Conservative professionals of WSO, do you think the election was rigged?
Sorry prospects, but I'm gearing this more towards college graduates and beyond. I'm a conservative myself and I know that WSO, like Wall Street, is mainly conservative (I believe Biden only out-earned Trump because of the unpredictability factor). With the recent Capitol riot, I'm just curious what other high-earning, educated, conservatives on WSO think of the 2020 election process. Was it rigged?
Edit: I personally did not think it was rigged, nor have I met anyone professionally who has given any inclination that they do. That said, WSO tends to be a bit more extreme and forward so I was curious.
My MD's all think Trump is an idiot but they still voted for him because of the tax issue.
I’m surprised by this. Everyone at work is into politics but most conceal their political leanings. All colleagues who have made their political views known have skewed center-left and, as far as I can tell, that that stands for the whole lot of us. Obviously all of us like money but everyone is pretty liberal socially and that supersedes whatever tax savings could be had.
Are you in the South?
No. They just know each other well that's why. And they are old.
I know a lot of people lie publicly about politics these days. Lot's of people I know are single issue voters and voted Trump for Tax reasons. He isn't really a 'conservative' Republican either. Now, with the riots at the Capitol expect more people to just say they voted Biden.
My office is extremely outwardly spoken pro-trump. Would rail against people who were openly opposed
Your right there are a lot of conservatives in finance, but at the beyond-prospect level you won’t find much blatant conservatism (foaming at the mouth rapid pro-trump mentality), but rather a mix of Reagan conservatism, fiscal conservatism, Eisenhower conservatism, Lincoln project conservative, or some weird form that does not bear much similarities with our modern day administration. Because conservatism at this level is about maintaining values, strengthening the country, and keeping money that you have earned, it is not about denying blatantly evident facts.
I myself lean a bit right sometimes (32 years old, is that old now?), and no one intelligent and respectable believes that the election was rigged in any meaningful way. Quite simply put, you would have to be a barely functional retard (knuckles dragging, slobbering at the mouth, barely able to put blocks together let alone make a satisfactory DCF) to believe that bullshit. Either that or you would need to be suffering from some lock-down induced psychosis. My parents believe the election was stolen, but they are a cab driver and a diner waitress from Essex, MD with a penchant for oxycontin use. This is the company you keep when you believe in this rapid conspiracy theory, you are not in unison with members of civilized society.
So yes the industry has LOTS of conservatives. But fortunately people who are literally retarded (I can't stress this enough: brain damage, schizo, fetal alcohol syndrome, etc) do not make it long in this industry. Its completely fine to have a political viewpoint that is conservative, but believing full-cloth fabrications doesn’t get you too far in an industry where you need to at least demonstrate an ounce of trustworthy opinions about numbers, research, and trusting factual reputable information. Simply put, the honest stance that the election was "rigged" is the antithesis to characteristics that would be important in this industry.
The much more likely stance of people in wall street is you realize trump is a mongoloid, you realize 99% of what he says is bullshit, but you vote for him based on tax / china toughness / some specific wedge issue. That is at least respectable and I won't argue your opinion on that line of thinking.
The reason Trump lost is simple: He was wildly polarizing in a time of crisis (the one time incumbents will tend to perform badly). It does not take a large leap of faith to see how he lost given the circumstances of the last year.
This post would’ve been gold to me if you hadn’t included all of the ad hominem attacks. Which, I’m sure you don’t care about my opinion, but I digress. I think the issue is less to do with intelligence and more to do with the prior 4 years. Part of the reason so many people feel this way is because of the gaslighting that is going on. The media went from 2016 being rigged to 2020 being the most secure election in history. It doesn’t take a mentally brain dead person to question that, but it does take a morally bankrupt person to criticize those people.
Edit: For those throwing MS, care to explain what about I said is wrong? See my comment below. I am not claiming the validity of the 2016 claims, I am stating that it happened.
I am not going to MS because you have a fair opinion and are a respectful individual but:
No one. And I cant stress this enough, no one serious (IQ above room temperature) thought that 2016 was rigged. No one. Those that did (crying babies) were laughed out of any room they went into. It was a shocker, it was an upset to many people, but it was not considered rigged by any reasonable individual, and the margins of 2016 were much closer than 2020 (not that it matters). There is a reason hillary immediately conceded. There is a reason there was a abrupt transition of power. Because the election results were happening, whether people liked it or not.
The constant victim mentality of some people is exhausting. There is nothing morally bankrupt about pointing out that if you believe something that makes no sense whatsoever you are either deranged or a fool. Do we treat people that believe in a flat earth with such extraordinary kid gloves?
I think where you're wrong is that the election rigging attacks of 2016 held some evidence and if anything was fabricated it was just purely political from a weakened DNC. Trump completely pulled unfounded accusations out of his ass even prior to November 3rd to claim the election was rigged, then he also took it upon himself to command anyone he thought would listen to directly attack and undermine the political process.
Additionally, the same election attacks were at play, such as Russia/Iran involvement, although it had been muted due to Trump's behavior, which I stress was much more extreme than anything in the history of this country. Lastly, this whole "media is bad" strategy is not a legitimate one anymore. If you don't have your own filter for what information to accept and what to deny, then sorry to say you're part of the problem.
The people who claim that the 2016 election was rigged are not doing so in the same way that Trump claims that 2020 was rigged (I personally don't think he actually believes 2020 was rigged but just wants to drum up controversy for his own benefit). The 2016 election was influenced by foreign actors and there is significant evidence to support this but for someone to say that 2016 was rigged would be a bit farfetched, no one forced people to vote for Trump in 2016 but may have been influenced by significant push of false information by outside actors. The claims Trump is making are that 2020 was literally rigged with false voting and illegal counting for which there is no evidence. It's very important to pay attention to the words being used to describe each election because there is a big difference between being influenced and flat out rigged. Not saying either side is right or wrong with how they have handled their claims but it is important to note that what was claimed regarding the election in 2016 is very different from what is being claimed in the 2020 election.
No one claimed it was rigged. It was claimed russians tried to interfere with public opinion, which they did.
Kudos to you being able to distinguish yourself from what you see as negative in your own parents. It's not easy to do. My mom is a Trump supporter, as well. I've had many calm and rational conversations with her sharing a different perspective as she tends to get tunnel vision echoing what conservative media outlets are saying. It's all bullshit, though. The left and the right. ALL OF IT. Individuals need to be able to distinguish the rhetoric of entertainment value from that of actual informative value. To some extent, a little pull from the left if you consider yourself conservative is actually helpful, because otherwise you just become stale and uninformed about things that are ACTUALLY changing both in terms of technology as well as in general cultural trends or demographics. One constant in life is change whether you like it or not.
Sincere question for you, do you think that we have had this parabolic shift organically, or has it been manufactured? Have you read much up on the tipping point for social change and the unbelievable low limits required for entire populations to become radicalized. Some researchers suggest it could be as low as 10%. With that said, people seeing bots and content farms pushing an idea, can very well seem like that is the norm. I’m not suggesting that the change is bad or good, only that the shift we have seen has been towards ideas that would have been completely unthinkable 10-20 years ago and that perhaps, it has not been completely organic.
a
I'm from central PA and can confirm the ad hominem attacks apply for most of these people in a majority pro-Trump area.
You sure you got enough insults there?
with regard to fiscal policy I'm definitely conservative, with social issues I'm very liberal
definitions are important here. if by "rigged" you mean legitimate votes were not counted and illegitimate votes were counted or that counting mechanisms were tampered with in a magnitude such that it changes the outcome of the electoral college results, then I would say no, the election was not rigged. the burden of proof is on the accusers, and until I see such proof, I say tough shit, Trump lost.
if by "rigged" however, you mean influenced by various actors who want certain political outcomes for whatever reasons and interfere with our campaign process and try to sway voters when they aren't part of any party per se (russians, lincoln project, soros, actblue, etc), then DUH. all elections in the USA are influenced, and we can argue all day long about whether or not this is "fair" but intervening in others political affairs is the part of nearly every sovereign nation's foreign policy, so it ain't changing, and I think that argument is a waste of time.
I would say people like me and the conservatives I run in the same circles with share roughly the same beliefs - we didn't want a blue wave for policy reasons, trump may be better for the military, but beyond that he's an asshole who never takes ownership, throws temper tantrums, and is potentially doing many years worth of damage to the party on the way out and it'd be wonderful if he'd just shut the fuck up (unlikely).
further, reasonable people can hold 2 simultaneous beliefs - it's within your legal rights to question election processes, but when investigations don't bear any fruit, you allow reason to prevail and say "oh well, we lost I guess." it's not helpful to say election results can never be questioned, but it's worse to then question the investigation that you called for, that's detached from reality.
I think I speak for a lot of formerly registered republicans when I say that the party's best chance at success in 2022 and 2024 is aggressively distancing itself from trump, and pronto.
It is crazy to be comparing domestic institutions' influence on the election (which is allowed) to Russians' influence (which is not)
I understand your point, but can’t agree that groups like Lincoln project are “nefarious actors” and should be lumped in with the actions of foreign adversaries.
yeah that's the downside of writing shit quickly, I don't actually believe lincoln project is nefarious, I'll edit it
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/09/republicans-free-fair-election…
https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/01/07/US…
The vast majority of Republican voters believe something was wrong, with roughly half supporting the riot. To them, Pence and co. are now the reason Republicans are on the defensive, as they ousted themselves as cowards and traitors. Good luck!
that's a big fuckin yikes dog, but it doesn't change my mind. people thinking something was wrong is way different from their being substantial enough facts to overturn the electoral college results, and I think that's what's lost. 2 things can exist simultaneously - there was fuckery, and also the result would be the same. I'm not saying the voting process is perfect, what I am saying is that I firmly believe that fuckery or not, the result is the same with Biden as the winner.
now back to your point, if half support the riots, then it looks like the GOP has got some decisions to make. are they gonna kowtow to the idiots who would support that kinda bullshit, or are they going to go back to principles like small government, individual liberty, strong military, pro-family, and personal responsibility like what originally attracted me to the party? time will tell, and after the past few years, I have no idea what to predict, I truly could see it going both ways.
what I will say is your homeland needs to hurry up and reopen, I need a mediterranean escape
It's because of the guys above that even after 4 years of China China China and the "Chyna Virus" bs from Trump and Pompeo and Navarro, I still lean conservative.
a
I'm not asking whether you lean conservative or you think the liberals treated Trump fairly. I'm asking if you think the election was rigged.
Obviously not. Not even Cruz, Hawley, nor the vast majority of GOP elected officials believe it.
>still clinging to liberal/conservative monikers as we witness the collapse of the American global order
I don't think there was voter fraud that swung the election.
That said: the sloppiness of our election system undermines trust in the process and makes people less likely to accept the outcome. I voted this fall by walking into my polling place and just telling them my name. They handed me a ballot and I filled it out. Zero verification that I was who I said I was. Beyond that, I know a lot of people in my social circle who are registered to vote in multiple states- not because they're nefariously trying to vote twice, but because they've moved around, and many states are ludicrously bad at maintaining accurate voter rolls.
I know that most TV talking heads, and a lot of people on this site, like to gaslight people into thinking that this is all totally fine and a model of efficient government, and that anyone who questions it is a crazy conspiracy theorist. But that's ridiculous. Similar sloppiness would never be acceptable in the corporate world, for example. Imagine getting free movies for a decade because Netflix never removes people from their subscribers list. Imagine picking up concert tickets at Will Call by just telling them your name- no ID required. People would laugh at the very idea of it. But our election system actually works that way.
Mass mail-in voting presents a whole new set of security issues. Many countries ban the practice because its inherent weaknesses are well known.
Again, I don't think the 2020 margin was small enough that fraud could have flipped the outcome. But people who get outraged when results are questioned should show more willingness to tighten up the process.
The quality of the election management varies from locale to locale. In my state the mail in voting was secure and verified.
Election security is important, and improvements can be made, but it’s challenging because a huge number of elected officials use “election security” as a means of suppressing votes.
Like other fields, election security needs to deal with Type I errors and Type II errors, i.e. false positives and false negatives. A Type I error occurs when a legitimate voter is prevented from voting. A Type II error occurs when an illegitimate vote is counted.
No system will ever be perfect, but the goal should be to find the optimal balance: minimizing both types of errors as much as possible rather than solely minimizing one type.
Think of it this way: every time an illegitimate vote is counted, a legitimate voter is effectively being suppressed because their vote is being wrongly canceled out.
Not the states trump is talking about. I absolutely think a large number of non citizens vote in California though. The checks on voter eligibility there are an absolute joke.
ok cry more Q
"Conservative members of WSO, do you believe this blatantly false allegation of which there is no evidence and is pushed out by propagandists?"
My politics are very strange I admit (anti-Trump, anti-BLM, COVID is a big deal), but generally speaking on the right side of the political aisle.....
That being said, there's no evidence suggesting the level of voter fraud required to change the result of the election. The Trump lawsuits were unserious and frankly pathetic. Biden won because he won back the burbs. Trump lost because he's a big orange retard. Cry more.
You say strange, I say perfectly reasonable.
If the entire world is insane, does that make normal ones crazy? That used to be a cool hypothetical to think about, but now it has come true...
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