How to Overcome Class Barriers

Its sad that I even have to make this post but I think that I speak for quite a few people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds - particularly in the UK - when I say that breaking into IB or MC whilst being anything other than upper middle class can be hugely demoralising whether class actually plays a large role or not. It straight up makes me want to give up sometimes. The idea that you're behind everyone else because you don't speak the queens english or go to the same ski resort as someone you're attempting to network with is a daunting thought. I myself come from a lower middle class class background, went to the shittiest fucking state school ever and have a relatively mild Geordie accent (which is the thing that I find the most degrading: imagine an investment banker with a Geordie accent - yikes). I do have an offer from one target university so far (UCL) which gives me some confidence but I feel as though when I get there and I'm surrounded by all these privately educated students who look down on me because I'm a northener (and therefore sub-human) it will be hard to get through.

I was wondering if anyone has any experiences to share of how they overcame a similar set of obstacles as I've never really seen anyone give any practical advice with regards to them. Do you feel that it was even that large of a barrier to overcome in the end? Am I just being a whiny little bitch (probably)? Cheers.

(also this post is not meant as an attack on those who are upper class)

 
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I'm from a similar background to you. Went to a target on a scholarship but made it to IB in the end. I work for a solid EB in London now.

It will be a culture shock at first, most of your privately educated coursemates will have dreamed of Investment Banking since they were 12 and so don't worry if you feel behind them initially. My tips would be to join programs like SEO London, Rare Recruitment and UpReach etc, they're all charities aimed at levelling the playing field. I'd recommend also reading up on Spring Weeks and applying as soon as your start at Uni.

But my main point is this - you need to find a way to see those types of upper middle class not as your enemy. If you do break into IB, you'll be working alongside them. Try not to be the individual who moans about class or background at interviews, Banks will want to hire you for you because they think you'll add value and you'll be fun to work with, not for your background. I don't know how to ski or play golf, and it's not held me back. I'm sure you have plenty of positives about yourself to show off about on your resume.

Best of luck

 

You didn’t sound too much like that but I wanted to make it clear because I’ve been there too. Sat in interviews and said you should hire me because I’ve achieved the same as the other candidates but I started from the bottom. Politely, no one really cares - if you’re a smart, interesting individual, you seem fun to talk to and you put in the effort with technicals - there’s no reason why they wouldn’t hire you. Background shouldn’t matter too much, the charities and networking will help get your foot in the door.

 

Very much so, pretty much everyone in a position of power has a RP accent. Northern accents are generally "looked down upon" and are also hilarious, especially Scouse.

 

At first I couldn’t think of anything in the us like that, but on second thought I’m sure Ebonics is judged pretty harshly, as well as maybe Southern accents, I also don’t know enough of the nyc accents to know if it happens there too

Gun rights activist
 

Sounds rough.

One thing that will help you overcome this beyond all else is mindset. Don't think of yourself as an outsider or someone who is lacking because they were not brought up the same. Stop with the comparisons, there are tons of people who came from underprivileged or atypical backgrounds you will meet over the next few years.

Take ownership of your background, it's what makes you unique and adds diversity & value to any workplace you choose to enter. It is up to you to to nurture these differences and help yourself stand out rather than caving into the bullshit.

Just my two cents

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A lot of it really is in the mindset.

It's worrying though that you have this attitude before you've even started university. Presumably you're still at school/college in the North, so your fears at the moment are purely speculation. Why don't you wait until you start university and see what the people are actually like rather than going into the whole experience with a chip already on your shoulder.

I've noticed from studying in the North that the Northerners actually judged the Southerners for their accents far more than the other way around. While there are always going to be dickheads, any reasonable person in the South won't care about your accent.

(Also bear in mind that not everyone with an RP accent is middle/upper class or wealthy! Some people just pick it up from their environment)

 

but do definitely adapt to their world, you don’t decide the rules but you gotta play ball, don’t hate them, fake it til you make it and you are completely indistinguishable from the cookie cutter upper middle class people, lose your accent etc

 

Change your f**king accent mate. You’ve got the right environment around yOh. If the kids from Pakistan / India who break into ib in London can learn to speak English in a polished accent when their own native language is so different, you can probably do too....don’t be a cry baby and mould yourself into ur surroundings matter. Accents matter a lot

 

I understand what you are saying. Was in a similar situation in US, but keep your head up and know that you will work harder than any of them because it means so much more to you. Use it as a piece of motivation and you will exceed even your own dreams. It's a long road so don't let a couple hiccups discourage you.

Best of luck mate.

 

If it can make you feel any better, it's possible to find some in the field that went from lower class to IB and they are generally sympathetic towards people who go through the same. It just takes time to find them.

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.
 

First of all, don't spend time thinking about all of the reasons that you're at a disadvantage relative to the rick kids. If you think about it enough, you'll start to believe that it's true and if it's true, it's an excuse not to make it. I don't know how exactly it works in England, but as someone who was in a similar situation in the U.S., it turns out not to be that big of an obstacle in the end.

These kids will have more connections than you, be more comfortable in the social settings that you'll get put into during recruiting, and feel (initially) that they belong more than you. The main way to make up for all of this is to be more competent than them. If you walk into interviews knowing that there isn't a technical you could conceivably be asked that you won't ace, you're going to feel a lot more at ease, a lot more like you belong more than the silver spoon in their ass kids.

Accent doesn't matter so long as you are cognizant of not mispronouncing words while you interview. My Irish/Italian-American white trash accent results me in pronouncing things like "I'm going to" as "I'mma" or "what are you saying?" as "Whadda ya sayin" and a bunch of other shit that is incorrect. I talk like that at the office now (unless I'm talking in front of clients), but I sure as shit didn't when I interviewed.

Honestly, having a tougher background and being able t weave a logical story, dispassionately and w/out any self-pity, as to why your specific background will translate into you having attributes that other applicants w/ easier backgrounds didn't will bode well for yo. For the job I'm at now, my last interview was w/ the head of the IBD and his last question was along the lines of "what makes you different from the other 100 kids interviewing today?" I spun a story (which I think happens to be true) about how working construction full-time for two years after high school, grinding at a JUCO for two years before transferring to a semi-target, and working and paying my own way through college taught me lessons about work ethic, managing adversity, and fully capitalizing on opportunities that the other kids interviewing probably hadn't learned. I don't know if this is specifically why I got the job, but he nodded and said "That's a great story...We'll find a spot for you."

People have a way of ending up exactly where they should if they're good enough and work hard enough. As for the kids who seemingly have been gifted a great career because of whose kid they are, to quote Rand, "Don't envy a worthless heir; his wealth is not yours and you would have done no better with it."

 

I think class is something that exists only in the UK. Unfortnuately there are some small-minded, shrill-voiced, horse-faced, semi-inbred, 'upper' classes in IB/ MC.

If they are at UCL it is because they got rejected by Oxbridge.

Go to Imperial or LSE instead. Its full of mute Asians

 
Intern in PropTrad:
I think class is something that exists only in the UK.
While Americans try to ignore class, it's still very much present. For a breakdown Paul Fussell's "Class: A Guide Through the American Status System" provides a good breakdown even if it's a bit tongue in cheek and a bit outdated now.
 

You guys need to really stop this self victimisation attitude, it just doesn't help and won't get you anywhere.

I am a foreigner, did my summer internship in the UK, don't have a british accent, didn't have any friend in the UK. Didn't apply through all these diversity programs because i didnt even know they existed.

Focus on delivering good work, and THEN go to network, so you'll be able to talk about your achievements / work, rather then the latest ski trip that frankly no one cares about. You give way too much credit to all these offtopic "connections" that upper kids are supposedly having.

I like diving, i had an intern spend half his time telling my about diving, and i really enjoyed discussing that, but at the end of the day i needed him to get some work done that he didnt really do that well. I pushed to give an offer to the guy that wasn't wasting my time, focused on finding new ways to help us proactively, had good attitude and delivered a good work. I didn't really have any passion or life experience in common with him. And we are just getting to know each other now that he joined full time, but i know that he delivers and that's what matters huh.

Stop always thinking that you are not achieving things because of your background, you might just not be good enough. (I know shocking ?) So go back and grind harder. These days you can't even tell a kid that he just needs to step up his game because of all the drama that can follow if you phrase it the wrong way.

Think of it this way : i am a VP, i want to get more responsibility to get paid more, i am still doing reasonable amount of work where i am not really learning anything anymore that i picked up when i became my managers junior 3 years ago, we are stretched and i am tired of having to do this stuff because it is slowing down my career progression. My manager needs me to be able to step up before he can step up himself. Who do you think i am hiring ? The polished dude from Eton that keeps telling me about his golf skills, or the guy with shitty accent that make it clear he wants to pick up all my grunt work with a smile while at the same time trying to learn as much as he can to get up the value added chain, and thus free up my time so i can go up too.

 

To be clear, your sentiment in the last paragraph essentially amounts to explaining why you'd like to hire someone like yourself--an unconnected, hungry worker. That exact sentiment is why people generally look to hire people that are like themselves. The guys from Eton are likely to hire people who come from more privileged backgrounds for the same reason you're looking to hire people who come from less privileged ones. This is one of the reasons diversity programs exist for entry level hires. Most people hire others like themselves, so if you can get a wider array of people into the firm at the entry level, you may be able to perpetuate that as those juniors become more senior. At least, that's the theory.

Of course, you're just now coming up on the point in your career where having some connections would help you immensely. At some point (the director level) you have to bring in business yourself. I wish you the very best of luck in that. It's definitely tougher without connections. I've seen MDs who came up the hard way and networked their asses off and been very successful without a preexisting network, but it's definitely a lot harder than the alternative. Think of it this way--those guys who went to Eton and Oxbridge have a 20-year head start in building a network of potentially useful business contacts. That's not insurmountable, but it's one hell of an advantage. If you add to that the network their parents bring to the table, you're facing even longer odds.

That said, privilege breeds complacency and (in many cases) laziness. As a result, you can certainly outwork those guys. If that's the hand that you're dealt, then I think the best thing to do is keep your head down, do good work, and ingratiate yourself to your MD so that he essentially gifts you a client or two. I have a lot of friends who struggled between the VP and Director ranks because they couldn't bring in a deal. That's where having some connections really help. In the event you don't have those connections but your MDs really like you, they can choose to pull you in and give you credit for deals that you may have had nothing to do with. I've seen that happen too.

In any case, there are many ways to make MD. You don't have to come from any particular background, so just make the best of whatever natural endowments you were given

 

Hey, interesting angle, I work in trading so connections are largely irrelevant for bringing clients but i get your point for IBD. That being said we are talking about entry level jobs here. My point is the number of people who are both very good and connected is not as high as people think, a lot of summer interns are quite "meh". And the number of people who have connections so strong that they can get away with being mediocre is even lower (like maybe 2 per class).

These hiring processes are becoming increasingly opaque and confusing for everyone. And one of the reasons for that is snowflake generation constantly looking for random reasons to explain their shortcomings and lawsuits. You just can't tell someone he is just not good enough and give honest feedback, you need to find some random reason that fits in the legal/HR/Compliance approved boxes, especially if it's a woman/diversity, or avoid giving a reason altogether and just let them guess. This fuels such a mismatch between expectations and reality that ends up increasing the anger and resentment even more, but is unfortunately the way we are heading in this confrontational lose-lose lawyer-friendly environment. It's actually quite sad, but the only people you can give proper feedback to are white dudes, people from your ethnic background, or those where you've built enough trust that you know he/she is not going to report you to HR and create a mess because they "feel" they know better.

So please please to OP, just work hard and be a genuinely nice guy, drop the chip on the shoulder vibe, try to get honest feedback, (you might still get bullshit), and focus on progressing. Life is unfair yes, but it's not as bad as you think it is, focus on what you can control, you'll be more successful and happier.

 

You're not alone at all--I empathize with you.

I graduated from a uni known for attracting *very *wealthy students, and coming from a working-class family (dad's a cashier, mom's a clerk), the realization of class disparity impacted my perspective on meritocracy very quickly. For slight context, I had to work part-time for 25-30 hours a week to pay for college/rent completely on my ow, time I wished I could allocate to more-productive pursuits (reading, networking, internship hunting). Seeing others doing the fun shit you cited as well as get career-related help from family definitely did a number of my confidence. Of course, they didn't choose to have their wealth so I don't spite them, but inequality of opps still discouraging nonetheless.

What got me through the insecurity was the blunt recognition that I was pursuing this path to provide a better life for my parents. I was sincerely grateful for the opportunity they provided me, and I wanted to give back everything I can to them. Whenever the going got tough, I reminded myself of thatunderlying motivation . If your underlying motivation has enough significance to you, then it should drive you to keep grinding despite the inequality you may see.

TL;DR: Recognize that the inequality exists and appreciate your unique perspective, but face the reality that life isn't fair. Like you say, bitching gets you nowhere. Truly know why you're pursuing banking and, if your motivation is worth the hardship/sacrifice, grind it out.

 

Similar background to yourself and have definitely experienced first hand, some of the snobbery and arrogance surrounding class in the UK. That said, I think there era we live in now makes it far easier for those from 'disadvantaged' to succeed, given all these new diversity and equality initiatives; imagine how hard our parents had it, and before that our grandparents?

At the end of the day you can only play the cards you were dealt, and do as much as you can with those to succeed. See it as a way to differentiate and stand out, not as a barrier to entry.

 

I wouldn't say I have "broken" into investment banking because I have only secured an internship yet. I grew up middle class before my family's financial situation turned into hell. During high school, I was a student that couldn't keep my mind focused on school and only got by because I was smarter than most people at my high school. My family situation was something I would not wish on anyone, my self confidence was abosutely terrible, and I never felt like I had a support system. When I applied to college, I applied somewhere hundreds of miles away just because I wanted to get the hell out of where I was. I got accepted into the first place I applied to and made a promise to myself to use this as an opportunity to reinvent myself. After a year, I was able to transfer to a target and eventually get a job in investment banking. Although I would never wish my unfortunate past on anyone, I take pride in the struggles I went through because I believe most people wouldn't have been able to make it as far as I have. I believe in myself and feel like I have strong willpower and can thrive in difficult situations. When I try to explain this to some people in investment banking, they have no idea what I'm talking about and I can't really blame them. A lot of people I met have lived very cushy lifes since they were born.

If I say, "yeah my family situation was very bad", the best response I'll get is, "I'm sorry that happened." Are they really sorry? I'm sure they wouldn't wish anything bad on anyone, but do you think a trust fund baby can really grapple with the constant anxiety caused by someone's parents poor financial situation. I would be up at night worrying about what they are spending money on and if they are spending it wisely. For the rich, they can never begin to understand such a feeling.

Numerous studies will show that people are naturally attracted to people who are similar to them (whether that be wealth, experiences, race, etc.). As a result, it will always be an uphill for low income people to break into investment banking. Is there anything on the bright side? No. There is nothing that will help benefit low income people to help break into investment banking. All of the diversity events at investment banks are tailored to skin color and not diversity of experiences. As a result, you have the richest minorities breaking into investment banking whlie the poor continously get tossed to the side. This may be a win for the diversity champions but is frankly disgusting and sad.

 

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