Indiana University Undergrad
I'm still just in high school, but I plan on a career in finance. I live in Indiana, so going to IU would be very convenient for me since it would be much cheaper and I'll still get a very good financial education. Can I still break into Investment Banking coming out of a semi-target like IU?
IU's business school is very competitive to get into but if you get in it's money. From the perspective of someone from a top 5 public school I really can't imagine how the recruiting at the Ivy's could be any better. Every bank, HF or PE firm I could imagine has at least posted a job on our board and most do OCR too. Someone from HPY might come on here and flame me for being a public school pleeb but I would 100% encourage you to do IU and not take out loans.
I would consider IU's Kelley a semi-target. I worked at a MM/EB in NYC and we had a few analysts from IU. I can't speak to their placement in Chicago, but would assume it is ok as well.
Hold Up, you will only make good money and a job offer if you get into the workshop. That's why I chose NYU over IU
IU placement into IB in Chicago is pretty strong if you're in the workshop. Just check out their website and take a look at the list of where people go.
It's a good school, save yourself the loans and go in-state, although not much for sports...
How much is Kelley worth? (undergrad) (Originally Posted: 04/26/2013)
Hello, I'm an intl student, so if i decide to attend Kelley as a direct admit, i will probably chalk up at least 150k of debt in tuition alone. This is fine by me if i am able to (ideally) secure a job in the US upon graduation. Given the current state of the economy and such, it may be quite a long shot.
Simply put, Would a bschool education at Kelley be worth this 150k opposed to studying at a local (Singapore) bschool which would cost about 50k? Probably an intangible qn but, How much is Kelley "worth"?
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Depends what you want and where you want to be. If you want Singapore, the local school is probably better. If you want Wall St. or Chicago, clearly Kelley is the best option.
$150K sounds quite high and the cost of living in Bloomington isn't nearly as bad as metro areas (NYC or even Chicago).
Plus, you can get a PT job like I had throughout college (could be more difficult for int'l students, but you should be able to find something on campus if you wanted).
Given that you're an international student you should know that STERN, ROSS, McINTIRE, and all IVY LEAGUE schools offer a better shot at landing a job in banking.
Like peinvestor said, this is only if you want to work in NYC. Try to get into those schools first.
In fairness, Kelley is much, much cheaper than those others. Not saying he'd have a better shot, but if he got into the IB workshop, he could save quite a bit of money. I haven't checked in some time, but when I went to IU, it was probably $10-15K cheaper in tuition/fees per year alone. When you then consider the location of some of those (i.e. Stern), that's probably another $10K/year, if not more just for cost of living.
What do you experienced monkeys think about this:
He can attend UG in Singapore for $50K and do a MSF here in the US for another $50K or so. He'll then be more well-qualified and in a better position to ask an employer for a work visa than if he were just an undergrad.
Or maybe he can even get a job in SG after his undergrad and not even require the MSF.
That's just my logic, as I wouldn't pay $150K for any undergrad besides Harvard/Wharton/etc.
It may be harsh but i agree with most of your views AGAINST me going. like Kassad said, 150k for an undergrad besides an ivy would seem a little illogical.
@BTbanker, peinvester2012, i am aware of the differences in cost between schools like NYU as compared to IU. The IB workshop is highly selective, but if i should make it into the workshop, does this place me in a much more favourable position to compete with grads from the ivies?
My long term goal would be to work in the US, therefore, i have also considered what Kassad has said about getting a masters after my UG locally, however i am not sure if that will increase my chances of employment in the US?
"150k for an undergrad besides an ivy would seem a little illogical"
I felt likewise as well. Personally I know somebody who migrated from SG to US as he plans to work there. He shared with me about how most companies in the U.S are not willing to go through the admin work or even sponsor you a work visa when they can easily get a local candidate instead. Therefore, he reasoned that it is better to migrate there to make himself more competitive for hiring. I hope my personal experience can help you to make a more informed decision. All the best for your choice of university.
Btw I have also responded to your other thread at http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/business-school-education-worth-it
If you got into the Kelley workshop, you will most likely land a job in IB. Check for other threads, as there were employment results posted in them (and these are recent). It may not be GS, JPM, MS, but the elite boutiques and rest of the BBs were well-represented.
That is absolutely ridiculous
@woozy how did you friend simply just migrate there? I was under the impression that you would have to work there under a h1b before getting a green card, which is a process that takes several years.
I am not very sure about that. Honestly, I feel that you do not seem to be able to handle the 150k debt while studying. No offense but in my opinion, it is better for you to study locally and start networking as much as possible from freshman.
I agree with posters above, only worth getting into 150k for HYSP
One more thing, If I do get into the IB workshop, I would probably be secured a job in IB, however does a kelley ib workshop student = ivy league student? And if I do get into the IB workshop, would this 150k then be justified?
Think what it means to get into 150k debt...you really think a degree that may or may not be marginally better than one from any other state school will net you 150k more than another undergrad over your life? I can't believe U.S. schools are doing this shit now too. I thought ridiculous school fees for foreigners was unique to England.
How will you feel knowing that a majority of your classmates are doing the same thing as you either for free or at a tuition of max 19,000 dollars? That's what the school is worth. It's worth free, it's a damn public school.
I get what you mean, but is IU kelley really not seen as any different from any other state uni?
alright will think it through carefully. thanks for the input. was just wondering about the prospects of SMU grads. Excluding the top students in every cohort, where do the majority of the students end up? I get the impression that they end up with a regular job with little advancement opportunities? I hope i am wrong.
You are not wrong. SMU is not an ivy league school where the bulk of the students are able to achieve front office jobs. Besides IB, there are people who went into S&T, smaller PE and HF as well as management associate programs. However, the majority would be having a regular job. I happen to see your other thread on quantitative finance vs finance. I believe you are comparing the major offered in SMU.
The following website may be of use to you: http://bonduers.wix.com/home#!ktm
After you’ve lived in Indiana for a year, can you get in-state tuition?
Hmm I do not think so, I'm an intl student, and not a US citizen
What would some of these "regular" jobs be? How many % of students go to the other jobs that you have mentioned above? Those with 3.5GPA and abv?
Will smu provide me opportunities to work overseas as well?
Regular jobs includes ops, tech, marketing, HR, private banking, jobs in the public sector, accountancy at the big 4 accountancy firms etc. I do not have statistics for the % of students going there. The point is not everyone with >3.5 GPA wants to go into investment banking, private equity or hedge funds. I know people who treasure their social life much more than exit opportunities/prestige/pay. An example would be people with 3.5 GPA choosing to go into ops in Goldman.
SMU does have people working and doing internships overseas.
Didn't really consider this before, but how big is a cohort in SMU biz? What would the % of students that will graduate with at least a 3.5GPA and above? 10%?
Ambitions aside, if i do return to Singapore, would a deg from Kelley open more doors to a front office jobs like you have mentioned, IB, consulting, private equity, hedge funds etc for me as compared to one from SMU? (assuming same GPA).
For the people who have worked or are working and doing internships overseas, how do they obtain such opportunities? Do you have to be the top student in order to achieve this?
The cohort is about 700. This includes all the finance and non-finance students e.g marketing, ops etc. I am not exactly sure of the % of student with at least 3.5 GPA. I doubt that Kelley will open more doors as compared to SMU. Schools which I have heard of opening more doors includes the ivy league, Stern, LSE etc. There is no requirement to apply for internship overseas. Sometimes the school will provide some of such opportunities while most of the time the students either network or self-source their own internships.
Btw, based on my understanding, GPA only will not guarantee you a front office job. There will always be people having a higher GPA than you and you will not stand out from the rest.
How many of these 700 students eventually major in finance? My impression is that finance is the most popular major among biz students. What about the quantitative finance major? What do you know about it? If what you say is true, then I doubt ill be attending Kelley. The cost is no joke, and if I won't have an advantage over local nus smu ntu grads then it'd be quite disappointing. On another note, how well known is Kelley in Singapore? Because I personally have not heard of until I did my research, unlike schools like Stern which are also not ivy league
I am not sure about the no. of students majoring in finance from biz. However, it is a popular major not only for biz students but the rest of smu population (Info sys, social science, accountancy and economics). In contrast, quant finance is not as popular as finance. I do not have the exact information about it but many people shy away from it due to it being very intensive in math. Regarding its job prospects, I heard of people getting internships in banks to insurance firms.
If you had studied in Singapore, you should know the general mindset of the local people here. Not trying to stereotype but many people immediately assume that if you are not from the local universities, and not part of the ivy leagues/ top UK schools/ well known schools like stern, then it means you probably cannot qualify for the local universities which is not exactly true.
I am not trying to discourage you from attending Kelley as it is your choice in the end. Competition in Singapore is already stiff enough with all the foreign talent and ivy league people.
How many of these 700 students eventually major in finance? My impression is that finance is the most popular major among biz students. What about the quantitative finance major? What do you know about it? If what you say is true, then I doubt ill be attending Kelley. The cost is no joke, and if I won't have an advantage over local nus smu ntu grads then it'd be quite disappointing. On another note, how well known is Kelley in Singapore? Because I personally have not heard of until I did my research, unlike schools like Stern which are also not ivy league
Thanks, and i do agree with what you are saying. Kelley is not a true well recognized school like stern or ross. Which year are you currently in? What is your major?
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