and start pounding the pavement.
good luck
Pretty far outside of the box suggestion here BUT - Maybe work out an arrangement with the guy who originally hired you and help him build his new business.
Example - You will work for X months for free in exchange for a cool sounding title, $x bonus once profitable, and prorated back-pay added on to normal base salary once profitable until paid back what you would've made.
If it doesn't work out, at least you've got a good title on your resume, show that you're not afraid to take risks but are still loyal, and have a good story to tell.
Then again, I have no idea how long you are comfortable going without being paid, or whether it's even realistic for the strategy to become profitable within six months. Just my $.02.
Agreed, I would offer to work for free in exchange for a good deal once the profits start coming in (make sure you have it in writing).
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