Citadel FTAP vs DRW Software Engineer
Hi,
I'm trying to choose between these two positions and can't seem to make a decision. Was hoping u guys could help me out.
I've heard horror stories about the working hours of Citadel and about the lack of interaction between different groups. However, I also hear that their FTAP program, which is about 1.5 years long, is top-class and will make me competent even for a pure finance role(I currently have zero exposure to finance).
DRW, on the other hand, has grown a lot during the last few years. Their working environment seemed to be really great. I guess the name-value of the company is a bit below Citadel.
Any opinions about the two companies?
The deadline is coming near and I want to hear from anyone who knows/heard about these two companies.
Thanks a lot!
First of all, congrats on both offers. Both firms are very good at what they do and reputable to people who know anything about hedge funds/prop trading. I was an FTAP intern at Citadel this past summer, turned down a full-time offer. Citadel's a phenomenal firm with insanely bright people and cutting-edge technology. But yes, all the bad stuff you've heard is true. It is an absolutely ruthless environment. People are fired left and right - there are even people who are fired in the middle of their FTAP training program. There is no interaction between different groups, although if you do FTAP, you will get to rotate through three different groups. The FTAP program is great for people who are interested in applying technology to solve financial problems. Unfortunately, it tends to attract people who have technical backgrounds but are interested in transitioning into finance - everyone in FTAP wants to become a trader. But the program is specifically designed to turn you into a software engineer. And so many of them leave after their 2 years are up. The bright side is that you can take the coursework and financial knowledge they teach you and become a trader or quant at another firm pretty easily. I interviewed at DRW a few weeks ago for a trading position, and they bragged about how they poached two ex-Citadel FTAP-ers. DRW is a slightly different firm from Citadel in that it's a prop trading firm, not a hedge fund, so it doesn't have any clients (all of their capital is internally owned). In that regard, it runs a lot leaner and is more entrepreneurial and risk-taking. They also have a huge focus on technology. I would say, if you're at all interested in transitioning to trading, take Citadel, learn as much as you can, and move to another firm after 2 years. If you're more passionate about staying in a technology role, DRW is probably a better environment, particularly for the long-term.
agree with above. very hard for tech and software people working in prop trading firms to move to the trading side. all of drw's traders are experienced hires from other companies or have gone through their 1 yr assist trader program. so if you go to drw, you will most likely stay in a software environment. the only group that's heavily programming based and also trades is the algo group.
if you want to eventually trade or do quant research, then ftap is definitely the clear choice. it's competitive but the rewards are high. many of them end up in stat arb and algo groups at prop firms.
so drw software if you want a pretty safe low risk job, but def citadel if you are competitive and want to trade
Considering Citadel FTAP vs other Software Dev Oppotunities (Originally Posted: 02/26/2013)
I saw a similar topic earlier, but I really need help deciding in my case and I only have two weeks. I only heard about Citadel early this year, but was really interested in finance before and thought that the finance industry is very lucrative to enter. I recently got an offer from them, but it was for their summer internship, that I hope to convert into a full time offer at the end of this year (but it is a risk, because they may not invite me back). But, I am definitely more excited about this opportunity (compared to the ones listed in next paragraph) because it fits more closely to my programming experience (C++) and I will get to learn about finance, which I always wanted.
However, I have standing full time offers at the end of summer (which will not let me do a summer internship) from a couple of tech giants in California (Qualcomm and Oracle) and those are solid companies and it is a safe option because they are not internships. However, the work there seems less interesting and more stagnant, and I am unsure of the path for growth in those companies.
I was wondering if there was any major difference in compensation if I choose to go with Citadel because I really want to find reasons to go there besides the fact that I want to. Also, what are the other factors like in the comparison? (cost of living in Chicago vs in SF, San Diego bay area, opportunity for growth within company, opportunity to perhaps pursue an MBA and switch in into people/financial management, work hours and workers respect) Also, does anyone know about what percentage of FTAP interns Citadel hires back for full time?
Replies will be great because I am really struggling to come up with a decision.
Citadel is a place where you will get worked like a dog and get paid really well for it. If you perform at a high level there are opportunities. But if you are not willing to make the commitment, you will definitely not succeed there. Getting in is the easy part trust me, because I've seen many fakers get by on the interview and flake out within 1.5 years. The name brand does help hopping to lesser firms. Qualcomm and Oracle sound like cubicle jobs. They won't have the perks like Citadel.
Thanks for the reply! Do you know if they have a good hire-back ratio for their interns? That's another major concern for me. Also, do employees have good exit options if they decide to go for a shorter stint?
PM me if you want to chat about this
Citadel - hands down. Qualcomm and Oracle are boring, dime-a-dozen cubicle jobs. If you were able to secure them now, I'm sure you'd be able to secure them later. Citadel on the other hand could be your one-and-only chance to enter the finance industry. It will be so ridiculously hard to go from Oracle -> Citadel. It will. not. happen. ever.
I wouldn't pass up the opportunity just because you're concerned you won't get a full-time offer. Just work really hard, and make sure you do! Worst case scenario is you DON'T get the full-time offer - and then you have a sweet little internship on your resume. Maybe that's enough to get you into Millenium, AQR, or another big ass firm.
Honestly, I can't tell if this is a troll post or not. So much incorrect information here.
Thanks for the replies! I am leaning towards Citadel after this, but I am not sure how much the internship will count for because I am essentially a technical person and most companies coming to my school are tech companies and recognition for financial firms is not a lot here.
However, what are the growth rates like in Citadel, and is their compensation package any better than the tech companies?
Eum ut expedita et ut. Facilis qui non eligendi et. Qui similique sit consequatur fugit. Est sed consequatur accusamus ut labore. Voluptates vero fuga illo quasi.
Beatae blanditiis dignissimos iste. Rerum aliquid eveniet qui fugiat est iste et. Assumenda autem consequatur sunt mollitia porro magnam dicta. Omnis eveniet asperiores iusto modi cum quia doloribus.
Dolore aut quis tenetur quis nesciunt enim quia repudiandae. Itaque error id sunt alias quibusdam autem ipsa atque.
Labore fugiat dolores id voluptas minus aut quia dolorem. Aut aspernatur earum neque corporis nihil voluptate aut. Molestiae sed corrupti nesciunt necessitatibus cupiditate soluta ex. A qui et sed mollitia eaque atque eaque.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...