40 Comments
 

Always wondered how that firm pays close to ~100% bonuses given literally no deal flow. Was honestly astounding, but this explains it lmao. I think they also had a big round of layoffs in '22 or '23

 

Glorified MM, literally no place for firms like this in the IB landscape. They were never relevant

 

Wasn't there some clown here who asked whether to go for PWP vs GS IBD lmao? This forum for sure has brainwashed a generation of kids on how great these so called EBs are. Fucking joke

 

I don't think any sane person is advocating for taking EBs over GS IBD, unless (1) it's a weak / niche GS group (Cross markets, Real Estate) or (2) the EB is CVP, EVR or PJT RSSG (and even then, a GS TMT is the better choice overall)

 

This is actually a valid question if you want to stay in IB long term. Better pay, more collegial culture and fewer hours than Goldman might make it a better place to go A2A. It’s worth considering in that case. 

 

Yes and for anyone who’s a SA there: They fired first years right before their bonuses. Truly disgusting place to work

 

PWP is a bit of a tired franchise relying on a few aging players. The business is very “old school” in its approach and hasn’t adapted well to big business trends and sponsors / tech / AI infrastructure. Kind of see it as the next Greenhill - pays its people too well for the level of productivity and doesn’t invest in real franchises the way EVR, CVP and others have.

 

This is a classic problem that boutiques face - growth beyond their traditional familiar niches. They start off with a few rainmakers and dominate the few lanes that their dealmakers bring in. But to grow out from that to become a true "elite" boutique advisory with sustained business requires more than just a few rainmakers - you need a broad and concentrated effort to expand coverage across most areas. You need to anticipate upcoming areas, pay real rainmakers to join, and grow your coverage universe, etc. etc.

Their focus on "large cap" dealmaking has left them significantly behind in terms of sponsors, middle market, and other coverage areas. EVR kept its pace in middle market and large caps; MOE did restructuring and sponsor backed deals. PWP was known for large cap deals; but this was in 2016 and they clearly missed the sponsor led dealmaking bonanza in 2018-2022. 

PWP was never really relevant outside of industrials, healthcare and consumers (briefly telcos) where most of their original dealmakers come from in 2006 (except for restructuring which has been a success).  They focused on ultra large transactions for corporations - becoming advisor of choice for them and that helped them become who they were. Acquisition of TPH felt like a natural expansion into energy (TPH dominated large cap energy deals). Once the two founders at TPH retired during Covid, and Joe Perella essentially also did following the SPAC listing - there's been little momentum to grow beyond what had traditionally served them. Its fair to say they are lost in this.

Its unfortunate because some of alums who joined them (including a very close friend who worked there for many years) and left after their analyst years speak highly of the culture in NY office. Weinberg was a formidable force of culture (i've interacted with him at Milliken and its admirable that he build out his own house after leaving GS) but its never been what his cousin at EVR has achieved. 

I remember Peter mentioning on stage at Milliken a few years ago that he sees consolidation in boutiques business- that many will fail to grow out of their initial areas of strength once the deal making boom slowed. And these will be the ones that will scale down/close/get absorbed. He clearly felt that was the biggest risk PWP faced- and that's exactly where they are today + the added burden of being public that puts even more pressure to grow. 

The SPAC (which was more to pay out the existing shareholders) will probably go down as a mistake IMO- the business pre-SPAC and post-SPAC is clearly on a different trajectory vis a vis their competitors and where the industry is heading.

Not surprised this has happened/will continue to happen. The unfortunate reality in this business is - growing takes time, money and patience (e.g CVP with tech coverage post Handler). But will the public markets & investors give them that benefit of doubt given how the last few years have panned out?

Agree with the MD above- they seem closer to GUGG or Greenhill (GUGG is private with a sizable asset management arm so has more flexibility to alter its business operations; Greenhill was public but that business that failed to grow meaningfully before Mizuho took them out). At some point, PWP will be closer to Baird/William Blair than EVER/CVP beyond a few large deals that some of the dealmakers bring in. 

 

Do you think it's likely that a foreign or other non NYC bank trying to get into the US market might buy them out a la Greenhill?

A little nervous cause I'm starting summer ASO there and really liked them and the culture they have which would certainly change if they got acquired.

 

nychimp99

This is a classic problem that boutiques face - growth beyond their traditional familiar niches. They start off with a few rainmakers and dominate the few lanes that their dealmakers bring in. But to grow out from that to become a true "elite" boutique advisory with sustained business requires more than just a few rainmakers - you need a broad and concentrated effort to expand coverage across most areas. You need to anticipate upcoming areas, pay real rainmakers to join, and grow your coverage universe, etc. etc.

Their focus on "large cap" dealmaking has left them significantly behind in terms of sponsors, middle market, and other coverage areas. EVR kept its pace in middle market and large caps; MOE did restructuring and sponsor backed deals. PWP was known for large cap deals; but this was in 2016 and they clearly missed the sponsor led dealmaking bonanza in 2018-2022. 

PWP was never really relevant outside of industrials, healthcare and consumers- where most of their original dealmakers come from in 2006 (except for restructuring which has been a success).  They focused on ultra large transactions - becoming advisor of choice for them and that helped them become who they were. Acquisition of TPH felt like a natural expansion into energy (TPH dominated large cap energy deals). Once the two founders at TPH retired during Covid, and Joe Perella essentially also did following the SPAC listing - there's been little momentum to grow beyond what had traditionally served them. Its fair to say they are lost in this.

Its unfortunate because some of alums who joined them (including a very close friend who worked there for many years) and left after their analyst years speak highly of the culture in NY office. Weinberg was a formidable force of culture (i've interacted with him at Milliken and its admirable that he build out his own house after leaving GS) but its never been what his cousin at EVR has achieved. 

I remember Peter mentioning on stage at Milliken a few years ago that he sees consolidation in boutiques business- that many will fail to grow out of their initial areas of strength once the deal making boom slowed. And these will be the ones that will scale down/close/get absorbed. He clearly felt that was the biggest risk PWP faced- and that's exactly where they are today + the added burden of being public that puts even more pressure to grow. 

The SPAC (which was more to pay out the existing shareholders) will probably go down as a mistake IMO- the business pre-SPAC and post-SPAC is clearly on a different trajectory vis a vis their competitors and where the industry is heading.

Not surprised this has happened/will continue to happen. The unfortunate reality in this business is - growing takes time, money and patience (e.g CVP with tech coverage post Handler). But will the public markets & investors give them that benefit of doubt given how the last few years have panned out?

Agree with the MD above- they seem closer to GUGG or Greenhill (GUGG is private with a sizable asset management arm so has more flexibility to alter its business operations; Greenhill was public but that business that failed to grow meaningfully before Mizuho took them out). At some point, PWP will be closer to Baird/William Blair than EVER/CVP beyond a few large deals that some of the dealmakers bring in. 

Spot on. The other challenge that boutiques set up by real rainmakers face is whether partners choose to invest in the business or pay themselves. Ken Moelis and Roger Altman and their early partners chose the former. PWP and Greenhill chose the latter. The results are evident.

 

Here is the truth.In terms of comp / exits it is absolutely a respected shop. AS1 comp was $400K which is no joke.

However…the reality is slower deal flow has made the experience rather subpar.

Deal flow was extremely strong until about 2023 then it fell through.

Probably declining yes but if you wanna do 2 years, make $, and have a good shot to land MF/UMM PE is it a solid option for most students.

 

Associate 1 in IB-M&A:

Lol PWP pays $400-$600K for AS1-3. I don’t give a fuck if “deal flow is slower” 😂😂


This is wrong and inflated

 

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