How Would You Rank Undergraduate Business Schools?

timetogetserious's picture
Rank: King Kong | 1,428

The last Bloomberg rankings of undergrad business schools (published in 2016) were extremely flawed and no real outlet has attempted to rank undergrad business schools since then so I was wondering what the consensus was on WSO. (keep in mind these are only ug business schools so for example, harvard is not eligible for this list)

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-best-under...
My opinion

  1. Upenn (Wharton)
  2. Cornell (Dyson)
  3. Georgetown (McDonough)
  4. Michigan (Ross)
  5. UVA (McIntire)
  6. NYU (Stern)
  7. WUSL (Olin)
  8. Berkeley (Haas)
  9. UNC (Kenan-Flagler)
  10. Boston College (Carroll)
  11. Notre Dame (Mendoza)
  12. Villanova
  13. Texas Austin (McCombs)
  14. Indiana (Kelley)
  15. Emory (Goizueta)
Region: 
United States - Midwest
United States - South
United States - Northeast
United States - Northeast
United States - West

Comments (85)

Jul 8, 2017

For US recruitment put Ivey on the list as well.

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Jul 8, 2017

Use poets quants MBA full-time ranking. Only exception are Notre Dame and SMU type of strong undergrad programs

M7 MBA, iBanking. Top MSF grad. AntiTNA. Truth is hard to hear! But... :
DickFuld: Yeah....most of these people give terrible advice.:
Best Response
Jul 8, 2017

depends what we are talking about - if just fin-nance would say

  1. penn
  2. notre dame/michigan/uva/nyu
  3. cornell/berkeley
  4. ut austin/georgetown/BC/emory

rest are irrelevant imo

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Jul 9, 2017

Ross

UVA

Berkeley/Stanford

Dartmouth

Dartmouth smokes placement because it's a stronger network and they have winter/spring internships. Downside it's in the middle of no where.

The others are based on finance ranking + undergrad experience. Fuck going to Wharton just because it's Wharton. I'd rather go to Ross for Greek life and Big 10 sports

Jul 20, 2017
HugLife:

Ross

UVA

Berkeley/Stanford

Dartmouth

Dartmouth smokes placement because it's a stronger network and they have winter/spring internships. Downside it's in the middle of no where.

The others are based on finance ranking + undergrad experience. Fuck going to Wharton just because it's Wharton. I'd rather go to Ross for Greek life and Big 10 sports

I believe the OP is referring to undergrad business schools specifically.

Jul 9, 2017

T1: Wharton
T2: Cornell, Stern
T3: Haas, Ross, McIntire, McDonough
T4: Mendoza, Marshall, Kenan-Flager, Goizueta

no orders within tiers

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Jul 20, 2017

Don't want to open Pandora's box, but I'll just rattle off a FEW undergrad business programs that stick out due to reputation and/or experiences I've had with people from those schools. This is NOT an ALL-INCLUSIVE list... I am just stating names I am familiar with through my own experiences.

In no particular order: UT Austin, Georgetown, Wharton, Notre Dame, Michigan, NYU, UVA, UNC, Boston College, IU

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Jul 20, 2017

I only about IU and Emory, so ill give you info on that. Emory grads tend to be recruited by companies in the south and Charolette. IU has a great IB program, and you'll be almost guaranteed a job, a lot of which are in the easy coast, if you are accepted into the IB workshop which is very competitive.

Jul 20, 2017

BC is in top 5, USC has great alumni.

Jul 20, 2017

@"futureinIB" I've heard that USC has a huge number of alumni in socal, but not as much in nyc. is that true?

Jul 20, 2017

1. Emory
2. USC
3. IU Bloomington, Kelly
4. Boston College
5. Northeastern
6. Fordham

Jul 20, 2017

Kelley is not better than BC.

Jul 20, 2017

kelley is placing a lot of kids every year into IB these days

Jul 20, 2017

1. Emory & USC
2. IU Bloomington Kelly
3. Boston College
4. Fordham
5. Northeastern

Jul 20, 2017

Is it true that it's hard for USC grads to get east coast placement?

Jul 20, 2017

At the NYC office of the BB bank I work at, it's probably something like:
BC
IU / Emory
USC
Fordham / Northeastern

Just one data point to consider.

Jul 20, 2017

it has no my school so i dont give a damn

Jul 20, 2017

Top employers for schools #1-#4 - meaning the top 3 destinations in terms of quantity of graduates going there...

Mendoza (ND) - Deloitte, KPMG, Ernst & Young
McIntire (UVA) - PricewaterhouseCoopers, Ernst & Young, KPMG
Dyson (Cornell) - Ernst & Young, Citigroup, JP Morgan Chase
Wharton (Penn) - Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, Morgan Stanley

Check out Wharton vs the rest... its a joke that they are not #1.

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Jul 20, 2017
ocho:

Top employers for schools #1-#4 - meaning the top 3 destinations in terms of quantity of graduates going there...

Mendoza (ND) - Deloitte, KPMG, Ernst & Young
McIntire (UVA) - PricewaterhouseCoopers, Ernst & Young, KPMG
Dyson (Cornell) - Ernst & Young, Citigroup, JP Morgan Chase
Wharton (Penn) - Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, Morgan Stanley

Check out Wharton vs the rest... its a joke that they are not #1.

goldman sachs is toxic... cmon

Jul 20, 2017
ocho:

Top employers for schools #1-#4 - meaning the top 3 destinations in terms of quantity of graduates going there...

Mendoza (ND) - Deloitte, KPMG, Ernst & Young
McIntire (UVA) - PricewaterhouseCoopers, Ernst & Young, KPMG
Dyson (Cornell) - Ernst & Young, Citigroup, JP Morgan Chase
Wharton (Penn) - Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, Morgan Stanley

Check out Wharton vs the rest... its a joke that they are not #1.

^Just a comment, finance is not the only subject a business school teaches. And not every student wants to do banking.

Wharton is a great business school but too narrow in focus for my tastes. All the schools on here are great.

Jul 20, 2017

found it, nvm

Jul 20, 2017

SECfinance you may be right about finance not being the end all be all, but I don't think a bunch of Big 4 placements screams diversity regarding job opportunities.

Jul 20, 2017
BigBucks:

SECfinance you may be right about finance not being the end all be all, but I don't think a bunch of Big 4 placements screams diversity regarding job opportunities.

To be fair, Big 4 has accounting, consulting, and advisory work.

Jul 20, 2017

businessweek ranking is a joke.

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Jul 20, 2017

The two schools I recently turned down for a scholarship at a lesser school are now top 15 and top 25 respectively, please tell me I don't end up regretting this decision..

Jul 20, 2017

SECIB,

USNWR is a much better indicator of "general prestige" (although with some caveats), and that is what you want to focus on. ND > Wharton? Not so much.

Jul 20, 2017

B.S rankings. Wharton is in a league of its own when it comes to undergrad business schools. Where the hell is MIT?

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Jul 20, 2017

I think in order to be qualified for the ranking the bschool must reach 40% survey response rate from students so maybe that's the reason why MIT is not on the ranking this year.

Jul 20, 2017
Ghosh:

B.S rankings. Wharton is in a league of its own when it comes to undergrad business schools. Where the hell is MIT?

This sums up my thoughts.

Jul 20, 2017

These rankings exist only to sell magazines and advertising. They are utterly worthless.

Jul 20, 2017

I agree with @"TNA", but remember that these USN don't necessarily rank based on IBD placement.

Jul 20, 2017

That is true. Here's the methodology:
30% student assessment survey
30% academic quality (SAT average, student-faculty ratio, average class size, internship %, hours student spend studying per week)
20% Recruiter survey
10% median salary
10% MBA feeder school score

Jul 20, 2017

Sort by median salary and you get something much closer to expectation (or for the purposes of people on this forum, IBD placement).

1. Univ. of Virginia (McIntire) $70,000
1. Univ. of Pennsylvania (Wharton) $70,000
1. Carnegie Mellon (Tepper) $70,000
4. Cornell (Dyson) $65,000
4. Univ. of Michigan (Ross) $65,000
6. Georgetown Univ. (McDonough) $64,500
7. New York Univ. (Stern) $64,000
8. Washington Univ. (Olin) $62,500
9. Univ. of California, Berkeley (Haas) $62,000
10. Emory (Goizueta) $60,000
10. Univ. of North Carolina (Kenan-Flagler) $60,000
10. Binghamton Univ. $60,000
13. Notre Dame (Mendoza) $58,000
14. Univ. of Texas at Austin (McCombs) $58,000
15. William and Mary (Mason) $58,000

Jul 20, 2017

Surprised to see Tepper so high. Any thoughts?

Jul 20, 2017

as a bing alum, let me tell you the truth. i shoulda went to NYU Stern or Cornell

Jul 20, 2017
Jul 20, 2017

these rankings are bs, i don't go to carnegie, in fact i don't like the school in general, but they have amazing recruiting, firmwide internships with tons of fortune 100 firms, they don't even accept transfer students because nobody ever transfers out. it def deserves to be higher than #22. wasn't nyu stern #2 or 3 on US news and ranking? more recruiters than anywhere, stellar education for undergrad+mba, 9 is kind've low.

and BC at number 14 when carnegie's 22? what the hell are they basing this on? They gave Carnegie a C for recruiting last year...go on their website and there's a huge alumni network and lists of recruiters. BC is more alumni-based and not a lot of firmwide picks, lots of finance/ops bs, i'm not sure about top 20, but def a good school regardless of its ranking.

Jul 20, 2017

Meh, I would think UT/UNC/UCB need to be higher than BYU.

And Norte Dame? Is there really that much recruiting there?

Jul 20, 2017

a little surprised wisconsin is so low, some rankings have them at 13

Jul 20, 2017

what is wrong with these people? Their rankings are just a desperate cry for attention because no credible ranking could flucuate that much from year to year. Honestly, any ranking that has MIT/Berkley as 9&11 should not be taken seriously. Notre Dame # 3? Give me a break. Someone should really get fired over there for coming up with these dumb ranking. BYU/NYU/EMORY(????????????)/Nortre Dame before MIT huh?

Jul 20, 2017

These rankings are really bad. Damn, university of florida is way better than southern methodist or bentley or those other ones that are high up.

Jul 20, 2017

Honestly, no one gives a shit about these rankings. I would be surprised if more than 30% of people involved in interviewing/resume screening are aware of the rankings... also probably the most obvious sign of a weak resume or insecurity is someone talking about their UG b-school ranking.

Jul 20, 2017

These only matter to high school seniors applying to college and the Dean's of the schools. Is Emory even a target school?

Jul 20, 2017

The detailed breakdown of how each school got ranked can be found here:

http://bwnt.businessweek.com/interactive_reports/u...
The little paragraph at the top describes why/how certain leaps in the tables were made. If someone can find the same table but for last year, that may also help in explaining the rankings.

And believe it or not, recruiters do take these rankings into account or at least know the relative position of the schools they are interviewing at on the list...

Jul 20, 2017

I don't believe that recruiters give any stock to the rankings at all. I think you're full of shit.

Jul 20, 2017

Everything is subjective on these lists. Who cares how a school is ranked. It's just another way for people to look at their peers and quantify themselves over someone else based around a trivial list. Now that you mention it, "The List" was on tonight. Take a look at that great South Park episide and then bring this up. Just proves how trivial this kind of shit is.

Jul 20, 2017

Meehgs,

What bank do you work at and how do you know they take into account the rankings? From my experience it's basically banks like to recruit schools people in the bank attended. Rankings like this mean jack sh*t. Really. Think of all the Iveys without BBA programs. Also, these are a total joke. US News & World Report is much more reliable, and their top three (there is a tie for third), rank 1, 6, 9, 11 on this list. I would also like to see how UVA/Michigan/Cal are ranked so differently, when they tend to be very similar. And BYU at 7 is a complete joke.. and Emory that high - please.

Jul 20, 2017
Buck2210:

Meehgs,

What bank do you work at and how do you know they take into account the rankings? From my experience it's basically banks like to recruit schools people in the bank attended. Rankings like this mean jack sh*t. Really. Think of all the Iveys without BBA programs. Also, these are a total joke. US News & World Report is much more reliable, and their top three (there is a tie for third), rank 1, 6, 9, 11 on this list. I would also like to see how UVA/Michigan/Cal are ranked so differently, when they tend to be very similar. And BYU at 7 is a complete joke.. and Emory that high - please.

Hey Buck, I don't work anywhere yet :-) Still in college but with SA offers. I do know that the head of my school's recruitment team at a top BB mentioned how my major had received a pretty good ranking last year and we were expected to move higher this year (which we did - this was before the rankings were released). It was also mentioned in another superday I had by an interviewer not from my school. Granted, the talk was more general (so how does your program compare to others? Have you looked at rankings? How would you say it prepares you for this type of work?). Hope that helps...

Jul 20, 2017

I think somebodies panties are in a riff because their school didn't get ranked high enough. These rankings aren't based on placement to BB banks or top PE firms. For instance BYU is consistently in the top 3 for their accounting program and has a pipeline of students going to the Big 4 firms. Although not a target for many banks, many students do get jobs in Investment Banking. Additionally, this is a business school ranking for undergraduate programs, which means all the schools that don't have an undergraduate business program such as Harvard and Duke aren't competing with them in the rankings

Jul 20, 2017

The "A+" bucket of schools is a better list.

Jul 20, 2017

Meehgs is obviously a retard... Buck seems a bit more bright.

Jul 20, 2017
b2:

Meehgs is obviously a retard... Buck seems a bit more bright.

That was unnecessary.

Jul 20, 2017

univ of Florida better than SMU and Bentley? I think Bentley is a shit school full of rich kids that couldn't get into a decent school, but it is still leaps ahead of UoF. Give me a break... There's always 1 or 2 SMU and Bentley kids in a class.

Jul 20, 2017

Krakauer, I think you may be reading the list from the bottom up... UF (is that the proper abbreviation?) was ranked 46 while SMU and Bently were ranked 23 and 30, respectively.

Jul 20, 2017

U.S. News' undergrad business ranking is based purely on surveys from deans and faculty members, of course it's gonna make a lot more sense than some journalist, who doesn't know jack about business education, trying to come up with random formulas for calculating the school's "index".

U.S. News' ranking (UPenn, MIT, Berkeley, Michigan, UNC, UVA, Texas...) makes a lot more sense in its methodology, and also in actually placing the better schools on top.

Jul 20, 2017

these rankings are a joke and we all know it. US news is far more reliable. To Krauker - the business faculty at UF tops the faculty at Bentley and SMU combined. Some of the professors here taught at places like penn and yale.

Jul 20, 2017

R U RAH RAH R U RAH RAH
HOO RAH HOO RAH RUTGERS RAH

YAY #50

im an econ major, so im not in RBS anyways

Jul 20, 2017

We dropped. RBS was ranked #32 last year by BusinessWeek.

Still, hopefully, I'll be an RBS student, when I get my decision. RBS has a better reputation than Rutgers overall, I think.

PleaseHireMe:

R U RAH RAH R U RAH RAH
HOO RAH HOO RAH RUTGERS RAH

YAY #50

im an econ major, so im not in rbs anyways

Jul 20, 2017

There's a difference between how business magazines and the U.S. News looks at business programs vs. banks. I don't think they're necessarily looking at "what the best schools for banking" are. We already know what the target schools at the major banks are. These publications are ranking probably on overall placement into finance (and that includes corporate finance - Fortune 500 and 1000, commercial banking etc.), accounting (Big 4), consulting, marketing and advertising, etc.

That's not to say there's a relatively high correlation between a great school that helps you get a great job (i.e. banking) and their corresponding ranking on lists like this. But just because everyone here happens to think banking and consulting are the top jobs an undergrad can get, therefore the most recruited schools for banking and consulting should be the highest ranked - that isn't how these reviewers think. They're looking generally - and their target market is probably the average college kid (or parents) who wants to find a decent job after school - not necessarily banking.

Jul 20, 2017

GameTheory is the only person on this thread that's posted a meaningful and thought-out response.

Everyone that goes to undergraduate business school doesn't want to be an investment banker or a management consultant.

Jul 20, 2017

I was replying to someone's post -- not commenting on the rankings.

People at A LOT OF SCHOOLS have taught at "Penn and Yale".

Jul 20, 2017

All my posts were very carefully thought out.

In all seriousness, I think too much weight is given to shit like "student-teacher ratio" or "study abroad programs" etc. The two most important factors should be intelligent students and perceived reputation. Intelligent students will eventually change the reputation of a school and that reputation is what drives recruiting. And let's be real, recruiting is the #1 reason to pick a business school.

On a tangent, it really annoys me to hear people defend schools like Bentley or UF or whatever as "actually they are great business schools because of X". The bottom line is students there on average just are not as smart- nothing, not where the professors formerly taught, not spending per student, is going to bridge that gap.

Jul 20, 2017

i agree on your last point - 100% true.

it's difficult to rank undergrad b-schools. imo, i view the top 20 as highly reputable. anything above that is subjective and not very useful.

Jul 20, 2017

It's hard to put too much stock into these rankings, but as a non-target it does suck to see your respective school so low on the list.

That said, if you think these rankings matter in the workplace, they don't unless you let them. I received 5 SA offers coming from a school in the latter-half of the 70's. During interviews I chose to bring up my school's weak ranking and describe how I felt I compensated for it. Usually the person I was interviewing with had no idea what the rankings were to begin with.

Jul 20, 2017
TheStreet86:

It's hard to put too much stock into these rankings, but as a non-target it does suck to see your respective school so low on the list.

That said, if you think these rankings matter in the workplace, they don't unless you let them. I received 5 SA offers coming from a school in the latter-half of the 70's. During interviews I chose to bring up my school's weak ranking and describe how I felt I compensated for it. Usually the person I was interviewing with had no idea what the rankings were to begin with.

This just doesn't ring true. In this economy, coming from a school 35-70, getting 5 SA offers? Unless you orally pleasured Jimmy Cayne while getting a 4.0, I just don't see it happening... especially after you display the unawareness to even bring up your school's shitty ranking.

Sorry, don't know why I am such an a**hole today... guess I'm channeling mark klein MD.

Jul 20, 2017

This is a great thread, everyone can just complain about subjective data that has little to do with banking. The targets and semi-targets have the best pipelines into banking, period. This is a subjective list ranking the undergraduate b-school overall. The rankings are worth little besides maybe a starting point for seniors in highschool. godofsmallthings, I'm sorry that you were waitlisted behind SMU and Bentley kids, keep trying I am sure your former yale professor can recommend you for a great law school.

Jul 20, 2017

For the record, I don't go to Bentley or SMU.

I agree about these rankings being futile though. Just wanted to rag on the kid hailing UoF as a superior school.

Jul 20, 2017
Krakauer:

For the record, I don't go to Bentley or SMU.

I agree about these rankings being futile though. Just wanted to rag on the kid hailing UoF as a superior school.

even at the risk of a flame war, that kid had it coming to him

Jul 20, 2017

TheStreet86, I can't open your PM. You need to put something in the subject line.

Jul 20, 2017

maybe I'm wrong. All I can say is that if you're smart enough, it doesn't matter whether you do college in some suburban place in west africa or you go to oxford or cambridge because, you will make money.

Jul 20, 2017

these rankings are nice to see and to know and they are one data point to consider on a variety of issues.

I mean what about service academies? There are tons of former cadets/midshipmen on the street and the Academies don't have undergrad business programs.

Jul 20, 2017

I don't know the stats from other schools, but at least from my b-school, around 75% of our class got placed into either finance or consulting. The rest is marketing, management, teaching, non-profit, grad-schools, and others... So I feel like looking at finance/consulting placement record is a pretty good estimate of the school's quality overall. But other schools might not have the same percentage as we do, so it I might be wrong.

Jul 20, 2017

I completely agree with GameTheory. The recruiters aren't interested in banking/mgmt consulting placements. The truth of the matter is, a school like Bentley places exceptionally well into the Big 4 and other finance and accounting positions. The majority of these kids will do their four years, get a solid position, and have what they deem to be a very successful career. Now, part of that is due to location (let's face it, there are a ton of opportunities in Boston) and other factors that don't include intelligence, but all of these things should be factored into what makes a "good" business school. Sure, you could count on one hand the number of kids Bentley sent to investment banks last year, but I don't think that would bother the recruiters at all.

Jul 20, 2017

i go to UVA's business school. No.2 my ass.

most of my friends in it (and I) hate it. Stunning professors, but curriculum is stupid.

Jul 20, 2017
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