finance in India

nycmonkey's picture
Rank: Chimp | 14

Whats the WODS for finance in India - specifically GS and BX in India, if I want to spend a year or two there but come back to NY for my long term finance career. Firms now seem to be hiring more in Europe and Asia compared to US, but what is deal flow going to be like in India in the near term, how is the ability to lateral at different locations within GS and BX specifically?

I know how different it is- lifestyle changes, etc. but I just want to spend some time there because I'm interested in starting a (non-finance related) business on the side.

Also GS office there is very generalist because deal flow is not as heavy as US, that is the way finance in India differs from US finance just as HK finance is quite specific to the few things HK companies need - would being jack of all trades master of none be a good or bad thing? It seems like you would get much more responsibility (a plus), and still good modeling experience.

So would it be possible to just lateral because of the experience/brand names/recommendations from senior bankers, or will I have to do bschool first to "rebrand" myself and get some US internship experience?

Comments (24)

Nov 7, 2009

bump

Nov 7, 2009

india blows and there is only a GS office in bangalore which is all IT and ops.

Nov 7, 2009

What does BX standfor?

Nov 7, 2009
ultratrader89:

india blows and there is only a GS office in bangalore which is all IT and ops.

lol ultra what do you have against india? do you actually have any solid information about either firm/finance in india to share? I read they are picking up recruiting just as other places in asia are relative to the us and europe.

GS also has an office in Mumbai which they are expanding aggressively in terms of both people and money from what I've read/heard. Tech/VC/PE will likely be rising fields in India because of the vast amount of tech skill/knowledge that is available there, so the boom will be different than in China where it is/was manufacturing and gov't development based, lots of LBOs and M&A, I suspect that might slant what kind of experience one would get in Mumbai - but again, is that for better or worse? I suppose since you'd get at least some M&A exp you'd have a bit of a cover/pass on experience, and you could use the other stuff to push into PE/VC if that's where you want to go in the future...

btw, in most places other than us/london, esp asia, IT and ops are not considered bad since they actually require a more technical and harder education than finance 'meatheads', and those rigorous degrees/areas of study are more culturally valued there. it isn't really widely understood that its okay to be less educated per se and be fine, they tend to equate education=comfort/prestige/success. also multinationals are generally associated to be prestigious. a cultural divide, i guess, sort of how here everyone wants to work for gs but abroad, you might be surprised to know that citi has quite a brand name reputation!

Nov 7, 2009
  1. I have nothing against India, I thought you wanted to work for GS. They only have back office there.
  2. Maybe in India, but the GS name is still king in China/Asia.
  3. You might wanna go for PE/VC. back office is just a call center in india.
Nov 7, 2009
ultratrader89:

1. I have nothing against India, I thought you wanted to work for GS. They only have back office there.

  1. Maybe in India, but the GS name is still king in China/Asia.
  2. You might wanna go for PE/VC. back office is just a call center in india.
  • not true - but don't take my word for it, google it
  • for banking, GS is tops in many places, most importantly in US, which is why I'm considering it to begin with, both in US and abroad offices. However, even in non-India Asia, GS is certainly not the strongest player in finance - just search for details. college kids wanting to work there is not indicative of much... outside US, Citi is tops among laypeople/in brand equity. in fact Citi's rep is stronger in China than in India despite the CEO being Indian, as C sold its India unit amidst its recent restructuring process, but they've still kept their China operations going
  • I want to explore IBD abroad, and maybe PE, which is why I'm looking at BX also...need more info though! back office is a call center/IT/ops everywhere lol, from China to India to US. Indians have the advantage of being multilingual over other foreign nations, which, along with technical expertise, is why I suppose India picked up in the service industry whereas China + others do manufacturing, but I imagine as business picks up in India, the BO people will transition/other people will be added to FO...
    Nov 7, 2009

    you are obviously a troll for an ugly indian citi back office kid. sorry bro but citi is a piece of crap. everyone knows gao sheng is #1. ur obviously indian and have no idea what is going on in China so allow the Chinese kids to talk about their country ok? I doubt you know what gao sheng even is.

    also, I did google on GS in india and it came back BACK OFFICE.

    "but I imagine as business picks up in India, the BO people will transition/other people will be added to FO..."

    /endthread on how stupid this kid is, roflmao. EVERYONE JUMP ON TO OPERATIONS IN INDIA NOW SO U CAN ALL BE BANKERS WHEN THE TRANSITION HAPPENZZZZ LLULZ

    PS: also your other thread is retarded. LOL @ thinking 1-5 million hedge fund is respectable/possible. half the ppl on wall st have net worth of that shit. what are you, in high school?!

      • 1
    Nov 7, 2009
    ultratrader89:

    you are obviously a troll for an ugly indian citi back office kid. sorry bro but citi is a piece of crap. everyone knows gao sheng is #1. ur obviously indian and have no idea what is going on in China so allow the Chinese kids to talk about their country ok? I doubt you know what gao sheng even is.

    also, I did google on GS in india and it came back BACK OFFICE.

    "but I imagine as business picks up in India, the BO people will transition/other people will be added to FO..."

    /endthread on how stupid this kid is, roflmao. EVERYONE JUMP ON TO OPERATIONS IN INDIA NOW SO U CAN ALL BE BANKERS WHEN THE TRANSITION HAPPENZZZZ LLULZ

    PS: also your other thread is retarded. LOL @ thinking 1-5 million hedge fund is respectable/possible. half the ppl on wall st have net worth of that shit. what are you, in high school?!

    Easy bud...dont become the next Jeffrey Chiang.

    Nov 7, 2009
    ultratrader89:

    you are obviously a troll for an ugly indian citi back office kid. sorry bro but citi is a piece of crap. everyone knows gao sheng is #1. ur obviously indian and have no idea what is going on in China so allow the Chinese kids to talk about their country ok? I doubt you know what gao sheng even is.

    also, I did google on GS in india and it came back BACK OFFICE.

    "but I imagine as business picks up in India, the BO people will transition/other people will be added to FO..."

    /endthread on how stupid this kid is, roflmao. EVERYONE JUMP ON TO OPERATIONS IN INDIA NOW SO U CAN ALL BE BANKERS WHEN THE TRANSITION HAPPENZZZZ LLULZ

    PS: also your other thread is retarded. LOL @ thinking 1-5 million hedge fund is respectable/possible. half the ppl on wall st have net worth of that shit. what are you, in high school?!

    India blows, ugly Indian Citi kid lol. Sure, you don't have anything against India/Indians ;)

    I'm not Indian, I'm Jewish, so try again! haha I had guessed that you were either Chinese - they always have swarm envy! - or Pakistani. I'm guessing that you're native Chinese, since those who have swarm envy but are raised here usually do a better job of hiding their bigotry. And your English leaves much to be desired!

    If your search/debate skills are indicative of you even in any remote sense, that, plus the import of your other comments that indicate how little you know about anything/any sector of this industry = good luck with that job search, you'd be lucky to end up at Citi ops. (that too in India!) ;)

    Nov 7, 2009

    Can someone please explain to my noob ass what the hell BX stands for?

    Nov 7, 2009

    2226416 look right below your first post! :)

    Nov 7, 2009

    Know for a fact GS and other top firms have WM and algo trading groups there. PE/VC getting popular too - my Indian friend was sent to Bombay by TPG. Also, yes I agree that GS is not top dog everywhere. Citi in Asia and UBS in Australia are better respected. ultratrader89 sounds like either a dumb American who's never left the country or a dumb Chinese.

    2226416: BX = Blackstone, a PE firm.

    Nov 7, 2009

    tpg, carlyle, and bx have 5 or so person offices there for front office pe. i think for tpg its part of their tpg growth fund.

    ultratrader is very obviously chinese, and not too bright

    Nov 7, 2009

    ultratrader...go back to China; hopefully when you're there WSO is censored by your government and you're off this board for good.

    I know for a fact GS has IBD/PIA in India (specifically Mumbai) and many other major banks (Credit Suisse, for example) do as well. GS's is a respectable operation and becoming a major player in the market there.

    It's pathetic when someone is so adamant about something and so factually wrong.

    Nov 7, 2009

    thanks to the helpful commenters!

    can anyone add info on growth prospects for PE/VC for BX/TPG/Carlyle/any other stand-alone firms? and any specifics on GS IBD, PIA, and other divisions? PM me if you prefer

    Nov 7, 2009

    Actually, I'm interested in hearing what ppl have to say abt PE/HF in India too.

    Nov 7, 2009

    Thanks guys ;)

    Nov 8, 2009

    The BBs in India generally tie up in a JV with incumbent banks - see JM Morgan Stanley, Kotak with GS etc. This was mainly due to older laws limiting foreign ownership etc. The big players are generally the above, Deutsche, ICICI etc. All the large PE firms have a presence there - BX, KKR, GA as well.

    Nov 8, 2009

    I studied in India and have a pretty large set of friends in the banks out there. The JV structure used to exist till 2006-07 but now all BBs have independent operations in India. All BBs have 15-20 member offices (IBD/PE) and some have larger S&T/prop/PWM operations. GS, MS, JPM, DB, Barclays, BofaML, UBS, CS, Citi, Nomura, Macquarie are all pretty active there and have most of em have expats (usually Indians) flown in from NYC/London to run operations apart from hires from the lndian Institutes of Management (IIMs).

    Almost all these firms have back offices too, but they are obviously a whole different ball game and largely hire engineers and undergrads.

    I am surprised there is so much ignorance given that all you need to do is visit a company's website to figure out what they do in each country!

    Nov 9, 2009

    haha ultratrader and Jeffrey Chiang... making their country(men) proud! It's not that hard to be ignorant when all you have to do is convince yourself your racial bias/ethnic nationalism is supreme, and that the irrelevant little facts are all wrong ;)

    If I'm a technical major (physics/math/eng) from a US Ivy/target, will I need to get an MBA before they'll consider me, or is hiring different for those who are not schooled in India and/or have non-econ/finance undergrad educations from abroad?

    I knew most of their staff apart from local hires are expats, I honestly have not seen/heard of that many non-Indians there, but I never thought it might be much of a problem given English seems to be the major working language there, am I wrong about this? Or do I need to pick up some Hindi(?) before making the leap?

    growth prospects/specifics about any firms would be very appreciated, as well as the relative scale of BB IBD vs. trading and prop in India?

    Nov 9, 2009

    nycmonkey, i've spoken to people in the GS office there, and the "analysts" in India are generally IIM graduates (meaning post-MBA). They said they don't hire out of US undergrad, but it is possible after MBA

    Nov 9, 2009

    also, I'm curious to know now, what are the sizes of BB IBD and trading offices in all the BRIC nations relative to each other? found the below quote on another thread, with another post or two refuting it but with no citations or facts, so what's the truth here?

    ibhopeful532:

    i know for most banks with the exception of UBS/GS that Beijing office is basically pure backoffice.

    If you're a chinese citizen, GS automatically moves you to Beijing (read: you dont even have the option of working in HK)

    Not sure which part you disagree with, but if I am wrong please do correct me.

    UBS and GS have very much established franchises in China (and are two of the 3-4 firms that have license to issue A-shares). As a result, their Beijing offices are comparably better.

    I know with respect to other BB's, a lot of the Beijing and Shanghai offices are staffed by mainlanders. And they are minimally staffed. When we were doing mainland IPO's in HK, the Beijing office's primary function was support/translation. And I'm pretty sure they're not paid the same.

    With respect to my claim about GS, it is my understanding that if you only hold a Chinese citizenship, you will be moved to the Beijing office for full-time. This was the policy when I applied, but please correct me if I am indeed wrong.

    As far as the scale of operations for BB prop/PE in India, are they at the point or soon expected to grow to the point where you can pull in some major dough? I know GS had a bumper year a year or two ago with GSPS, where Raanan Agus (NY), Driss Ben-Brahim (London), and Morgan Sze (HK) pulled in close to $100m. I doubt the Indian market is quite there yet, or perhaps BBs just haven't capitalized on possibilities there yet (although that seems unlikely!), but I am guessing if the Indian offices have a wider mandate than just investing in India, there might be the potential to earn that much?

    Nov 9, 2009
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    Nov 13, 2009