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Career Resources
You're thinking in the right direction. Btw, if you ever think about buyside, GHL will provide much better opportunities and connections than JPM would.
As an associate, I assume you are in this for the longhaul. I would pick whichever group you liked better while interviewing.
As an IB associate? Not likely.
Yeah I think that's probably the right way to think about it. Culture should be the number one thing in consideration in you circumstance. A few smaller points though: At JPM you might find it a bit easier to build clients in the long haul because of the firm's exposure to debt and equity in addition to really decent M&A work. At Greenhill, there just aren't many associates in the firm essp. the ones focused on M&A since they don't do any analyst promotions so it's going to be super lean and you're going to have your hands in everything (also don't have to deal with tons of bullshit compliance stuff).
Personally, if I wanted to stay in banking, I'd go EB over BB.
All I know is that the Managing Directors and Senior Managing Directors at GHL are really helpful when it comes to introducing their guys to buy-siders.
This is a tough one. It is particularly tough for me to answer because I'm an analyst and I'm leaving for PE so I don't know a ton about career banking. That being said, I am at GS/MS/JPM, and I see a lot of happy associates - in fact many of our VPs and MDs have been with out group for years. So there is certainly a lot of upward mobility at BBs despite the vibe that I'm getting from this thread.
Now the next thing I'll say is not my opinion - I have one MD that constantly craps on EBs. He likes to say that they just get a sliver of the deal and a sliver of the fees in most cases, so maybe that's something to consider if you are in it for the long haul and trying to make bank as a career banker. He's a pretty smart guy, but he's also a dick so take it with a grain of salt.
As an associate, I would lean towards JPM (probably towards GHL if I were an analyst). While Greenhill is a great firm and I hear good things about the culture, as an associate there are more opportunities to develop client relationships and become a client banker than at any top boutique. At Evercore, Greenhill, Lazard etc you'll notice that all the top brass came from GS/MS/JPM and the mid level guys are really just executing their deals.
I'm not sure that argument is really that effective anymore. I dunno it seems that EBs only really became a big deal around ten years ago (discounting Lazard of course) and it takes more than ten years to be a rainmaker MD in most cases. Like Centerview was founded in 2006. An associate who joined that year probably just made some sort of junior MD a couple years ago (if they were really, really good).
And haha SmokeyG your MD is a biased asshole. I'll be honest, I'm at a BB and my associates don't seem happy at all. That might just be because I hate them though.
Take Greenhill. Consumer Retail is a hard sector to be in especially if you want to be a long term banker.
Interesting. Why do you say that?
Long term industry decline. Less focus on M&A and more focus on core brands. Most of the established businesses have their own long term bankers.
Long term industry decline. Less focus on M&A and more focus on core brands. Most of the established businesses have their own long term bankers.
The amount of bad advice on this site is shocking. OP, you should always take the option that opens the most doors for you. Greenhill, while excellent, is practically unknown outside of this tiny NY finance bubble. If you are ever considering anything other than a career in banking JPM hands-down.
The bad advice doesn't help. OP, as an associate, shouldn't take the option that opens most doors. He should take the options that best fits his interests and goals (depth vs breadth). It's not like he's going to leave finance and become an artist or something. If he wants to stay in banking or do corpdev, then both JPM and GHL are incredibly well known throughout the street and the F100 corpdev shops. In what realistic scenario would having GHL on your resume be worse than having JPM? Honestly, I think on Wall Street GHL has a better name because it's generally harder to get an associate gig there (an EB) than a massive BB like JPM.
Frankly, I'm shocked that anyone would really even want to be an associate at a BB over an EB. You get better, more meaningful work at an EB, unbeaten exposure to top rainmaker MDs who had the luxury to leave their previous shops and MDs that built their careers at the firm and were in your shoes, none of that compliance bullshit that you're gonna be pretty well antiquated with at JPM, high levels of interaction with clients because of how low the MD to associate ratio is, and probably slightly sharper analysts in general to manage.
Are you a freshman in college? Stop drinking the Kool Aid man. I've worked at GHL/EVR/LAZ before and there are better client development opportunities at a bulge bracket. Most bankers move to top boutiques because they are senior "Board-level" advisors who want to focus on "high level" M&A transactions. While that's great for the top brass (and for the analyst's resumes for buyside recruiting), that also means that the mid-level guys become execution bankers for large Fortune 500 M&A transactions where the MD is the "strategic advisor". In comparison, a VP at JPM, etc. can often manage debt, equity, etc. relationships with smaller clients even though they are not seasoned enough to be the "banker whispering in the CEO's ear". As a result, I feel that someone at a bulge bracket has more opportunity to develop client relationships faster (rather than having to make that tough jump from execution VP/Director to relationship MD). From a transitioning standpoint, I'd rather be the 32-year old VP developing relationships with emerging biotechs and smaller pharma companies than be the guy who runs numbers and builds pitchbooks in the background for Pfizer.
If you don't believe me, go to Greenhill and Evercore's websites and see where their senior folks come from. Almost every single one served as an MD or a director at a bulge bracket before moving over.
I'm not going to fully engage this, but I will point out that this kid seems pretty drunk on EB Kool-Aid. The contrast in opportunities s nowhere near as stark as this post make them out to be. My associates - and I'm in a big group - work daily on the phone with clients, and they also work daily with MDs. Hell, even as an analyst I've been able to a shit ton.
For those of you talking about buyside stuff - irrelevant. He's an associate, so it doesn't really matter if MDs will pick up the phone to recommend an analyst, does it? This also works under the assumption that MDs don't do that at BBs - they do.
Hands down JPM.
I agree with the last poster. You always want to keep doors open and JPM will be a better experience / name all around.
He is lateraling as an Associate, so his options/trajectory is already towards finance. Both are good shops, JPM will have the brand cache and if you don't like the group you could always try to network into other groups (but I am sure that will take time and probably be harder to do as you get closer to VP level). Culturally which group/people did you click with most? That should be factored in given the number of hours you'll be working.
Good luck and a good position to be in nonetheless.
Thanks for all the comments guys. If nothing else, it shows that this is a tough decision and it's hard to go wrong either way. My plan is to stick around for Associate and VP and then reevaluate what I want to do. I liked all the people I've met so far at both places. Will be a tough choice, but I'm very fortunate to be in this position at all.
I feel like the comments in this discussion are "too extreme" in favour of one side or another. Both are excellent opportunities which give you a brandname, solid dealflow, and possible exits. I'd rather decide based on team fit (you are an associate and might be sticking it out for the longer term) and the actual work (focus on consumer banking vs. generalist (M&A + RX)). If I were in your shoes, I'd probably choose GHL since I'm not that interested in the consumer/retail industry and am generally a fan of the generalist model, but that's just me. You honestly can't go wrong with GHL vs. JPM although some people on here make it sound like there is only one right choice.
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