Is Wokeness the New McCarthyism?

What do people think? Are we just overreacting with all this wokeness BS? Is this just a fad or is it here to stay? Most people really don't seem to buy into this wokeness BS, especially the minorities. 

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Comments (86)

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Gen
Apr 21, 2021 - 11:36pm

There actually were communists in the state department and in various parts of public sector American life actively spying for the Soviet government. They had an incredibly effective global spying apparatus - it's easy to recruit when you're a nation based on a (then) seductive internationalist ideology. We were in the middle of a standoff with an uncertain ending with both sides holding world-ending weapons not too longer after a brutal global war and no expectation that we could avoid another one. 

The Chinese Cultural Revolution is a much better comparison, where everyone kinda went retarded for like ten years for no real reason at all. But with a techno-dystopian twist where you get unpersoned instead of shot. 

anyway ron desantis is basically deng xiaoping

Apr 22, 2021 - 5:34pm

anyway ron desantis is basically deng xiaoping

I fucking hope so dude.

Seriously the emergence of Ron DeSantis might end up going down in the history books as a major silver lining of the COVID-19 pandemic; I have become increasingly convinced that he is THE leader this country so desperately needs to combat this pathological woke ethno-communist ideology.

I'm also quite bullish on his prospects for electoral success. I strongly believe a significant majority of Americans realize how dangerous, wrong, and truly evil the woke ideology is (they are afraid to say so, but won't be at the ballot box) and think that he will garner significant support from traditional Democrats / liberals. Additionally, he has demonstrated himself to be uniquely capable in fending off dishonest attacks pushed by the mainstream press and other ideologically captured institutions; this will certainly continue, and trust me every time he absolutely dismantles one of their narratives the Democrats bleed a few more votes (the media is too stupid to understand this).

Unfortunately $50 and $100 were the max bets with the current action levels, but I'd pile into this trade at current odds.

"The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money" - Margaret Thatcher
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Apr 22, 2021 - 9:35pm

We're on the way there. You should check out John Robb who has been talking about this for years . . . I've been amazed at how accurate he has been. We are seeing the alignment of networked corporations/institutions to limit allowable speech, behavior, and facts down to a narrow orthodoxy (see: response to recent Georgia voting laws).

The guy is legit and his subscription is well worth the $10/month.

"The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money" - Margaret Thatcher
Controversial
  • Associate 2 in Consulting
Apr 22, 2021 - 7:18am

completely different because McCarthyism was actually a good thing & sadly unfulfilled. Cultural Marxists / Internationalists clearly infiltrated the US at all levels and the results are clear to see for everyone here today. As someone from the ex-USSR now living abroad in the west I am deeply saddened to see whats happening in the US. I would have loved to immigrate there but its going down the drain. Note I also actively appreciate and think it should be made hard for people like me to move to US and potentially take someone else's job but in the grand scheme of things the bigger concern is the 30-50m or so illegals draining your country of everything. If anything i'd be looking forward to helping the citizens when its finally reckoning time. 

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
Apr 22, 2021 - 1:19pm

Are you joking or just delusional? The US government was borderline authoritarian during the McCarthy era. Government persecution isn't even comparable to perverts, racists and misogynists being exposed on social media. 

Define what an internationalist is and why they are problematic as opposed to radical nationalists or isolationists? I'm not even going to address your hugely uninformed perception of the immigration problem in the US but perhaps it's better that you didn't end up in this country. 

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Gen
Apr 22, 2021 - 2:55pm

Are you joking or just delusional? The US government was borderline authoritarian during the McCarthy era. Government persecution isn't even comparable to perverts, racists and misogynists being exposed on social media. 

Define what an internationalist is and why they are problematic as opposed to radical nationalists or isolationists? I'm not even going to address your hugely uninformed perception of the immigration problem in the US but perhaps it's better that you didn't end up in this country. 

No it wasn't lol. Not even close. You had rapid proliferation of an ideology that had just killed 30 million+ people worldwide, that was aggressively expansionist, whose founding nation had a large number of nuclear weapons pointed at America and thousands of tanks ready to roll through Western Europe, and that was fundamentally based around violent proletarian revolution. And they were actively recruiting Americans as spies and social influencers to push America towards oblivion.

As a result, some actors, politicians, and journalists lost their jobs as actors, politicians, and journalists. Now contrast people being blacklisted for espousing a violent revolutionary ideology with a massive bodycount to people being blacklisted for... disagreeing with some insane Critical Race Theory bullshit that nobody in the country believed less than ten years ago. The two are hard to compare, but not for the reasons you're outlining. The McCarthy era gets a bad rap because the radical left journalists, academics, and actors who were blacklisted were eventually restored and controlled the social narrative from that point on. 

Immigration is a different issue, but it's trivially easy to design an immigration policy that isn't retarded. Use points systems, don't let unfiltered randoms from shitty countries in or your country will drift towards the standard of the countries they came from. It's not a country built on magical dirt, nations are composed of people. 

Apr 22, 2021 - 7:26pm

Are you joking or just delusional? The US government was borderline authoritarian during the McCarthy era. Government persecution isn't even comparable to perverts, racists and misogynists being exposed on social media. 

Define what an internationalist is and why they are problematic as opposed to radical nationalists or isolationists? I'm not even going to address your hugely uninformed perception of the immigration problem in the US but perhaps it's better that you didn't end up in this country.

You are painfully ignorant here and it shows.

Array

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  • Research Associate in Research - Other
Apr 22, 2021 - 2:23pm

completely different because McCarthyism was actually a good thing & sadly unfulfilled. 

How the Fuck was a national red fear that scared people and ruined innocent lives by victimizing non-Communists as being Communists ever good?

DELUSIONAL x 1000

Most Helpful
Apr 22, 2021 - 8:37am

Every American should watch the interview with Yuri Bezmenov in school and be taught in-depth about the evils of Communism and its practitioners. This man basically laid out what's been happening with our politicians and prominent media figures decades in advance. We've already seen multiple high ranking politicians have deeply shady monetary ties to the CCP, some going as far back as their start in politics, and that number is only going up as time passes.

Communism was the single largest threat of the 20th century but we conveniently forget that in order to prop up Hitler as the ultimate evil. He certainly is when it comes to the practice of industrialized murder, there's no arguing that the concentration camps he created are some of the most appalling concoctions in human history. But communists killed more than 10x the raw number of people Nazis did in the 20th century. Beyond the Soviet Union, there were the killing fields in Cambodia, the Korean War, Cuba, and more. And they're still to this day our largest economic opponent.

Also I just want to add Nazinsky: Stalin's Cannibal Island - one of the worst gulags the Communists ever had that I think is on par with the worst of Nazi concentration camps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaOwcYLGTMo

Array

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Apr 22, 2021 - 12:41pm

The fact that Eric Swalwell has the gall to appear in public instead of hiding under his bed for being a useful idiot for the CCP pisses me off to no end. He's the one that comes to the top of my head, but I'm sure there are many others. On the flip side, the populist factions in both parties who support isolationism hand the CCP global victories like RCEP (the largest trading partnership in history) in place of the TPP, which would have given the US and allied countries much greater leverage over China and its allies. In the future, I wouldn't be surprised if Biden tries to do something stupid like create a climate change agreement that includes China and other shady, authoritarian nations only for the shady countries not to follow it while shaming Western nations. Here's to hoping more politicians mold themselves into Tom Cotton or Ron DeSantis-like figures.

I’m a fun guy. Obviously I love the game of basketball. I mean there’s more questions you have to ask me in order for me to tell you about myself. I'm not just gonna give you a whole spill... I mean, I don't even know where you're sitting at
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Apr 22, 2021 - 12:46pm

Kawhi Anthony Leonard

The fact that Eric Swalwell has the gall to appear in public instead of hiding under his bed for being a useful idiot for the CCP pisses me off to no end. He's the one that comes to the top of my head, but I'm sure there are many others. On the flip side, the populist factions in both parties who support isolationism hand the CCP global victories like RCEP (the largest trading partnership in history) in place of the TPP, which would have given the US and allied countries much greater leverage over China and its allies. In the future, I wouldn't be surprised if Biden tries to do something stupid like create a climate change agreement that includes China and other shady, authoritarian nations only for the shady countries not to follow it while shaming Western nations. Here's to hoping more politicians mold themselves into Tom Cotton or Ron DeSantis-like figures.

I think you might want to read this and revisit everything else that Tony Bobulinski said: Biden Whistleblower Emails: Chinese Energy Company Gave $5 Million Non-Secured, Forgivable Loan to Biden 'Family'. Large parts of our government have been benefiting on the side from Chinese expansion since Clinton's presidency in the 90s. There's a reason the Occupy Wall Street protests started in 2008 under Obama, and there's a reason that the government and corporations have so whole-heartedly jumped into the new race-based protests and wokeism. It completely deflects the responsibility they bear for their actions onto some intangible, quantifiable inequality based solely around a characteristic people can't control, keeping the uneducated and misinformed populace fighting amongst themselves rather than voting to bring in regulation that could stop the money party. This country has already gone through this once, just coming from the opposite direction. But with the exact same premise.

Array

Apr 22, 2021 - 5:55pm

Biden rejoined the WHO which does not allow Taiwan a seat on the commission due to the fact that China doesn't recognize Taiwan as a country. Taiwan has had the best handling of COVID in the world, and still is not even allowed an opportunity to speak to world leaders due to this. Taiwan not being recognized is one reason why Trump left the WHO and he independently pursued stronger relations with Taiwan.

Here's a source: https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/why-does-who-exclude-taiwan, and there are plenty more. 

Also what you are wishing doesn't happen has already happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Agreement

Climate change agreement with China and other "shady nations" developed in 2016. Trump withdrew from the Paris Agreement when he took office, but Biden immediately rejoined the agreement after he took office. 

Array

Apr 22, 2021 - 10:01am

"Wokeness" is the new state religion, any deviation from it's doctrine results in relentless public shaming along with a little violence. Heretics won't be able to find work. It's taught everywhere from schools to corporations. Criticism is not allowed, critics will be punished. There is a "woke" mob on every corner, real or virtual, to police behavior. 

  • Intern in IB - Gen
Apr 22, 2021 - 1:14pm

It's bullshit propagated by a loud minority. None of my black friends give a shit about 90% of what they say, just don't be blatantly racist. Microaggressions are an excuse to be a perpetual victim or to prove "wokeness" and deter actual progression. Everything from President Biden down to inner-city school board politics makes the matter worse. Also, I know there are other race issues, but I just have seen more of it relating to black minorities as opposed to others.

Lumping microaggressions in with actual issues and labeling it all as "racism" just causes people who aren't as aware to write the whole thing off. Saying black people as opposed to POC is a ridiculous issue and one that should not even be considered racism at this point because it dilutes real issues like racist police brutality.

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Gen
Apr 22, 2021 - 3:02pm

It's bullshit propagated by a loud minority. None of my black friends give a shit about 90% of what they say, just don't be blatantly racist. Microaggressions are an excuse to be a perpetual victim or to prove "wokeness" and deter actual progression. Everything from President Biden down to inner-city school board politics makes the matter worse. Also, I know there are other race issues, but I just have seen more of it relating to black minorities as opposed to others.

Lumping microaggressions in with actual issues and labeling it all as "racism" just causes people who aren't as aware to write the whole thing off. Saying black people as opposed to POC is a ridiculous issue and one that should not even be considered racism at this point because it dilutes real issues like racist police brutality.

I get where you're coming from, but the "loud minority" thing is a decades long conservative cope. That should be really obvious at this point. Yes, it's a minority - but it's a minority with complete institutional dominance and the ability to severely damage the nation and ruin lives. The Bolsheviks were a "loud minority" too. Small groups of motivated people can cause havoc if they have serious power, and wokies (for reasons difficult to understand) have serious power.

They're a disease that the nation must overcome to survive, but it's not really clear how at this point.

Apr 23, 2021 - 11:06am

Yes this is a very good point, small-ish but influential and committed groups can have huge impact as you mention. 

Array
  • Analyst 2 in IB - Gen
Apr 22, 2021 - 3:15pm

You guys seriously need to turn off the social media and TV

People in the real world don't care about this shit. It's just media stirring the pot up , and you jabronis keep falling for it 

Total cope. 99% of the time nobody in East Germany had to give a shit about Marxist ideology. They just woke up, ate breakfeast, went to work at the factory, came home, played with their kids etc. The same is true for common people living under any insane regime/elite class. But 1% of the time you voice an unapproved opinion about the GDR and your neighbor reporst you to the Stasi and OOPS you're unpersoned.

"The media stirring shit up" is the problem. This ideological disease has infected virtually every important institution in the country. Social media, news media, corporations, academia, government etc. 

Also, we're experiencing a rapid spike in crime and violence as a direct result of this woke bullshit. Cities are less safe and livable as a direct result of it. So i'm probably understating the impact here.

  • Research Associate in Research - Other
Apr 22, 2021 - 3:28pm

Yeah I honestly could not care less.

But when you come across crazy people who wants to "destroy" you for some stupid shit, I want to know if that's gonna get worse or just die off the way McCarthyism did.

  • Analyst 1 in S&T - Equities
Apr 22, 2021 - 8:42pm

I had a similar attitude to you prior to last year, but now I care. Maybe I've lost my mind, but what is going on right now is very tangible and very real. 

Apr 22, 2021 - 5:46pm

The people getting cancelled are real.....hate to break it to you.  If all this woke crap was all talk and no action, I would agree with you, but real people's lives are getting ruined by this crap, education systems for kids are being turned upside down, and even police are scared to do their jobs. 

Last time I checked, real people care about education and public safety.

  • Analyst 1 in S&T - Equities
Apr 23, 2021 - 9:23am

Look at what is being taught at even the most elite K-12s. Read the letter that former banker sent to his daughter's NYC school before pulling her. Forgot which one it was, but one of the usual suspect schools.

  • Works at Goldman Sachs
Apr 23, 2021 - 12:56pm

You guys seriously need to turn off the social media and TV

People in the real world don't care about this shit. It's just media stirring the pot up , and you jabronis keep falling for it 

Except they do. Our workplace behavior, social events, hiring policies (need to hire x demographic), the way friends behave etc has all changed drastically 

Apr 22, 2021 - 3:02pm

No it is not.

 

Whatever you want to call it – wokeness, critical social justice (critical race theory being a primary example), neoracism, ethnocommunism – this belief system is pure ideological cancer. It is an existential threat to the country and in turn Western civilization as a whole (I mean this with zero hyperbole).

 

If "wokeness" is allowed to continue to proliferate, I can say with absolute certainty it will destroy the country. It explicitly aims to divide Americans into warring identity groups that are perpetually in conflict with one another, resulting in zero social cohesion which negatively impacts all areas of society. Its rejection of Enlightenment values will unequivocally stall scientific and technological progress. And it massively increases the likelihood of extreme violence and the rise of a dangerous political order. Literally every single metric related to living standards, progress, etc will deteriorate. Best case scenario if the "woke" ideology is not stopped is that the country will be incapable of governing itself and will cede global power and leadership to authoritarian and illiberal civilization-states like Russia and China. In a worse but more likely scenario, we repeat the breakup of Yugoslavia but on our home turf (really really bad if you don't know just fyi).

 

I'm a pretty damn optimistic person in general, but am really nahhht feeling great about where things stand today to be quite honest. This is really an existential fight for America, the West, and the belief that all men (and women) are created equal. Its heart wrenching to say so, but I'm afraid that the 1960s-vintage, MLK-derived "content of their character" liberal model of race relations is dead, and its not coming back. We have some hope in the court system, as many of the policies the woke seek to impose are so obviously unconstitutional. But this isn't all that comforting when the position that "The American left should work toward abolishing the Constitution someday" isn't all that unpopular on one side of the political spectrum. So we shall see. And if that should indeed be the case, I'll see you in the gulag broskis.

 

 

PS: That drunken bastard Tail Gunner Joe was certainly a loose cannon, but he wasn't wrong in his general premise. Unfortunately, right now we have a much deeper problem, as Marxism (the most genocidal ideology in history) is no longer confined to the fringes of American society as it was in McCarthy's era. The Marxists, adjusting their ideology to focus on conflict between identity groups (oppressor/oppressed) rather than along class lines (proletariat/bourgeoisie), are now the Woke . . . and they have successfully infected almost every major American institution with this pathological ideology to a degree McCarthy couldn't have conceived of. Their "Long March Through the Institutions" is nearing completion, and they have no qualms about using violence, coercion, and dishonesty in pursuit of the absolute power needed to impose their woke theocracy on the United States and the West at large.

 

Buckle up, it's gonna get bumpy.

"The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money" - Margaret Thatcher
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  • Intern in IB - Gen
Apr 22, 2021 - 4:53pm

On a federal scale, renewable energy. It's complete fraud that's going to almost double the usage of electricity over the next 20 years, which is generated by about 80% nonrenewable sources. But renewable energy bill is a headline that politicians use to gain social points without actual consideration for anything logical. 

A lot of the policies about racism, homelessness, etc. are handled on a city basis. Sanctuary cities for illegal immigrants or in a number of cities the homeless have practically free-range 

Apr 22, 2021 - 7:44pm

Ohhh boy I could tick off examples for hours. However, I'll pick the concept of "equity" of "diversity, equity, and inclusion" fame (THESE THINGS DO NOT MEAN WHAT YOU THINK THEY MEAN).

A real life example of how "equity" works in practice: Well the CDC's initial guidance re: Covid-19 vaccinations suggested vaccinating essential workers first, rather than the 65+ age (highest risk) group, for the express purpose of mitigating racial and ethnic "health inequities" as those in the 65+ age group tend to be whiter!  Basically in an effort to "create equity" the idea was to a) vaccinate essential workers first so as a % more minorities would receive the vaccination, accepting as a consequence b) a greater number of deaths both overall and within minority populations! THEY STATED THIS! Read this article, absolutely BONKERS.

 Uber-progressive (again the woke are distinctly illiberal; this isn't inherently a left/right thing although the right is united in opposition, in fact many of the most articulate and strident critics of CSJ/CRT are decidedly on the political left) Matt Yglesias sums it up nicely, saying that "The decision here is to not prioritize vaccinating them, but to instead vaccinate a different, less vulnerable group of people and then assert that this creates some kind of abstract collective racial benefit . . . There have been a lot of takes lately about woke liberals prioritizing symbolic racial issues over the concrete needs of non-white people, but this idea really takes the cake." Ah just remembered one more ridiculous one: Oregon Establishes Covid-19 Relief Fund Exclusively for Black-Owned Businesses. AM I LOSING MY MIND? ARE WE GOING TO DO LUNCH COUNTERS NEXT?

"The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money" - Margaret Thatcher
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  • Associate 1 in IB-M&A
Apr 22, 2021 - 4:30pm

You're conflating government action with popular sentiment. McCarthy used the full force of the federal government to force people in front of congress and perform a public spectacle of an inquisition, "Wokeness" is a bunch of people on twitter saying you're an asshole for acting a certain way. These are not the same thing. 

The problem is that guys who wear punisher tshirts and Fox News act as if everyone who is saying "hey, maybe I shouldn't ask the asian kid born in New Jersey where he's REALLY from" is calling for a nationalization of the banks. 

But what happens is that people like OP and all the "Certified Non-finance" people in this thread take an editorial out of the Wellesley College newspaper and act as if every liberal got together and signed it. Like the fucking genius above who thinks that abolishing the constitution is popular among the left because he found an article in New Republic magazine-a publication that sits to the left of Bernie Sanders. It's intellectually lazy and is trash reasoning. Newsflash - Biden won the Democratic primary, not Bernie, not Warren, Biden. So spare me this handwringing. 

Do people on the "woke" side of the spectrum go to far? Absolutely. But acting as if we're all about to start smelting iron in our backyard because someone asked you to stop doing the Apu accent is asinine. 

  • Associate 1 in IB-M&A
Apr 22, 2021 - 6:32pm

Excuse me, no they don't. Our country is specifically laid out so that Wyoming gets the same power as California in the senate. The people of Wisconsin elected a guy who they thought would chase after the "hollywood elite", and who gained enough power through parliamentary process to put the whole country on trial. I can't believe that people are defending him above. 

What is left unsaid is that these words we've seen thrown around in this thread - hollywood, elite, coastal, Marxist, wall street - always kind of finds it's way to one thing: Jews. I think a lot of people who don't have never thought one way or another about Jews get co-opted into hating a caricature of what the white supremacist believes the Jew to be.  It's a slow drip - stats with Joe Rogan and Jordan Petersen and hating on "SJWs" and "Feminists" and "Blue haired liberals", but then morphs into a hatred of some "force" that is responsible for all the evils of the world, then you start talking about the Rothschilds and suddenly you're marching on Charlottesville yelling that Jews will not replace us. 

All right leaning people are not a monolith, but I do think that some very smart but prejudiced people use common complaints to co-opt what are legitimate complaints (economic inequality between fly-over states and coasts) into bonafide prejudice and outright anti-Semitism and racism.  

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Gen
Apr 22, 2021 - 7:14pm

You're conflating government action with popular sentiment. McCarthy used the full force of the federal government to force people in front of congress and perform a public spectacle of an inquisition, "Wokeness" is a bunch of people on twitter saying you're an asshole for acting a certain way. These are not the same thing. 

The problem is that guys who wear punisher tshirts and Fox News act as if everyone who is saying "hey, maybe I shouldn't ask the asian kid born in New Jersey where he's REALLY from" is calling for a nationalization of the banks. 

But what happens is that people like OP and all the "Certified Non-finance" people in this thread take an editorial out of the Wellesley College newspaper and act as if every liberal got together and signed it. Like the fucking genius above who thinks that abolishing the constitution is popular among the left because he found an article in New Republic magazine-a publication that sits to the left of Bernie Sanders. It's intellectually lazy and is trash reasoning. Newsflash - Biden won the Democratic primary, not Bernie, not Warren, Biden. So spare me this handwringing. 

Do people on the "woke" side of the spectrum go to far? Absolutely. But acting as if we're all about to start smelting iron in our backyard because someone asked you to stop doing the Apu accent is asinine. 

You're basically making a libertarian argument - the only institution that matters is the government. If anything else puts a boot on your neck, oh well, free market. Inconsistent with several decades of liberal understanding of power and institutions, but convenient I guess. Whether you're unpersoned because a small group controlling government destroys your life, or because a small group controlling a somewhat more decentralized group of institutions (big tech, multinationals, academia, media etc.) doesn't really matter. The impact is the same - a small group with power is stomping on people for deviating from the orthodoxy of The Party. And don't give anyone horseshit about "oh no this is just confined to kooky liberals on campus!" unless you literally awoke from a 15 year coma. Insane leftist woke garbage IS the institutional left today. It's almost universal. It's why liberal newspapers have had so many internal dustups recently - old guard liberals who cut their teeth decades ago just aren't quite woke enough. The Mensheviks are giving way to the Bolsheviks. 

I don't doubt that there are a large % of Democrat voters who aren't crazy and just want healthcare expansion and renewables subsidies or whatever. We're talking about the elite - the tastemakers, the people who control narratives, the people with institutional dominance. Those people absolutely are all-in on woke garbage. That's not an exclusively left-wing phenomenon either. Bush era Republicans and the conservative intellectual establishment were the exact same. "Invade the world / invite the world" neoconservatism on foreign policy and immigration, a hyperfocus on tax cuts for their oligarch friends, and a handful of symbolic scraps tossed to social conservatives. None of that aligned with the interests or desires of the base.

The difference between the groups is that conservatives hate their party establishment, are quick to hate and distrust their own media, and generally dislike the handful of institutions that are actually on their side (2A advocates dislike the NRA). That's what's funny about the constant liberal projection about Fox News - there's an assumption that conservatives have the same obscene 80% "trust in media" figure that liberals poll at. They don't.  Rhetoric and policy on the right has shifted towards nationalism and populism because there's a recognition among elites that the base is fully willing to torpedo their own side if they feel betrayed. 

Apr 22, 2021 - 8:58pm

Like the fucking genius above who thinks that abolishing the constitution is popular among the left because he found an article in New Republic magazine-a publication that sits to the left of Bernie Sanders. It's intellectually lazy and is trash reasoning. Newsflash - Biden won the Democratic primary, not Bernie, not Warren, Biden. So spare me this handwringing. 

Do people on the "woke" side of the spectrum go to far? Absolutely. But acting as if we're all about to start smelting iron in our backyard because someone asked you to stop doing the Apu accent is asinine. 

First just want to point out I wrote "isn't all that unpopular" rather than "popular" as you claim, and I don't think most readers would conflate the two. Also I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that the New Republic is to the Left what the National Review is to the Right i.e. the party establishment for the most part? Jacobin Magazine it is not.

I'm not trying to pick an argument man, I'm really not. Most people on the left aren't woke; it is a loud minority. And they are definitely not liberal, in fact they are distinctly illiberal. I think liberals and conservatives need to put aside their political differences and purge this destructive ideology from our institutions and the mainstream discourse. I'm big history guy and I promise you the trajectory we are on is not good. The ramping up of ingroup/outgroup rhetoric is frightening, and language that dehumanizes the perceived outgroup is becoming increasingly prevalent and mainstream . . . think French Revolution, the Third Reich, Pol Pot's Year Zero, Hutus/Tutsis . . . I'm not saying we are heading towards genocide at all but rather this is a road we do not want to go down and the parallels are scary. And circling back to the Neo-Marxist label I ascribed to the woke, what we are seeing now - the redefinition of language, the collective group guilt, the interrogations, denunciations, struggle sessions and forced confessions - this is EXACTLY how communism worked.

I really really hope I am wrong about all this, and would be thrilled if 5 years down the line you are telling me how fucking stupid and delusional I was. But I am becoming increasingly pessimistic this will not be the case. Our society is headed down a dark path, and I'm warning you we need a rapid course correction to avert catastrophe.

EDIT: Forgot to attach this article, I think it is worth reading.

"The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money" - Margaret Thatcher
  • Research Associate in Research - Other
Apr 23, 2021 - 3:36pm

You're conflating government action with popular sentiment. McCarthy used the full force of the federal government to force people in front of congress and perform a public spectacle of an inquisition, "Wokeness" is a bunch of people on twitter saying you're an asshole for acting a certain way. These are not the same thing. 

The problem is that guys who wear punisher tshirts and Fox News act as if everyone who is saying "hey, maybe I shouldn't ask the asian kid born in New Jersey where he's REALLY from" is calling for a nationalization of the banks. 

But what happens is that people like OP and all the "Certified Non-finance" people in this thread take an editorial out of the Wellesley College newspaper and act as if every liberal got together and signed it. Like the fucking genius above who thinks that abolishing the constitution is popular among the left because he found an article in New Republic magazine-a publication that sits to the left of Bernie Sanders. It's intellectually lazy and is trash reasoning. Newsflash - Biden won the Democratic primary, not Bernie, not Warren, Biden. So spare me this handwringing. 

Do people on the "woke" side of the spectrum go to far? Absolutely. But acting as if we're all about to start smelting iron in our backyard because someone asked you to stop doing the Apu accent is asinine. 

Relax buddy. All I was asking is do people think it's a fad like McCarthyism was or sth that's here to stay.

90% of you didn't read what I wrote and just went on some political rant. Fucking sad.

Apr 22, 2021 - 4:50pm

I'm hopeful that this is a passing fad. the last progressive era (pre-civil rights movement), this country had a good part of the population take a pro-eugenics stance, and that certainly didn't hold. time will tell, but to whitecollarandsuspenders point, I'm not taking part in the lie.

I also tend to agree with the associate 1 in IB's point of view. republicans gained in the house in 2020, not progressives. Trumpism and woke-ism lost at the ballot box (where it matters), and I'm optimistic the trend could continue in 2022. 

I will say this. since leaving social media entirely, I've not noticed this ideology in personal interactions with people of various races and socioeconomic statuses (stati? idk), so I'm leaning towards to the belief that this is something that some people say, but few actually believe and are willing to make policies about. I wouldn't know it's still going on if it weren't for WSO

Apr 22, 2021 - 9:10pm

I don't think this is a fad; I am 100% confident that reality will eventually smack these foolish idealogues in the face, but the question is how much damage is done to the fabric of our society and civilization before that happens. They won't stop by themselves because their campaign is essentially about power and control, and they always need new villains. But as they march through liberal institutions, they are also laying waste to liberal values of free speech, open debate and cultural tolerance. Imagine the Christian right of the 1990's ("moral majority" and what have you) but ratcheted up by a factor of 3x combined with dominance of institutional power. Unfortunately this is the scenario we find ourselves in.

Honestly the "woke ideology" has become more of a religion for many on the left, with dogmatic beliefs that are impervious to contradiction by logic or evidence. You used to be a good person if you went to church, now you just pretend to be Robin DiAngelo. Whiteness is original sin which you always have to atone for but can never be rid of. No dissent is tolerated; if you don't agree with us, you are a heretic to be excommunicated. It really is a fundamentalist religion of sorts, which is discomforting given what we know about religious conflicts/wars throughout history.

"The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money" - Margaret Thatcher
Apr 23, 2021 - 1:01pm

Plural of status is.... status.

             Sing   Plu

Nom. status  status
Gen. status  statuum
Dat.  statui   statibus
Acc. statum  status
Voc. status  status
Abl.  statu   statibus

You'd use statuum in your sentence if you were speaking in Latin given it'd be a genitive, but given that English unlike German doesn't have cases, then it's comfortably status in accusative.
 

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

  • 2
Apr 22, 2021 - 7:56pm

Yes and no. You should read about the differences between socialism and fascism. In socialism, the government forces companies to do its bidding. In fascism, companies which do the government's bidding are rewarded and those who don't are punished.

Sadly, I see our country heading more and more towards fascism. It's true that no one forces Disney to do this, but is it politically advantageous for them to do so? Absolutely!

Same goes for the big tech companies. You can pretend that they're simply disinterested private companies. Or you can recognize that as companies in very liberal districts, it is advantageous for them to do the bidding of the Democratic Party.

Have you ever asked yourself why tech magically seems to be one of the least regulated sectors of the economy? Not an accident.  You do the bidding of your masters, who love to regulate, and you will be spared. So again....true that they are private companies who can do as they choose.  False that there is not undue influence in the decision from politicians and the government in general.

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Gen
Apr 22, 2021 - 8:02pm

YuknoomCh'een

We live in a capitalist "free-market" society, no? Private companies like Disney can decide if they want to fire an employee for what they deem as hate speech. Not the same as the government doing the blacklisting. 

The McCarthy era Hollywood blacklists were imposed by the private sector and the vast majority were named as communists by private publications. Some were directly named by HUAC and co. Modern analogy would be like AOC retweeting an infographic linking names to the people at that dumb tiki march at Charlottesville, and then the private sector blacklisting them. 

Apr 22, 2021 - 9:01pm

hey guys remember when louis ck played a communist in a film about mccarthyism and then got metoo'd haha classic

Thank you for your interest in the 2020 Investment Banking Full-time Analyst Programme (London) at JPMorgan Chase. After a thorough review of your application, we regret to inform you that we are unable to move forward with your candidacy at this time.
Apr 22, 2021 - 10:15pm

You guys know Trump almost won re-election, Biden beat Bernie, and woke ideas are very largely unpopular in this country? Just because 100 losers like to bike around NYC screaming at cops doesn't mean they have real power. 
 

I say this as a Republican that hates woke bullshit. Desantis will win 2024 and we'll all be fine. 

Apr 23, 2021 - 10:37am

Yet somehow woke ideas are currently shoved down your youth through high school and university education, your military and intelligence swallows them as well, your corporations make special training for all employees out of them and the media pushes them 24/7. Those 100 idiots riding bicycles in NYC are dominating the country.

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

Apr 23, 2021 - 12:55pm

Biden beat Bernie but that is due to generational reasons. The younger generation loves Bernie/AOC

Array

  • Analyst 1 in S&T - Equities
Apr 23, 2021 - 2:21pm

I think that smart and reasonable people on both sides of the aisle are going to be the reason this permeates out of hand. I'm not sure what the answer is, but complete silence (understandable for fear of losing your job and other ramifications) isn't going to help.

I think an example of something that would help. Recently a father, former banker, pulled his daughter from a private school in NYC after hearing and seeing what was going on in the classroom regarding social issues. The parents were also to attend racism training where they were essentially told they were racists. He wrote a letter that was published in a few newspapers and removed his daughter from the school. In the letter he said most of the parents he spoke with are in agreement and are very concerned about what is being taught in the classrooms. To be paying $50k a year to send your children to K-12 and be legitimately afraid of discussing this stuff with the school is the issue. I know it's easy to say "well pull the kid" and go where? This stuff is becoming a serious issue in school. It's nothing new in higher education, but the fact that it begins at the kindergarten level is not good. The fact that the parents can't speak up about it is even worse.

Apr 23, 2021 - 10:35am

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

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