How to be a good S&T Intern
Hey monkeys,
I will be interning at a BB in S&T and I am wondering some of the key skills or abilities I should pick up before summer. Anything like python/vba's I should be learning? My current preference is to work sales if that matter at all.
Apart from that, what can I do on the job to be a good and helpful (as possible) intern?
I was a BB S&T intern last summer. Honestly, there isn’t much you can do to be helpful on the desk since making trades and talking to clients is illegal for interns. Knowing excel shortcuts and VBA might be useful I guess, but tbh the projects they give you in S&T are mostly bullshit and don’t require much time to complete. The most I ever did was program in VBA, and even then that was when I was on an exotic derivative trading desk. I would say to stand out as an intern just focus on following markets for products you are interested in, ask good questions to people on the desk, spend time shawdowing sales people and traders, and overall just have a positive attitude/show interest. Really spend some time networking with different desks because each desk has it’s own “culture” and at the end of the day your return offer will largely depend on if you’re a good fit, especially in sales.
Thanks for the input! I’ll be on an equities desk if that changes things?
At a BB (GS/MS/JPM) in S&T last summer and my friends on equities desks, especially trading, used python extensively for projects. Less necessary for sales. So coding wouldn't be required, but it would definitely expand the number of desks you could excel on.
absolutely need to be strong in python...not just theory...but you need to to able to take data from a variety of sources (SQL database or XLM file) load it into a dataframe, use python libraries to either transform the data, or machine learning libraries to analyze it,...then graph the results and analyze visually with another python library and then export the results to both an XML file and back to an SQL database.
This is the bare minimum of skills you'll need to be able to do...all with python. Then be able to do the same with Excel VBA
With all due respect, this is the biggest load of horeshit I have heard. At a prop shop? Maybe. For BB s&t this is completely wrong, spoken as a former s&t intern who got a FT offer. The other poster is correct. Do your projects well, follow the markets, ask good questions, and most importantly - meet everyone on the desk. That’s it.
Stop trying to flex on impressionable kids with inaccurate information.
depends on the bank/desk. my desk asks our summer interns to do a variety small projects, usually in excel, in addition to the usual get-to-know-you type stuff...but one intern took his project and turned it into a python program that the desk found useful and continues to use.
Having more skills only helps you. In trading, you are expected to constantly learn and evolve...and while most desks won't require interns know how to code...in some cases, it absolutely helps.
Literally in the same boat. How difficult would it be to get an ib internship in 2021 summer? How should I approach this or what can I do from today.
I assume you're a sophomore if you're thinking about going from and S&T internship to IB internship. I did S&T at a BB my junior summer and for reference some kids in my intern class managed to get FT returns to IB internally. However, they seemed to have been networking internally with the IB folks/coordinating with HR since the beginning of the summer. I would say ask HR/alum contacts that work in IB at your bank if you can come back next summer in IB (not unheard of I've seen it happen) or just keep sharp on your technicals and recruit during the IB SA 2021 cycle.
.
Deleted
I guess it varies by bank but the need for programming knowledge is overblown. I would say like 50% of my class didn’t program (myself included). It’ll be necessary in the future but not a requirement for the internship.
The other thing I would say is just to be confident and learn how to read people. Know when to approach someone and ask a question, and be confident about it. Also follow up with those you’ve asked questions.
The other thing I would say is to not overwhelm the desk with your presence. You should ask questions and interact with them but don’t feel the need to breathe down their necks 24-7. Take some time to read, work on projects, develop good questions and get a better understanding of the product.
Lastly, you’ll probably have to do a stock pitch or something similar during each rotation. You should ALWAYS run the pitch by people on the desk and get some feedback. It’ll usually be harder to get feedback from senior people but analysts and associates are gold. Not only will this help you have a more solid pitch, but you also get a feel for the questions you’ll get, as well as holes that your idea might have.
Work hard, pay attention, ask good questions, and enjoy the experience. Also, don’t be afraid to ask questions that are not related to the desk product. Many people enjoy talking about themselves, their career, and like giving advice. That’s the best way to connect with someone IMO.
Good luck.
Pulling this from another thread I commented In - also a heads up a quick search will pull up this same question about a handful of time, with it being answered about 3 times in the past few months. Reason I say that is to tie it into the internship - always make sure to google something and find articles before you ask someone on the desk.
Anyways, “ keep up with the markets - if your school offers Bloomberg terminals check that out 2-3 times a week alongside daily WSJ / Financial Times etc.
What I wish I'd had going into the internship (still received full time offer but would've been nice to have going in) is brush up on VBA, Python, advanced excel topics e.g pivot tables, index match / vlookup I was proficient in excel and had experience in R prior to my internship but really wish I'd known Python before going in - during the summer I asked my desks for some basic / surface level side projects that could help me get my feet wet in Python and they were happy to hand me some cool research ideas to learn the language.
Basic primers on desks is helpful too as soon as you find out your placement. Keeps you more up to speed and able to ask more credible questions when you hit the desk instead of something simple like how to price a bond.
Research the types of roles available...I told HR I was interested in structuring / research (both publication and desk strategy research) and I got placed on desks in those roles, and honestly the teams loved seeing my personal interest in those types of roles specifically - feedback was I was a "good fit" for those types of seats.”
Biggest thing you can do - don't make my life any fucking harder than it already is. If a phone is ringing pick it up, if I ask you to spread a comp for me be ready to do it on spot, if I need a powerpoint with commentary on it be able to do that concisely without much guidance. Remember as a S&T intern your job is to make everyone else's lives easier, so make sure you're doing that. Also for the love of god KNOW PRODUCT. Study the desks you're rotating on before you start on them.
Echoing what everyone else said but
Be someone people want to work with (good attitude, friendly, competent ex: learn your product)
Produce the maximum amount of output for the resources (time) of the rest of the desk you consume.
Ask questions at the right time (after hours usually)
Don't think you are god's gift to the earth.
Shop up early. Worth more than staying late when everyone else has left imo
S&T internships in my mind are the hardest because there is very little tangible work through which you can try to make a good impression as you can’t talk to clients or trade. As someone else mentioned, the “projects” you are given are complete bs and there is little to no value in those tasks unlike in IBD or ER (yes I realize aligning logos isn’t exactly creating value but it does serve a purpose). The types of projects we give out are things like “this is today’s trade idea, build me three graphs for a sales desk comment and explain them to me” or building expected earnings charts so as to compare earnings results immediately. Sometimes one of the seniors will make you pitch him a certain company as a long or short (sometimes against whatever our ER’s recommendation is) to see how you’d go about it independently.
Python/Coding knowledge for an internship is overkill imho. Yes the basics, as someone above said, should be known but that’s about it. I’m surprised no one’s said it yet but I’m much more interested in knowing my interns can navigate Factset and Bloomberg efficiently and can pull data to fit a particular scenario than them being python wiz kids.
As far as “desk manners” are concerned I’d give you the following tips: be all hands on deck/head on a swivel before market open and until 1:30 hours after that, repeat when market close approaches. And by that I mean don’t go bother people/ask questions, just sit there, take notes on what you hear/see and pay attention.
During the middle of the day definitely try to bond a bit with people. Just be likable, talk sports, weekend/vacation plans (obvi don’t tell everyone you’re going to get housed with the boys) and general chit chat. Biggest thing is asking people if they can explain a little about their product over coffee. If you’re lucky the seniors will take the initiative on this but it looks better if you do it. In the end, when your desk/division asks people for comments on whether you should get an offer or not you’ll want people to remember you. If you feel like you’ve socialized enough and/or there’s nothing to do then read whatever the latest pertinent research is.
If you’re rotating desks always ask what time they want you to be there at.
Best of luck!
Although you mentioned that python/coding knowledge might be overkill for an internship, almost all the traders in S&T I have talked to have sort of programming background. Would you say it is basically required if you want to come in full time as an analyst?
it may or may not be required..but it can only help you
It’s overkill for an Internship unless it is explicitly asked for in the app and reinforced in interviews. I don’t think it’s overkill if you go full time but I am skeptical about its role in S&T as we go on.
I commented about the difference between US and EU S&T in a previous post where I said that the two are very different due the languages, market regulation, investor class. So if you’re going into US S&T, coding will become a standard requirement eventually because you don’t need kids to speak three languages and know how the market regulator operates in the different countries, know investors who follow specific countries etc. everything runs on the same market, language, rules. You’ll basically have to add another way of cutting down on candidate profiles and by requiring coding knowledge it makes this a lot easier. In Europe (and I assume APAC) because you’re already looking for candidates who (among other things) can speak at least two languages fluently, your candidate base is already much more limited and so I’d say it’s more of a “nice to have” for now.
Having said that, becoming proficient certainly helps
.
Also, start reading zerohedge.com Subscribe to their daily newsletter and read all the posts. You may disagree with a lot of their content, but they are often the first to report on certain stories that have huge significance. You must learn how to filter out the signal from the noise...and the only way to do that is to read every day.
Besides zerohedge.com & WSJ what other rates specific news source would you suggest?
I think my personality fits great in S&t but I worry about the decline in the industry. Would you still go S&T if you were just starting your career? I think I would love S&t, I just don't want to make a short sighted decision.
S&T is not dying or going away...the only question is...would you excel at it?
There is no room for average performers in S&T...they all get fired. So just make an honest assessment about yourself. If you would excel, than go for it.
Worked in BB S&T on fixed income desks.
I personally didn't need to use any technical program, although knowledge of Bloomberg in excel was useful for some of my projects. VBA is also potentially useful but not necessary.
I had friends on equities desks that used python extensively, so certainly if you are gunning for an equity desk, try to be proficient with it.
Other general tips: - S&T is a networking game during the day. Make sure that you spend adequate time with everyone on your desk or related desks (e.g. if you're on FX trading, make sure you sit with those in FX and EM sales) by shadowing and getting coffee. Analysts are great for initial coffee chats but don't be afraid to ask MDs. I got dinner with an MD one night and that was a great way to know him outside of the work context. This is so important - I knew a few individuals that gave excellent presentations but didn't get return offers because they didn't network enough. Work on your projects after market hours. - Shadowing is also a great time to get help on your project. Analysts are very often willing to help you. Always make sure you get someone to look at your finished product before presenting. - Always know what is going on in the markets and have some sort of opinion or insight. - Avoid bothering people during market close and market open unless you explicitly set up a time to shadow with them. - You may also be situated away from your actual group and near another group. Be sure to meet with those people as well. Don't forget names (write them down if you have to). - Don't expect to add value at all of the desks, but look for opportunities when appropriate. Writing up obscure news in the morning or summarizing pertinent research articles is one way. You can also help out with some powerpoints/small work, especially if it a smaller desk with fewer analysts. Make sure to ask for work, but not excessively. It is more important that you focus on having strong trade pitches and projects. - Remember your job, since you can't interact with clients, is to learn as much as possible. Be sure to take comprehensive and legible notes so that you don't have to ask something twice. Always prepare questions before shadowing someone. Show an eagnerness to learn and intellectual curiosity.
Could you give some examples of the projects you did for fixed income desk? Thanks : )
Accusantium veritatis optio omnis et dignissimos. Quisquam itaque qui ab cumque voluptates recusandae. Velit sit est expedita placeat molestiae unde. Ea quae accusamus nulla aut aliquam odit.
Praesentium temporibus occaecati quam est quis quidem at. Velit voluptatem ut autem at dolorum fugit id vitae. Est ratione asperiores molestias minus nesciunt. Corporis ipsam quod est doloribus. Voluptatem expedita distinctio laboriosam nihil inventore. Quibusdam ut velit velit quia repellat impedit praesentium facere. Minima aut placeat quia et quis iure.
Atque sed ullam corporis architecto perspiciatis tenetur quasi. Eos asperiores tempora quam. Perferendis occaecati unde autem maiores dolor est eius. Adipisci eveniet nisi iure eaque rerum ut porro. Rem aut voluptate non in accusamus voluptas voluptatem. Omnis alias est voluptatum iste autem.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Voluptatibus harum aspernatur animi adipisci sapiente esse voluptas laborum. Nulla ex maiores omnis et officia. Suscipit aspernatur quam quas rem quos. Voluptates autem assumenda unde dolorem ea occaecati quae.
Inventore dolorem aut perferendis corporis aperiam. Voluptate sunt et nihil voluptatem officia sapiente. Ullam harum quisquam iste et et voluptatem. Dolore et aliquid odio non quidem. Nesciunt voluptatem quaerat molestiae vitae nulla accusantium.
Sunt consectetur vitae perferendis et quia autem. Expedita quibusdam sed aliquid ratione reiciendis.
Sit voluptatibus omnis doloribus reiciendis et. Dolor explicabo autem numquam non. Debitis quo officiis voluptatum id fugiat.