Getting the 1st Round Interview

Hi guys, I've seen some older threads about this but I wanted to get some more recent and relevant (at least to me) feedback about this topic.

I was wondering how hard it was to get 1st round interviews. I understand that networking is a key aspect of it but to what degree do you need to have to establish a connection with the bankers you network with? Like, do you have to really hit it off for them to push your resume through? I've networked a bit with some BBs but I've only made some shallow-level connections at best with a few people at each bank, nothing too special - mostly just a short phone call. Along with maybe a follow-up email after I apply, is that enough for some consideration? Will going to a target / semi-target / non-target school affect these chances? I'm most interested in hearing about the target school side of this. Also, my resume is very okay at best (GPA too).

Thanks for the help, +1 SB for your thoughts.

 

Depends on your school, GPA, major, ECs, and most definitely prior relevant work experience. If you check all or most of those boxes you should have a good chance with networking and even without it.

 

I’ve talked to people that are related in some way (school, major, club, etc.) who have said at the beginning of us talking that they would get me a 1st round interview (and they did). I’ve also talked to other people who I’ve had a great conversation with, we keep in touch, and I was invited to go see the bank/meet in person, but still shied away from pushing through my resume.

I think it depends on the person you’re talking to. Ask if they can put you in contact with anyone else at the firm. If they mentioned a division or group you should look into that you haven’t previously thought about ask if they can connect you with someone in that division. If they won’t push your resume maybe someone else that you talk to will. Also, don’t be afraid to just ask about an interview after you’ve talked on the phone, near the end of the call or in the follow up email.

I have had some decent luck with networking and the one thing I would really recommend is trying to make connections that are more than “shallow-level connections”. You have more opportunities for this than you think. In the course of a conversation there are numerous points where you can drop something in the conversation that opens it up for more than a surface level connection: i.e. why this bank? Well, I grew up playing sport and have always enjoyed being on a team I hear the culture of bank values teamwork… (this is too basic/not a great answer, but you get the idea). It answers the question, but drops a detail that might interest them or relate to them and that can open up the conversation a bit.

My best advice is to try to make more than a shallow-level connection whether or not they’re going to help you get a first round because you still have much to gain from having these connections. I’ve heard plenty of interesting stories/gotten really good advice from people and I think it is because we’ve had a good conversation and they felt that I was worth their time. This doesn't mean you need to talk for longer or more often, but try to make those 30 minute calls focussed on building a connection. You could have a good informational interview and check all the right boxes, but if you're boring (read: not a human being, sound like a robot saying all the cookie-cutter things) and 1 of 100 people who reach out to network I would think there is less of a chance of the person taking their time to help you out.

Take this all with a grain of salt as I am searching for a full-time opportunity myself so this isn’t coming from someone who has made it (yet), but I’ve had luck networking/getting 1st rounds.

 

Thanks guys! Any other thoughts? Also, how much effort does it take for somebody to recommend you for a first round if you're from a target? From what I've heard, it's pretty structured like they just need to say yes / no when your school's team gets together.

 

Without networking, it's unlikely you get a ton of interviews (might get a few, but that's hard to say), unless your ECs are really special or boutique firm is fairly well-known.

People will say it's possible, citing a fringe case of this happening, but in all likelihood your GPA will be too low to overcome on its own.

 

I've got a 3.4 and no finance activities on my resume and I've had interviews with 5 bulges, two boutiques, and a MM. Semi-Target school. Network, network, network.

 

It's totally possible. I landed a SA gig with a 3.4 from a non-target and was able to convert that into a FT position. I reported by GPA without freshman year next to my cumulative when I went through the recruiting process.

 

Grades are really important. Most of the firms have a soft cutoff at 3.5, and I definitely recommend you stay 3.7+ if not 3.8+. Other than that, the firms love to see what impact you made. Word your resume so that it shows what changed because of your involvement, what the results of your actions were, etc. Quantify it as much as possible and use strong verbiage. Don't put general statements that anyone could have done in your position.

Also, work experience is still important, except unlike banking there isn't a set "path." I've seen people break into consulting from all sorts of backgrounds - PWM, F500, military, etc. It's really about what you were able to achieve in the positions you were in. Also, networking plays just as big a role in landing a consulting interview as it does in landing a banking interview. And finally, leadership and teamwork extracurricular activities are definitely important. In consulting, you work almost exclusively in teams and will often take on leadership roles (whether client-facing or internal) at junior levels. Show that you've been recognized for these kinds of things (teamwork, leadership, initiative, etc.).

 
Zzari:

Also, work experience is still important, except unlike banking there isn't a set "path." I've seen people break into consulting from all sorts of backgrounds - PWM, F500, military, etc. It's really about what you were able to achieve in the positions you were in.

Meh. Although consulting is more open to non traditional backgrounds, there definitely are major patterns in a typical class (when looking at internship experience). I'd say the majority (70-80%) of people do one of the following:

  1. Consulting internship -> consulting FT
  2. IBD internship -> consulting FT
  3. F500 FLDP/strategy -> consulting FT

Also, brand name matters quite a bit for consulting recruiting.

 
pnb2002:
Zzari:

Also, work experience is still important, except unlike banking there isn't a set "path." I've seen people break into consulting from all sorts of backgrounds - PWM, F500, military, etc. It's really about what you were able to achieve in the positions you were in.

Meh. Although consulting is more open to non traditional backgrounds, there definitely are major patterns in a typical class (when looking at internship experience). I'd say the majority (70-80%) of people do one of the following:

1. Consulting internship -> consulting FT
2. IBD internship -> consulting FT
3. F500 FLDP/strategy -> consulting FT

Also, brand name matters quite a bit for consulting recruiting.

I don't disagree with you - those 3 paths are definitely the majority of applicants and full-time hires. That said, there is certainly more "openness" to a different background and I'd guess consulting start classes have a wider variety of backgrounds than a backing start class. I could be totally wrong though.

 

I know someone from Rutgers who made it to GS, and is an equity research analyst there. I wouldn't say that your chanes are bad as far as school is concerned.

Also, your GPA is pretty good too. Good luck.

 

seems like all of them interned at Bear Stearns. But yeah I'll use the networking thing, since with that finance club there are a few IB guys coming in to speak.

i.e. today we had a Investment Banking workshop, where 2 IB guys came in, and walked everyone thru on how to do comps, DCFs, etcs.

 

take a look at some of the smaller places that hire, i believe the likes of rabobank, ing, tokyo-mitsubishi, dbs, all hire summer interns in HK.

Also might want to hit up the likes of mizuho corporate bank, commerzbank, etc that don't post SA positions online but primarily hire out of the Hong Kong universities and see if you can get your leg in the door. Helps if you're from an ivy/comparable school that non-US people have heard of.

good luck.

 

15? Dude, I easily sent out 100 applications every year while I was in University and got rejected 95% of the time. Did my first internship at a local accounting firm (BB FT now for next year.

 

For my firm, HR will do an initial screen to weed out the people obviously unqualified for an interview (don't meet degree requirements/GPA cutoffs, cover letters are barely readable they're so poorly written etc) then post-MBA level consultants do a screen.

Every CV is looked at separately by 2 consultants who recommend a certain number to progress from each school depending on number of interview slots available (usually 10 per school for my office....can vary).

 
Bismarck:

For my firm, HR will do an initial screen to weed out the people obviously unqualified for an interview (don't meet degree requirements/GPA cutoffs, cover letters are barely readable they're so poorly written etc) then post-MBA level consultants do a screen.

Every CV is looked at separately by 2 consultants who recommend a certain number to progress from each school depending on number of interview slots available (usually 10 per school for my office....can vary).

This. Also, resume screening is done individually and remotely since everyone is travelling to different places for work.

 
JustADude:

Did you network heavily? Your GPA is probably the biggest hindrance for first round interviews, and the only way to counteract that is through networking and someone pushing your resume through

Nope. I got cold feet about banking after my recent internship and got overwhelmed with my courseload, so I never really got around to networking too much. I was under the impression that a 3.4 might at least check the box for math majors, but I guess not.

Is it too late to start networking now? I've sent a few emails out previously but either didn't get a response or was told that they had a list of candidates as early as the 3rd week of school (wtf?).

Since I'm still waiting on most of them, would it be a bad idea to consider applying to ER/S&T at the same firms? I'm starting to think they might be a better path given my background and interests.

 
hughwattmate:
JustADude:

Did you network heavily? Your GPA is probably the biggest hindrance for first round interviews, and the only way to counteract that is through networking and someone pushing your resume through

Nope. I got cold feet about banking after my recent internship and got overwhelmed with my courseload, so I never really got around to networking too much. I was under the impression that a 3.4 might at least check the box for math majors, but I guess not.

Is it too late to start networking now? I've sent a few emails out previously but either didn't get a response or was told that they had a list of candidates as early as the 3rd week of school (wtf?).

Since I'm still waiting on most of them, would it be a bad idea to consider applying to ER/S&T at the same firms? I'm starting to think they might be a better path given my background and interests.

I think you're underestimating the competition. I went to a target school and even kids with 3.8+ GPA were aggressively networking. There are only so many interview spots. I would ask your upperclassmen about applying to different roles within the same firm as it is handled differently at different schools. Sometimes it's the same recruiting team for the same school, and it'll look like you're undecided. Other times it doesn't matter. If firms previously had events on campus, that's when you attend and keep in touch with people that you've met. Networking now through just cold emailing will be tough but can still help.

 
Best Response

The incentive is being a helpful human being.

Most people like to 'pay it forward.' Those analysts/associates/MDs were all kids fresh out of school at some point and can relate to your situation.

Picture this....20 years down the road you receive an email from a 20 year old kid who (hopefully) sends you a respectable email addressing:

  1. how you two are connect (school),
  2. why they are emailing you (interested in Asset Management)
  3. a sentence about their background
  4. what they want (10 minutes of your time)

Obviously there are tons of people who won't even follow up to a cold email. Personally, I know what it is like to be that 20 year old kid sending the cold email. More importantly, I had first hand experiences in seeing how helpful it was when a MD, etc would take 10 minutes to meet me for coffee or talk on the phone.

Truly, at the bottom of my heart, I hope that one day I can 'pay it forward,' and provide myself as a resource for kids who were in the same situation that I was. This should apply to anybody from Rhodes Scholars to the non-target kid who grinded his ass off.

 

Very true, I'm just anxious since I'm right in the middle of recruiting season and what is arguably the most important semester as far as career prospects go. I think I am going to start networking extremely aggressively today and all next week - meanwhile I'll throw in a couple apps to ER because it's probably unlikely I get the first round anyways for IB if it is that competitive.

As for people discussing the impact of networking, I have no doubt the majority of people on the interview list got there because they networked. Our school has a special group of wannabe bankers and their resumes are public, and it's quite ridiculous that some kid with a 3.6 in business and "CEO of lawn-care service" gets an interview - meanwhile I'm sitting here trying to solve stochastic differential equations and still not getting shit.

My experience networking in IB has been mostly futile - most people rarely respond and if they do it's a few lines of advice. In other industries, I've had alumni at top quant HFs (Jane Street/Two Sigma/etc) actively push for me and follow up with their team angrily because they hadn't reached out to me. The banking culture is one of the main reasons I got cold feet - I just wish the timing was a little better.

 

Coming from someone who's going through recruiting at a semi-target right now, I'd say your GPA being a hindrance widely varies on the average GPA of the pool of candidates. I have a 3.7 but that's in the bottom third of candidates where I go to school, and they definitely are okay with math majors being lower, but if your GPA is a 3.4 and candidates who get interviews average a 3.7 or a 3.8, that's a pretty big jump. If you didn't get the opportunity to network before I think now is quite late - there's a chance that you can have a great conversation and that one call makes a huge difference, but I think you should set your sights on ER/S&T exclusively.

 
chickenboy:

Coming from someone who's going through recruiting at a semi-target right now, I'd say your GPA being a hindrance widely varies on the average GPA of the pool of candidates. I have a 3.7 but that's in the bottom third of candidates where I go to school, and they definitely are okay with math majors being lower, but if your GPA is a 3.4 and candidates who get interviews average a 3.7 or a 3.8, that's a pretty big jump. If you didn't get the opportunity to network before I think now is quite late - there's a chance that you can have a great conversation and that one call makes a huge difference, but I think you should set your sights on ER/S&T exclusively.

Definitely understandable, most people here average 3.7+ in the business school. The Arts & Sciences College is far less known and I'm likely the only applicant from a non-business background, so they might not be too keen on a 3.4 even though our department average is in the mid 2.0s.

See here's the issue though. Short-term I'm looking for a field that will challenge me, is merit-based, and has opportunities to distinguish myself. Naturally this points to fields like ER/S&T because IBD culture is more falling in place and surviving the 2 year bootcamp. However, long term I would love to be able to run my own tech company and I just feel the knowledge and experience from banking would be far more applicable than staring at the markets all day and gaining a very specialized skillset. That's why I considered banking in the first place.

The majority of OCR starts next week for me, and I think I have until tomorrow to make any changes to my applications... Goddamn

edit: Just got rejected from Jane Street first rounds. They didn't do OCR but I thought I'd at least get a chance to prove myself..

 

The best advice that I have ever received on WSO has always been give in a blunt way, so that's what I'm going to do here. To be completely honest, I think you know why recruiting didn't work out, but you're on WSO hoping that someone gives you another reason. You're not getting first round interviews because you didn't put in the work. You didn't network, your GPA is low, you're applying to some of the toughest banks to get in...What you're doing is the equivalent of an out-of-shape 60-year-old waking up one morning, randomly deciding to compete in a triathlon, and then being flabbergasted that he did not finish in the top ten. You say that you want a field that will challenge you, but it seems that just preparing for IB is too challenging to you. You need to regroup and assess whether or not you truly want to work in IB.

My honest advice to you would be to start network now. Heck, don't even finish reading my post. Close out of WSO and start sending out cold emails. Then, work on that GPA. People are going to come on here and talk about how a 3.4 will get you in. BS. Absolute BS. I spent a year at a "no-name" boutique and a top MM. Even at the "no-name" boutique we got kids with 3.8+ GPAs for our SA program...and this was not in NY or anywhere near a major city.

If nothing works out, start reaching out to boutiques. But, seriously dude, you need to put in the work. This isn't like signing up for a class and getting in just because you paid the class fee.

 

Thank you guys, I guess I was just disillusioned and didn't realize how competitive it was to get in. I'm going to start really pulling that GPA up - never really thought too much of it as a 3.4 in my department is near the top but I realize I should be comparing it to people I'm actually applying against.

Meanwhile I'm going to start looking into alternative fields I'm truly interested in. Equity Research and Asset Management come to mind. If these IB ones work out, great. But most likely they won't so I'll rethink my entire game plan this weekend and then start networking first thing Monday. Hopefully I'll land a decent enough ER/AM internship so when full time recruiting comes next fall, I can be ready.

 

I think there are enough people at the moment that have shown hard work, experience, ecs and have scored in the top 10%. From the people I know it has been a very tough recruiting season and so it is extremely competitive. It isn't just about proving that you are capable of working in finance, but that you are better than almost all of the other applicants. Good luck anyway.

 

Well, we are having to raise the bar at this point due to the tough job market and strong applicant pool, and the brunt is going to get felt by the Ivies and other schools. It used to be that non-target students had a much higher bar to clear than target kids; now everyone is having to clear the same bar and it's even higher than the one the non-target kids had to clear.

Start getting some applications into some prop shops. And keep a positive attitude. It's a tough market, but you've got a decent GPA and you'll find a good job.

 
user_:
Do banks in the UK even consider applicants from the US? A friend of mine goes to a top Ivy and got all the questions correctly on the tests but didn't get an interview. At least HR explained to you why you didn't get it.

They do if you have the right to work in the UK.

 
W.Beach:
Wait a second.....are you saying they mailed you the IQ test to take and return? or am I misleading myself. I want to apply there.

No its an online link. I think the whole test took less than

 

I am not sure intellect helps you that much in trading once you are smarter than 60-70% of the population. You need to be aggressive and driven. I can ace nearly any standardized test as quant, but there are guys who can't who make much better traders than I could.

BUT employers can afford to be picky in this market. HR wants ways to narrow down the applicant pool because they can still find a good candidate in a smaller pool with less interviews.

79% cuts it. A proven trading record and capital ready to put up cuts it even more. Get a job at a prop shop and start saving money. The ability to start your own shop with your own money and run your own business is your trump card against these idiots who think X amount of intellect and/or prestige is required for trading. Take out insider info, and a democratic electronic market is the purest form of meritocracy out there.

 

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