Is Summer Analyst Recruiting Out of Control?

Perella Weinberg TPH Summer Analyst 2020 applications opened about a week ago. TPH is basically targeting sophomores in their fall semester or students that were only freshman months ago*. At this rate they'll be recruiting from target high schools i.e. andover, exeter, sidwell friends, & etc. Lol this is becoming crazy. What's driving firms to behave this way?

There are firms in 2018 that are just now kicking off their 2019 summer analyst process. Back in 2014 firms were still recruiting December/January for Juniors; now it's way too early. Any thoughts? Links below:

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/2020-tph-invest...
https://www.tphco.com/careers/
edit: Changed "TPH is basically targeting freshman" to "TPH is basically targeting sophomores"

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Comments (48)

Sep 22, 2018

i think you did your math kinda wrong. 2020 means that they are targeting sophomores in their fall semester not freshman. But yes I agree this has seriously gotten out of hand. I really don't see any reason to keep pushing this stuff forward as many kids will be evaluated without potentially having had any internships yet :(

Sep 22, 2018

Thanks for pointing that out. I made the changes. Can firms recruiting hypercompetitively have negative affects for higher-education? It'll be interesting to the results of this.

Work hard, work clean, & most of all do not give up.

Sep 22, 2018

Yes it's out of control. Unfortunately I don't really see a reason why it would get pushed back (or stop moving further up).

Sep 22, 2018

I don't see the PWP 2020 SA apps online? Did you that through OCR.

Sep 22, 2018

Work hard, work clean, & most of all do not give up.

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Sep 23, 2018

Holy this is crazy thanks

I don't even have any idea for sophomore summer yet

Most Helpful
Sep 22, 2018

It is a complete mess.

Sep 22, 2018

My projection firms will continue to move forward until they get a few duds as summer analysts because they didn't develop any skills in internships while they sat on their junior summer offer or after people start backing out of internships because they change their mind / get an offer somewhere else they prefer and reneg. Then they'll be more conservative.

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Sep 23, 2018

Has already happened over the past two summers - this is just going to be magnified as recruiting moves up earlier!

Sep 23, 2018

Has the return rate offer been lower the past two years where you work?

Sep 26, 2018

Just anectdotal evidence but from what I know returns offers have been lower across the board this summer than the previous summers.

Could just be dumb luck but I'm guessing it has something to do with the accelerated recruiting

    • 1
Sep 22, 2018

insane

Sep 23, 2018

Fucking idiotic. Gonna recruit out of high school next at this rate.

    • 2
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Sep 23, 2018

Crazy. Let's hope this isn't a general trend for this season.

To infinity... and beyond!

Sep 23, 2018

Disaster waiting to happen

    • 1
Sep 23, 2018

I don't even see the point of it and it will by no means increase talent in the classes recruited. Banks will just hire people that think they know what they want to do instead of top talent. It's sad to see that IB is becoming more competitive for the wrong reasons (banks making it harder rather than increasing the average candidate).

Sep 23, 2018

I think it will continue moving up until the next recession. Firms will cut back on their offers that are more than a year out from their start dates. The economy will recover and they will recruit again closer to the start dates.

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Sep 23, 2018

Yes it is out of hand and I'm not sure exactly why. They're recruiting for the SAME spot but earlier which makes no sense. They want a student for their Junior year internship to "test" them and see if they would make good full time candidates. One could argue that evaluating a student when they're older rather than earlier in their college days would provide a more accurate picture of who that student is and if they'll be a good intern / analyst. Plus the demand is always going to be there so I don't really see a point. With hundreds of thousands of applicants and a few thousand TOP spots who gives a shit if Goldman gets the top 150 and JP gets the next 150. Is the risk of having 5, 10, 20 shitty interns really worth getting a ranked 20 prospect vs. a rank 60? (Plus these are arbitrary ranks... none of them have been through the grind yet and a candidate that is rank 1 on paper may be a dud...)

But yeah... fucking crazy

    • 1
Sep 26, 2018

I think a lot of it has to do with the top targets and the whole idea of prestige - from what I know some BBs that went late completely missed out on getting the above average candidates from these schools.

    • 3
Sep 26, 2018

investment banker

What concert costs 45 cents? 50 Cent feat. Nickelback.

    • 2
Funniest
Sep 26, 2018

Can't wait to see an under 21 sa get hammered and screw the MD.

Of course it may be a few years before they come out with it at his confirmation hearing.

If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!

    • 11
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Sep 27, 2018

MeToo will follow lol.

Work hard, work clean, & most of all do not give up.

    • 1
Sep 28, 2018
WalMartShopper:

Can't wait to see an under 21 sa get hammered and screw the MD.

Of course it may be a few years before they come out with it at his confirmation hearing.

A few years?

Sep 26, 2018

CS is coming to my target this week for 2020....

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Sep 26, 2018

This is actually fucking bedrock stupid. I imagine firms that do this will eventually get burned by absolutely trash interns, as many of you said above.

Dayman?

Sep 26, 2018

I go to a target school and have seen the quality of candidates who were hired into certain summer analyst programs in large part because the process starts late in late sophomore year. Anecdotally, being in the top half of the class is about the standard for a top IBD spot ... which doesn't seem very stringent if the reasoning behind early SA recruiting is to get the best of the best.

Sep 26, 2018

Glad these banks all autistic recruiting processes that are heavily outdated, makes it that much easier to snipe talent hehe.

Will be curious to see if they ever start behaving more like tech firms in their recruiting approach.

Sep 26, 2018

RIP Non-targets. I don't believe for a second this is an issue with tech stealing the talent. No first year student is going to have jack-all understanding of anything and they're still going to recruit them? The only type of candidate this is going to benefit is someone who knew they wanted IB in high school - you literally have to be bred for this to answer why IB.

    • 2
Sep 27, 2018

Yeah as a Non-target I can tell you the recruiting process has been brutal. Will look to lateral in after a year.

Work hard, work clean, & most of all do not give up.

Sep 26, 2018

Closest Houlihan branch to my school already closed 2020 SA apps on our career portal.

    • 3
Sep 27, 2018

wtf

Sep 27, 2018

"What Do You Think Of The SA Uber Accelerated Recruiting Cycle?"

Source: https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/polls/what-do-you-...

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Sep 27, 2018

These banks have identified key traits that their top performers possess that are evident at an earlier date in a potential bankers life. They are trying to capitalize on that albeit placing a higher degree of trust in their recruiters to be capable of recognizing them correctly.

    • 5
Sep 28, 2018

Hey I am a freshman at Baruch, I want to become an Investment Banker. People have told me it's a Non-Target/Semi-Target and what not; I know this is a very broad question, but what should I be doing right now? Like should I be looking for internships already? I just started school, or do I wait until next year? I'm just a little worried and confused because if certain firms are opening applications for years to come, I don't want to miss out and get screwed. Are all firms doing this, or is it specific ones? And if so, how do I even build up my resume for such an early application? Like I haven't really done jack shit as yet.

    • 7
Sep 28, 2018

Get a high GPA this semester. Apply to all the Insights/Minority programs at all the Major banks & firms. Try to get an IBD boutique internship in NYC spring freshman yr. Maintain 3.5+ GPA. Try to get brand name summer internships like Big4, industry your freshman summer, or IBD.

Follow up with the firms you did freshman insight programs for to get a foot in for recruitment.

Work hard, work clean, & most of all do not give up.

Sep 28, 2018

Most freshmen have not done jack shit either so I would not worry about that. Your priority right now should be to get a high GPA and to find a finance-related internship for the summer to get that on your resume (this sets many people apart when it comes time for recruiting as it shows you have the drive to find a freshman summer internship which is hard to come by for most). Start reaching out to your immediate network that has any connections to the industry to actually learn what IB entails and if it is something that fits your personality. If you are dead-set on IB, it would not hurt to get a technical guide and slowly start studying so when it comes time for interviews, it is like second nature. I would not freak out about the recruiting getting extremely early. If you are on this site seeking advice as a freshman, you are in a good place. Just focus on GPA, freshman internship, technicals, and building your network. If you start this now you will be surprised what your resume/knowledge will look like a year from now.

Sep 28, 2018

I'm a junior at Baruch myself. Managed to land an offer at JPM for the coming summer. All I can say is that networking should be your full time job while you go to class.

    • 1
Sep 28, 2018

It's ridiculous. It assumes students know very early on that they want not just to be in finance, but to do banking specifically. This gives students little chance to bone up on technicals and do the networking. All so banks can line up their intern classes more than a year in advance? Ridiculous. The banks keep trying to preempt each other but every other bank just keeps coming earlier in response.

Sep 28, 2018

Non-target, semi-target, target - whichever you are, this recruiting cycle is not ideal whatsoever. Students develop and change drastically over the course of even one semester, let alone an entire school-year. To think that they can pinpoint traits in candidates that will definitively make them the best on the job is ridiculous. Are HR majors now also psychologists? I've seen kids who showed tons of promise completely throw it away within one semester (due to a myriad of reasons, as you can imagine in college), and seen kids with nothing going for them pull it together, show out and land great jobs in the same amount of time. Recruiting sophomore (basically freshmen) students with only GenEds, maybe not even a declared major, likely no work experience, and very little understanding of the industry for a position almost 2 years in advance is absurd. I turned down a full-time offer after a sophomore year internship for this exact reason, and sure enough, my interests and focus had changed entirely within the next several months.

Being a non-target student myself, I dealt with the accelerated timelines by networking and preparing for interviews as early as possible. That being said, I had no knowledge of what investment banking even was until the summer before my Junior year. I'd imagine that's the case for many. My point here is that regardless of accelerated recruiting, there is going to be a ceiling, and in any case, capable students from different levels of schools can find a place somewhere if they are willing to put the groundwork in. So don't sweat it.

Sep 28, 2018

Great to see I'm not the only one wondering this. I'm a transfer sophomore student and as a result I have barely touched finance classes, yet they are recruiting us already.

Sep 28, 2018

It's ridiculous. Firms agree to specific dates and all it takes is for one to shift and the rest follow. It happens every year and is one of the key reasons as to why it continues to get pushed up. To say it's "not ideal" is an understatement - it's a shit show more than anything else, and honestly, I'd argue screws the banks more than the kids.

tl;dr: Garbage situation, shouldn't be this way. Pity.

Jan 10, 2019

I agree, these banks are moving in the wrong direction. This is actually good for non target applicants

The fact is, that pay differential between IB and tech jobs is shrinking and demand for kids with quantitative / coding skills is soaring in the US. Consequently many Ivy League kids are being drawn towards opportunities in data analytics and tech consulting where the hours are more reasonable than in IB.

In my opinion, there is a fundamental shift in demand taking place for tech savvy graduates in the US This shift is occurring because Trump has made it almost impossible for Indian Coders to come to the US directly on the H1B. Therefore, there are about 75,000 more jobs each year for tech savvy kids in the US than before.

So actually it isn't other banks that are poaching talent, it is tech consulting and analytics that is sucking away all the talent

Sep 29, 2018

i recruited super early in finance with no finance classes under my belt besides macro and micro econ. thankfully it was nearly all behavioral and logic questions, but still begs the question as to how they will ever be able to deal with kids whose actual financial aptitude they won't be able to gauge in an interview 14 months ahead of SA start dates

Sep 29, 2018

I am a non-target finance student, this is getting waay out of hand

Sep 30, 2018

Speaking as a former BB M&A banker who now helps college kids get into IB as a consultant to several schools, target and non-target, I can say that this process is really hurting the non-targets. Some of the non-target kids I work with would easily have scored an SA position in the last couple of years, but they've been totally shut out this year. As others have said, this is going to go on until the banks get too many reneges or actually hire too many kids who don't realize what they're getting into. My advice for those who are at non-targets or semi-targets (and don't qualify for diversity programs): network, network, network as much as you can, and give yourself a reality check once in a while to make sure this is what you want.

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Sep 30, 2018
Sep 30, 2018
Oct 8, 2018

Work hard, work clean, & most of all do not give up.