How Many Hours Do Traders Work?
Oh, and how stressful is trading? I heard it's very stressful. Thanks!
Work Day for Traders on Wall Street
The answer to the OP's question will vary depending on the type of "trader" that they are referencing. Broadly speaking, there are two kinds of traders on Wall Street - a buy side trader and a sell side trader whose jobs are notably different and require different hours on the job.
Hours for Sell Side Sales Trader
On the "sell-side" of Wall Street, traders work to meet the needs of buy side clients by moving large blocks of securities (financial products). They spend their time deeply focused on the market and the intricacies of their product. While their work hours will vary based on the desk they work on, you can safely assume hours similar to 6 am - 6 pm Monday - Friday. This of course will vary as the trader may have meetings in the morning that they need to prep for or deliverables they need to prep after the market closes. That being said the assumption is 12 hours a day 5 days a week = 60 hours a week.
Buy Side Analyst Hours
In a separate thread on the subject, our users shared their experiences below with hours for hedge fund analysts ranging between 60 - 90 hours a week.
Just worked an 110 hour week at a multi-strat hedge fund (value, GARP and special situations). ~70% of the time though, work is 70-90 hours week. 13 hours/day on the weekdays is pretty much the minimum, but there is always some spillover on nights/weekends.
User @UBmonkey" shared the experience of a trade modeler at a hedge fund:
Normally I’m in at 7 usually out by 7 or 8 sometimes later. I average 60-70 but I’m not in research - I’m on trade modeling and some tech projects. However, people in ops are in at 9 and out by 6 and I hear they start at 60-70 and get a 20% bonus.
User @Bondarb", a hedge fund partner, explained the hours at a Portfolio Manager level:
I am in the office from 6 am-4 pm weekdays but the job is basically 24-7. Right now I have positions in a few different time zones including New Zealand so risk is most certainly a global thing that doesn’t care about what your hours are.The thing I have found about hedge funds that deal in liquid 24-7 markets is that as you get more responsibility the hours decrease but the pressure increases. It becomes more of a lifestyle that revolves around markets as opposed to something that can be defined by "I work 9-5." Some days I am in the office for a fairly short day but other times I am up all night worrying about a position halfway around the World or I am talking to an Asian analyst at midnight.
How Stressful is Trading?
The stress level of the work will depend on your role (buy side vs. sell side) and whether or not you are currently carrying risk. If you are invested in something you will likely be stressed about the future of your investment especially as more data comes out about your investment.
The tough part is what happens when you leave your desk (if you have overnight positions, which you would since FX markets are 24/7). Sure, someone else takes over the desk in London or Tokyo or whatever, but he told me that after leaving his desk, he's checking his positions on his blackberry every hour (even in the night). That's what's tough. Now I think FX is probably the toughest in this regard, but I'm sure if you're on a very low volume/illiquid desk, you don't have to deal with these issues, but there are other things that can stress you out (i.e. complex structured products etc.).
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69
I asked how many hours traders work, not what you and your boyfriend like to do. Haha!
96
:)
Varies by desk. Stressful when you lose.
Yes.
((((6^2 * 10) + sqrt((5000*3) - 600)) / 4! ) * 4 ) - log(1 * 10^11)
54.7, and is a transcendental number
Thanks! That's not too bad I guess.
higher than 40 so you might as well forget about it
Lol..40 is my ideal number of hours. I'm willing to go to about 55, at least initially.
roughly 60-70
I work at a top MM (think BNP, SOC GEN etc.) in Europe. All the traders on my desk work from 7-5 (with 15 min on either end) mon-fri.
50 hours.
From what a friend (VP, FX Options at BB) tells me, it's not the hours that are tough. He says the day goes by really fast and doesn't even feel it if he works right through lunch. The tough part is what happens when you leave your desk (if you have overnight positions, which you would since FX markets are 24/7). Sure, someone else takes over the desk in London or Tokyo or whatever, but he told me that after leaving his desk, he's checking his positions on his blackberry every hour (even in the night). That's what's tough. Now I think FX is probably the toughest in this regard, but I'm sure if you're on a very low volume/illiquid desk, you don't have to deal with these issues, but there are other things that can stress you out (i.e. complex structured products etc.).
Credit trading here, do 7-7. Equities guys 630-5ish. Eq Dervs stay longer, kinda like the bitches to the traders. Commodities i noticed varies by day, but come in the latest - 9am and no big deal. Interest rate swaps around 8-8, probably stay the latest. Cant figure out why, but its really just 2 guys and they seem to take big breaks during the day.
Re the guy checking his FX positions on his bb at every hour of the night - very possible, but id assume this is a junior guy? The older guys i see are a bit more relaxed with FX. And i dont mean the sales guys who are carefree, but the FX guys just always have some sort of hedges on to make sure they dont flip their shit.
And yes, day passes super quickly typically. Everything before lunch is a blur really.
No offense man, but why did u start another thread. Couldn't you just ask this on the same one? Just wondering
No, people were being assholes on that thread, but it seems to have trickled into here too.
I see, well trading is lower than IBD prolly 60ish average, I think the(base) formula is.
(hours worked)+(risk taken) = salary(with bonus) IBD = high hours + with ok risk = good salary S&T= lower (than IBD) hours + higher (than IBD) risk= good salary
Idk for sure but that is my opinion
i thought you wanted to teach high school
You thought wrong.
45-60 you actually work. The rest time is spent bearing risk and trying to find an edge.
i.e. when you wake up at 4am to look at week ahead weather forecasts if your in energy. When you read stuff for 3 hours on a sunday to figure out the macro picture. So on and so on. Hours worked is not a concern in trading, unless your on a complete fully flow desk with amazing sales folks just bringing tons of shit in the door. The risk and the ability that you can't stand up or even take a piss at times is the bad part.
First Year BB Trading Hours (Originally Posted: 12/19/2008)
Can someone fill me in on what they actually are? I've heard wildly different answers, but most emphasize how much you are the bitch.
depends on desk...10 to 14 hour days.
You're gonna be the first person on the desk and the last person to leave. Totally depends on what desk you're on though
Just out of curiosity, what desks "typically" work the most/least? Or is it not that cut and dry?
a large part if it is determined by the MD's on the desk and how much they value face time...
gathering this from some of my friends at various BBs in S&T
equity sales 630-530 high grade trading 530-630 high yield research 7-7 cash equity trading 6-5 equity financing trading 630-530 distressed trading 6-630
from my experience in rates id say everyone starts about 6:30-7 and leaves as follows:
gov/agencies - 5:15-6 pm on average swaps - 6:30-7 pm, sometimes earlier swaptions 8-9 pm (have seen less hours at different shops here) exotics 6-6:30 pm
ultimately as a jr guy its your job to be there first and be the guy to ensure everything else is ok which means you're the last to leave.
Commodities trading: Get in at 8:30 - 9:00 and leave at around 8:00 - 8:30. This was in Asia but it may be different here. The rates guys always used to work the hardest, especially the guys in rates structuring.
Sounds fun, reminds me of going to the dentist
Commodities Sales = 7 am - btw 7 and 8 pm (for junior people) Oil Trading = 6 am - btw 4 and 7 pm Nat Gas Trading = 7 am - btw 5 and 6 pm Power Trading = 7 am - btw 6 and 8 pm Commodities Structuring = 8 or 9 am to much later than I'm ever there....
both shops ive been at, exotics worked the least of rate derivatives. could just be my experience though
carbon traders used to have the best hours.
For foreign exchange, you usually show up between 6:30-7 am and go home between 5-7 pm.
if you are worrying about hours you will not survive in this business. you work as long as it takes you to finish your work and then if people are still there you stay to learn.
11 @ 13
not BB
I agree with 10 to 14. Depends on the desk, and what's going on that day.
what about metals
For london:
cash equity sales/salestrading: 6:00-6:30 - 5ish cash equity trading: 6:45ish - 5ish Flow equity derivs trading: 6:30 - 6-7ish Exotics equity derivs: 7:30ish - 8ish
Structured credit trading: 7 - 8 for the correlation traders, 9 - 9:30ish for the 'deal' guys
Structured credit trading is normally much later at my bank, can be closer to midnight in some instances.
FX Derivatives London:
6:45-5:15 ish, beautiful.
Trading Hours and Commuting (Originally Posted: 03/01/2010)
For a S&T SA, how early do you need to be in the office by? I'm a one hour train ride away from NYC and I was thinking I'd probably be able to commute since I'm guessing I'd have to be in by 8 am at the earliest and out by 5'ish at the latest (assuming normal 40 hour week). I figure there's little point in living in NYC and shelling out so much cash to live there since it's not IB where you'd be working all day.
Do most S&T people tend to commute?
Thanks!
I once had an internship with a 1.5 hours commute once a week. I wanted to kill myself (I was working 12 hours a day though).
Do you know what product/desk you'd be on or is it rotational? Equities or Fixed Income?
Plan on working until at least 6:00pm, or as late as 7:00 pm depending on your duties. Some people drive in from and back to Connecticut, or in from LI. LI has probably the best commuter trains that will get you to the downtown subway or taxis.
I've heard that you have to be in by 6 am for trading. It might just be for full time, but don't be surprised. I'll be doing S+T SA too.
Operate on the assumption you'll need to be in by 7/7:30. Many trading floors have a 7am morning call
Rates ~ 6:30 AM - 7:00 PM FX ~ 6:00 AM - 6:00 PM Structured Products ~ 7:30 AM - 7/8 PM
Yeah, you may want to consider renting a place closer to work. Depending on where you are working, take a look at apartments in Brooklyn. It's a much shorter commute and you can find places (if you also find roommates) for less than $1000/month.
Most senior people commute. Most junior people live close-by. You'll work long hours (first one in, last one out), you'll be out for drinks. You worked hard to get your SA spot - don't ruin it by being cheap on a place to stay. Don't assume a 40 hour work week - expect 60 intense hours.
Check out NYU dorms. Columbia dorms work as well - tons of SAs living there. The smart SAs split a cab to work, much faster (no traffic in the AM) and is pretty affordable when you split it 3-4 ways.
you can definitely commute if you want to, but that'll be your summer because you should plan on being to your desk by 6:00 for right now. Maybe you start and no one gets there until 7, great, but plan on 6.
Commute - you're tired all day and your internship is your life for the summer.
I lived a 5 minute door to door commute and it was awesome
It's rotational. You guys are probably right, I'll just find a place in the city.
Thanks for the advice!
I know someone who commutted during the rotational program. He said it was a mistake (and I'd believe it), you're already working enough, it would eat up a few hours of your free time... which is proportionally a lot.
Senior level Sales & Trading pay/hours/lifestyle (bulge bracket) (Originally Posted: 09/02/2013)
I have recently become interested in sales and trading jobs, particularly working in equity markets. My question is, if I were to gain a job and remain in Sales and Trading at a bulge bracket investment bank, what would life be like at a senior position such as Managing Director in terms of pay and hours/lifestyle. I have found a lot of information of life as a sales and trading analyst but less about senior levels in Sales and Trading.
Any info would be appreciated thanks.
I know that at a BB (at least one for sure) an MD gets base 600k, then a bonus that could be well over 100% of salary depending on how, firm/division/group/individual performed.
as far as lifestyle, I am not sure about S&T per say, but an MD in trading on the buy side of said BB, is in at 7ish and out around 430. Normal for MD to respond to emails after hours and on weekends.
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