How are Asians not considered minorities for Diversity programs?

It makes no sense... All these banks' diversity programs say, "...is open to students who identify as Black, Hispanic or Native American students in their sophomore or junior year."

Is there a reason for this? Last time I checked, Asians are minorities.

Comments (73)

Jul 20, 2016

Like white males, Asian males are overrepresented in banks. More of either group does not do anything for ethnic diversity.

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Best Response
Aug 31, 2016

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Jul 29, 2016

Best comment I've seen on the internet. Would pass along bananas if i had any.

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Jul 28, 2016

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Aug 31, 2016

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Jul 20, 2016

This thread is glorious.

Funniest
Jul 20, 2016

You got it all wrong, OP. It says "open to students who IDENTIFY" - if Elizabeth Warren can be Native American, I'm sure anyone can.

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Jul 20, 2016

Just identify as an attack helicopter if anyone asks. You'll get minority brownie points and get your leftie fix for the day.

But on a serious note, please tell me you're joking as to why Asians aren't seen as a minority in finance.

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Jul 20, 2016

I wonder if there are actual Asians or Caucasians who apply to these diversity programs and get accepted. I never tried to do it, but I remember that there was a JPM coffee chat for diversity students and everyone was invited.

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Jul 21, 2016

i am north african and once tried to apply as african at a british bank. HR sent me an email to have that corrected.

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Jul 21, 2016

Were they all URM? Or were there actually whites/asians?

Jul 28, 2016

@eagles7" @Entrepreneur100" and anyone else interested

Don't do it. HR will find out.

Jul 21, 2016

You're only disadvantaged if the government decides you are.

How society has fallen...

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Jul 22, 2016

Because Asians already make up a quarter of Wall Street's workforce, while African Americans, Hispanics, and Native Americans each make up less than 10%.

Jul 29, 2019

It is way less than that, at my BB I would say black, Hispanic, and Middle Eastern represent probably 10% altogether. It is mostly Asian and White males.

Jul 22, 2016

Everyone trying to come up with reasons why it does not really count as diversity have no clue what they are talking about.

The reason why those diversity quotas exist is because they are set BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. Businesses that fail to meet them become ineligible for a huge swath of benefits. Currently those categories are Native American, Black, Hispanic, Eskimo, female, and military veterans. If you fall into any one of those categories you count as a "diversity hire" and help the business with their quotas.

Care to guess what the list of people eligible for any diversity program looks like?

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Jul 22, 2016

Where is this law which says that you shall recruit wemen gays and minorities ?
From my limited knowledge the directives come from the board.

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Jul 22, 2016

There is not a single law. It is a result of a series of executive orders.

And of course the directives are going to come from the board, because the board has to decide whether or not they want to chase the perks associated with meeting diversity quotas, and then see that it gets implemented. If you do not understand the environment they operate in and the pressures they face then it will seem to you like an arbitrary board decision.

Jul 28, 2016

What about sexual orientation?

It ain't what you know, it's who you know

Jan 1, 2018

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Jul 22, 2016

While I completely agree and acknowledge you had to work hard, I can say you did not get the benefit of being "URM" because you're not from America. To meet the quotas, you've got to be African-American. Pretty stupid, huh?

Jul 22, 2016

Got it, I appreciate you clarifying that.

And quite frankly, I don't want - or rather "need" - benefits of being a URM. Sure, short-cuts are always nice but it's always more satisfying knowing you endured and succeeded on your own merit.

TL;DR URM benefits create entitlement complexes. Suck it up and work hard just like everyone else.

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Jul 29, 2016

Not true one bit, it may say that on the applications but they are open to all minorities. There are tons of international students at these diversity events. A few kids I met were from Puerto Rico, Brazil, Uganda, Nigeria, etc. Would be curious to hear if anyone here is in HR and can specify whether or not the "Will you need Visa sponsorship" question auto-dings applicants to FT jobs.

Jul 28, 2016
CubofWallSt:

For context, I'm a URM I guess? International student from Zimbabwe at a top-state target school - no Affirmative Action policy there, so that conjecture can be discarded immediately.

Playing and in some cases blaming the "URM card" is a hit-or-miss strategy that probably won't get you anywhere. Focus on what's important instead.

For me, that's raising my dismal GPA of 3.17 to 3.5+ and networking extensively with my fraternity's chapter manager (ED at top BB in NYC) for any possible opportunities given my current circumstances.

Work hard, smart and for yourself.

I think you are mistaken if you don't think your background was not taken into consideration for school admissions. Someone from Zimbabwe is a far more attractive candidate than a regular white dude from Alabama, any day, every day. If you are black from Zimbabwe, even better. Colleges are very serious on their diversity makeups. You'd be surprised how race intense these guys are. I used to date a girl working in admissions for an Ivy

Jan 1, 2018

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Jul 26, 2016

I legitimately feel sorry for Asian (of any kind) and Middle Eastern men in American society. Do not get any of the benefits of belonging to a minority group, I've found that people say racist/intolerant things against them without giving it a second though, and they get held to the same standard as white males when it comes to race and politics. I've had friends from those minority groups who had to deal with openly being called racial slurs, racist jokes, and openly racist comments while there would be an uproar if people of URM groups had to face something of that nature.

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Jul 26, 2016

Truly is tricky for them. No social/unconscious benefit in being the majority and no URM status. Never really thought about it like that before. I am assuming we are speaking primarily in the context of the professional workplace.

What does everyone think about having to "overcome" the affirmative-action/URM thing when one does successfully enter the workforce? It is very easy to notice the one Black/Hispanic kid in the room, and, unfortunately, I do not think it's too unrealistic to assume that people will subconsciously (or even openly) assume/say "s/he only got this job because he's black didn't he?"

I think this is a bit unfortunate, as well. Consider a group of 20 analysts. Say, 12 white males from upper/middle class backgrounds. 4 Asian guys, 3 Asian girls, and 1 Black kid. It is possible that one of the former 19 people in this hypothetical situation was "underqualified", but got his seat because his dad plays golf with an MD, or he has a similar background to one of the VPs because they led similar lifestyles, or some other situation which I do not think is inherently bad or supremely unfair, but is not noticeable. No one can "see" any of this by glancing around the room.

I guess I am wondering if the fact that it is typically very clear that a URM is, well, a URM might have any effect here. I have never worked in recruiting in any capacity, so I have no idea how any of this actually works.

Thoughts?

Controversial
Jul 26, 2016

I am the only black dude at my office and I can guarantee you idgaf what others think abt how I got here. A family friend got into IB through SEO (lower BB SA then parlayed that to MS/GS tech for full time) and now works for a top tech vc. I guarantee you he didn't/doesn't give a single fk about how others think he got there. He is focused on crushing it and moving up, as am I. Also, if you think Asians don't get the subconscious benefit of being considered the "model minority"/ "hardworking"/ "smart" then you are fooling yourself. While a black dude has to prove he isn't an idiot/lazy due to stereotypes, an Asian dude has to prove he IS an idiot/lazy... that makes for a huge difference.

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Jul 26, 2016

With black and Hispanic guys, I've noticed that there is this "wow" or "cool" factor going on in the professional world. People want to hear of the "success story" and are amazed by the success of the guy who is a URM, mainly because it earns them good will themselves and no one actually wants to be considered a "racist" by today's standards and openly say something so bigoted such as "he only got the job because of his race".

For Asians and Arabs (especially the males); it is more of a "we don't have to be nice to them to earn good will" type of deal like it is with other minority groups. In modern day American society, the groups face the usual setbacks that come with being a minority such as being viewed as the "other" (I've heard some nasty stereotypes being openly said about men of those groups, even right in front of their faces). Tell a black joke lose your job but mock an Asian accent, have a nice laugh with your coworkers and boss over it.

All I am saying is that Asians (of any kind) and Arabs, particularly males of that group, have become the modern day punching bags for American society. I don't condone racism, bigotry, or hatred in general but I am just stating what I have observed in the professional world.

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Jan 1, 2018

lol

Jan 1, 2018

Absolutely, and it doesn't hurt to mention that you're 1/4 native american

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We are excited to formally extend to you an offer to join Bank of Ameria

Jan 1, 2018

lol indeed.

Jan 1, 2018

I applied to all those in college, didn't get any of them but its worth a shot as I know people that have.

Jul 26, 2016

Asians, keep voting for democrats. Change you can believe in.

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Jul 26, 2016
adapt or die:

Asians, keep voting for democrats. Change you can believe in.

Funny, this reminds me of a situation with an old friend of mines.

Caught up recently with one of my closest friends growing up who is Indian (that's dot not feather btw), so technically he is considered Asian by the US census. The guy voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 because he was "supposed to" and the Republicans were the big bad bullies out to get him. Now my friend moves to NYC, lives in a liberal area of it, and spends a couple of years of hanging out with an almost exclusively Democrat voting 20 something crowd. I was told by my friend how every single day the crowd made off hand racist comments right to his face, imitated an Indian accent to get under his skin, and a bunch of other issues I won't get too much into on here. Whenever he would call it out, they would tell him to chill out, it's all in good fun, and it's the "right wing" that is the racist one he needs to worry about

To make a long story short, my friend started viewing politics more objectively and found that Republican policies somehow benefit him more as a guy. My friend started making friends with a more mixed crowd that leaned a lot more to the right, felt a lot more accepted among them and said they saw him as an "individual" rather than his race. Now my friend will be voting for Donald Trump this November, the look on the faces of the few hardcore liberals I've seen him tell that to = priceless.

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Jul 26, 2016

If you can't take a few racist jokes from your friends then they were never your friends to begin with. I'd be curious to hear what policies of Trump's he deems would be beneficial to a middle aged Indian kid that I assume works in the professional world. A co-worker of mine is also voting for Trump, and although I like the guy, I have yet to hear why... other than "he'll shake things up", whatever the fuck that means.

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Jul 26, 2016

Yeah, it's called growing up

Jul 27, 2016
Postgradwonderer:

adapt or die:Asians, keep voting for democrats. Change you can believe in.

Funny, this reminds me of a situation with an old friend of mines.

Caught up recently with one of my closest friends growing up who is Indian (that's dot not feather btw), so technically he is considered Asian by the US census. The guy voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 because he was "supposed to" and the Republicans were the big bad bullies out to get him. Now my friend moves to NYC, lives in a liberal area of it, and spends a couple of years of hanging out with an almost exclusively Democrat voting 20 something crowd. I was told by my friend how every single day the crowd made off hand racist comments right to his face, imitated an Indian accent to get under his skin, and a bunch of other issues I won't get too much into on here. Whenever he would call it out, they would tell him to chill out, it's all in good fun, and it's the "right wing" that is the racist one he needs to worry about

To make a long story short, my friend started viewing politics more objectively and found that Republican policies somehow benefit him more as a guy. My friend started making friends with a more mixed crowd that leaned a lot more to the right, felt a lot more accepted among them and said they saw him as an "individual" rather than his race. Now my friend will be voting for Donald Trump this November, the look on the faces of the few hardcore liberals I've seen him tell that to = priceless.

I'm going to post this neat little anecdote to my facebook

Jul 28, 2016

I've gone to a few of these and can shed some light on the topic. They're usually 1-3 day events meant to introduce people of color to the firm. Black would be harder to prove but I believe that there are some white kids who decided to apply and figure that they could just say that they're hispanic if questioned (since some hispanics have light skin). Usually the people who abuse the system are people from top tier schools who don't even need to go. I met a few kids that looked white as can be and had European accents. There are usually a couple international students who go but most of them are from the Caribbean or Africa. Personally, I wouldn't recommend trying to cheat the system because it really isn't worth it. Any target student will have MUCH more access to these firms than others from lesser-known schools. In all honesty, most of the BB diversity events just want minorities from top schools and 3.5+ GPAs. They don't really care as much for kids who already have had internships, 3.7+ GPAs, but a non-target. I went to an event and we had placards with our names & school on the table. The schools at my table were: Penn, Uchicago, Northwestern, Yale, Harvard, Cornell, and my non-target school that they hadn't heard of. They all kind of squinted at my placard and tried to figure out where the hell my school was and how I had even heard of the event. Honestly, it felt kind of inspiring and raised a few eyebrows lol.

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Jul 29, 2016

Wow something just like this happened to me at an EB. Was this for banking?

Jul 29, 2016

Yep it was at a BB. During lunch they had employees rotate around the table and each time they would ask we introduce our name and school. It was quite hilarious.

Jul 28, 2016

Its all about numbers and in the case of universities reaching what they call critical mass. The way most people think of minorities its basically anyone that isn't white however I believe governments, company's, and educational institutions look at it in terms of numbers.

Wall Street and the financial services industry has historically been dominated by white male and nowadays you'll have quite a few Asians as well. This is why firms such as GS have special events for women, blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans, and LGBT members because this subset has been underrepresented in the industry when compared to current demographic trends.

It does raise questions such as what if you're white but from South Africa? Do you count as an African-American if you moved to the US?

What about Asians...is it fair to lump them into one big group? AFAIK Asians are usually composed of Indians and Chinese with equal amounts Korean and maybe even Japanese in the industry. However you won't meet very many Vietnamese, Cambodian, Russian, or Central Asians so shouldn't these people be categorized and allowed access to the same recruiting events that blacks, Hispanics, and Native Americans are invited to?

At the end of the day I'm not a fan of racial quotas or diversity events. Imagine trying to apply the same logic to professional sports?

Why should GS (unless they choose to) be "forced" to recruit blacks who may not even care to work at an investment bank and prefer a career in sports and are aiming to make it to the pros or semi-pro leagues?

Jul 28, 2016

what would help here is if someone knew what percentage of each minority a firm has to hire in order to meet these stupid Gov or board set mandates. Does anyone know the percentage? what about when you are applying for B schools?

Jul 28, 2016

I could be wrong but I don't think there is any government mandate. I may also be wrong about this but it seems that firms like GS tend to be more liberal (i.e. hired an illegal immigrant and promoted her to VP) and its more of an internal push to attract minorities.

I would be interested as well if the above is wrong and there is indeed a government mandate to hit certain % a la carrot or stick method (i.e. hire more minorities and we won't investigate into you so hard).

Jul 28, 2016

Lol how mad are people to MS me for speaking the truth? The fact is I don't lose sleep over some dude who has no idea attributing my hire to some quota, my friends who are minorities in the industry feel the same way. Sorry if that hurts feelings.

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Jul 28, 2016

Because the average wealth of each race looks like this:

White People: $111,146
Asian People: $91,440

Black People: $11,184
Mexican People: $13,900

Source:
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/03/15/mericans-are-transf...
Which is kind of bullshit because I came from redneck trailer trash white parents, and I know for certain my entire families net worth is probably like -$50,000 due to debt. Whatevs. I'll just sip my Monster and enjoy my 'white privilege'.

"It is better to have a friendship based on business, than a business based on friendship." - Rockefeller.

"Live fast, die hard. Leave a good looking body." - Navy SEAL

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Jul 28, 2016

Not only wealth, but also implicit bias. A white person carries more respect from others (including blacks) than a black person, and so on. Even if you are white trash, you will have more opportunities because you are white. It sucks for you, but it also sucks for the black guy from MIT who always has to prove himself.

I don't think it is is a way to level the field by the way. I actually think we should spend disproportionately more money on URMs in primary and secondary education

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Jul 28, 2016

I agree. I was being melodramatic cause I know white privilege is a real societal thing. The thing is no matter what we do, giving more funding to URMs as long as white people are the majority we will always have an un-contested advantage.

It's a biological and societal thing which most likely can't be fixed in whole.

"It is better to have a friendship based on business, than a business based on friendship." - Rockefeller.

"Live fast, die hard. Leave a good looking body." - Navy SEAL

Jul 28, 2016
UTDFinanceGuy:

Because the average wealth of each race looks like this:

White People: $111,146Asian People: $91,440

Black People: $11,184Mexican People: $13,900

Source:http://www.cnbc.com/2015/03/15/mericans-are-transf...

Which is kind of bullshit because I came from redneck trailer trash white parents, and I know for certain my entire families net worth is probably like -$50,000 due to debt. Whatevs. I'll just sip my Monster and enjoy my 'white privilege'.

To be fair, Kanye's ($50M) in debt is holding back the Black number to the mere $11k average, thankfully with the help of Zuckerberg and few more 'videotapes' from Kim and he should be in the clear...

Jul 28, 2016

I was always conflicted on whether or not to apply for these things as "hispanic" (part spanish). Technically, I am hispanic, but I assumed I would be fucked by HR for being a gringo and a 100% white american male. I interpreted "hispanic" as meaning latino or central/south american.

Jul 28, 2016

Hispanic refers to Central/South America, as well as certain countries in the Carribean.

Jul 28, 2016

Generally, it's people from the Latin America region: Mexican, Puerto Rican, Ecuadorian, Colombian, etc.

Jul 28, 2016

@BobTheBaker @BobTheBaker

Yeah, in the 'hispanic' criteria for gov. stuff it basically states that, then tacks on "or other Spanish culture or origin" at the end. I would assume Spain fits into that mold

Jul 28, 2016

The same people who are complaining that diversity is unfair are the same people who legitimately believe in racial superiority. It's actually quite ironic. The diversity events at these banks are a mixed bag, some banks try to have every employee included in the event be a minority while others have all white/asian presenters.

Make America White Again

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Jul 29, 2016

Some of you are missing the point of "diversity" programs. It isn't to hire people that are diverse (we are all diverse in some way). It is to give groups of people that are underrepresented in the workforce a chance to get into that said workforce. Look at it this way; an individual is more likely to hire someone that they feel is similar to them (someone they will like). If the majority of people that have a certain job are of a particular race, they are more likely to hire people that are the same race as them, even if both candidates are equally qualified (it is human nature). So, "diversity" programs are meant to curb this natural bias to give qualified candidates that are different than the workforce a chance. Asians aren't part of "diversity" programs because they represent a larger percentage of the workforce relative to their population. Basically "diversity" program sounds better than "curb bias" program.

Jul 29, 2016

Adding this to my list of dumbest questions I've heard in IB...

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Dec 4, 2016

Asians are considered minorities for many programs. A lot of the participants in SEO, probably the biggest/ most prominent program on the street, are Asian. This program is run by an outside party instead of the banks themselves, so that has something to do with it.

Aug 9, 2019

All I have to say is the numbers don't lie. Asians are overrepresented in financial services? Says who?

https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat18.htm

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Aug 13, 2019
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Aug 13, 2019
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