Intel on Hellman & Friedman: Culture, B School, Promotion track
I'm in the process of gathering information ahead of on-cycle recruiting this fall. As my username suggests, I'm a BA/A/AC at MBB looking to make the switch to a top consultant-friendly PE fund. Based on my research so far H&F is one of the best funds out there. I'm looking to you all for help to 1) verify/refute what I've heard about H&F so far and 2) provide any additional insights you may have.
What I've heard so far:
H&F is a top fund with excellent b school placement/exit ops. That said, I've heard it's a bit of sweat shop with a norm of ~85 hours per week and weekends are basically treated as work days. To compensate for that I hear pay is above market both in terms of 1st year all-in cash comp (~300K) and also shadow carry (bringing the total closer to ~450K). Finally it looks like they have a history of bringing 1-2 star Associates back to the firm post-MBA.
Open questions:
1) Is the above accurate? Especially as it relates to hours/lifestyle
2) What is the culture like? Has anyone had any experiences with these guys they'd be willing to share
3) Do they offer business school sponsorship?
4) Anything else I should be thinking about?
If you have the opportunity to work at H&F, hours & lifestyle should be the least of your worries. I have heard that they haven't lost money on an investment in 30 years. Very intellectually pure w/r/t their investment approach.
Also, this: https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/warren-hellman-a-tough-banjo-to-pluck/
Are you saying that tough hours and lifestyle are worth it for the quality of experience you'll get?
That's my assessment, and I would say I skew more towards valuing lifestyle than a lot on this board. H&F's reputation is on par with anyone's in my opinion. You will work incredibly hard for 2 years (have heard they put in exhaustive work on diligence and IC is basically like a debate) but will have a lot of options from there (shoe-in for HBS/GSB, easy to lateral elsewhere, etc.)
Thanks for the advice Bootstrap - very helpful. Would also love to hear from others with anything additional to add
Having spoken with people at H&F, they like to say they "put their money where their mouth is", i.e. they typically pursue/close a smaller number of deals than firms with a similar aum. Their methodology is to do super rigorous dd and be ready to write large equity checks and lock down a smaller number of more concentrated positions.
B school recruiting seems to be strong; my understanding is that if you are a capable associate there will be a conversation about whether you want to go to b school and return or take a third year as a senior-associate equivalent before being promoted to the post-MBA track (this essentially gains you one year over folks who go to b school and return, although the choice to not go to b school also has trade offs).
Would echo all of the above. Well respected firm, know as a sweatshop, they pay well and have strong placement into H/S. With that being said it's a two and out shop with only a few people making it past that. I've also heard that because they're so picky on deals, the deal experience can be hit or miss. I know a guy that spent 2 years there and didn't get a single deal done. With that being said, he went onto a top bschool and the HF name got him another PE job after. I see few reasons not to take it if you got a job there.
All accurate. Very smart people, great training ground, great exit opps, comp is top of the market (across all levels), culture is quite aggressive (everything I hear from people working there sounds like pre-crisis banking fraternity culture) with unbelievably long working hours, lots of traveling, "swim or sink" type mentality. I know 2 handful of current and former associates and basically everyone hates the experience while they are there but once they survived they are glad that they did it (not much different from an IBD analyst experience, but much more intense). Almost impossible to get promoted, and if you get it it's purely because of the money because you have to slave away for close to a decade to have so much vested that it's worth it. Most people categorically exclude a promotion for that reason, even if they got it. Really depends what you want, I dont think the 2 years of high-end comp is worth the effort (esp. given the shadow equity / non-cash component for which you dont see the cash until the respective investments are exited), but in my view the people that make it through are among the smartest and best trained investors globally (and they benefit the next 30++ years from it).
Thanks for all the helpful intel, guys!
How would you compare an opportunity at H&F to an opportunity at a Bain Cap, HIG, Altamont, New Mountain, or Sycamore Partners (are there others I'm missing that hire consultants)?
I'm targeting NYC funds and trying to optimize just a bit around lifestyle (70 hour weeks on avg. vs. 90), so wondering if H&F is really worth the "unbelievably long hours" especially if I want to stay in PE long-term.
I’d add Berkshire Partners and Golden Gate Capital (though they are not NYC) to your list of consultant-friendly shops.
Have heard great things about both. For personal reasons I'm only interested in NYC funds, but I appreciate the suggestions!
I would add Charlesbank to your list of consultant-friendly shops
Not a MF and would def be a step down from H&F, but Lee Equity Partners has a ton of ex-consultants.
Haven't heard H&F being consultant friendly, but they're best-in-class so hours are brutal. Someone once told me AEA was consultant friendly (dunno how true that is). Heard Altamont is consultant friendly (some top of the house folk are ex-Bain). Know someone from MBB who went on to Sycamore after their 2 years.
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Although not relevant to OP, but while we are on the subject, each of Chicago's three largest shops are, to some degree or another, consultant friendly.
Here's a non-exhaustive list of MM/UMM/MF that hire consultants: - Bain Capital - H&F - TPG - Warburg - Advent - New Mountain - Berkshire Partners - Onex - Golden Gate - Sycamore - AEA - Charlesbank
Love all the responses. Do you guys have a sense for how these firms (Altamont, Sycamore, Bain Cap, New Mountain) compare to H&F in terms of culture / lifestyle?
Just wanted to bump this - anyone have an exact sense of the hours here? Looking into H&F but wary of its sweatshop culture. Saw 85 above - that a good estimate?
Also, would love some clarity on promotion as I see above there are posters who say it's impossible but also one who says capable associates get the chance.
Finally if there's any insights on placement between SF and NY that'd be great
I've heard 90+ is the average - some weeks more some weeks less, but definitely a grind. Particularly if you want to stay past associate, as it becomes a greater grind to prove yourself. Sample size is one friend who left 1-2 years ago, not sure if it's gotten better or worse with COVID.
Jeez... constant 90+ is tough, that's like constantly fully occupied weekends as well. Thanks for the insight
from H&F you are going to HBS or GSB
Curious cause I just don't know having not even started my analyst program yet but how much of the if you are at X PE firm you will get into GSB or HBS is because of the PE firm versus like if you got into X PE firm you have such a good resume that you will get into GSB or HBS?
In many cases it's you get x fund you get into h/s. I know of many top tier candidates at UMM or some MF funds where their class has a 30-50% success rate for non minority candidates - these are folks who are above average even for the PE pool; 30-50% is a fantastic success rate. From BX/H&F it's close to 100%. Similar candidates with similar banks, GPAs etc just diff. funds.
Yes, some firms have near 100%, or near 100% H/S acceptances, far above other comparable shops. Partially because the founders/senior folks went to H/S, have donated a lot, and hire exclusively from H/S. So ends up being a win/win: helps the firms hire the best pre-MBA associates and helps H/S because they end up placing students into very high paying/prestigious jobs at the same firms post-MBA. And if those post-MBAs stay in PE/HF and do well, they will hopefully donate $$$ to H/S, thus completing the circle.
Will they interview someone from a mid/lower tier bank like (Citi or UBS)? Looking at LinkedIn it seems as though everyone is from top tier banks. Is this bc those candidates tend to do better in the interviews or simply because they are the only ones to get interviews?
They might give you an interview, particularly if you network/can really articulate why their style makes sense. That said, just to set realistic expectations, it's hands down one of the most selective buyside gigs to land.
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