Is work life balance really worth it when you are young?

Definitely very important when you get older and have a family. But I feel like when you are you you should definitely go all out . A lot of people these days don't want to work as hard as other generations did when they were in their 20-30 or even til 40. Would be curious to hear everyone's thoughts.

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Comments (87)

  • Associate 1 in Consulting
Oct 1, 2020 - 3:39pm

This is a forum of mostly bankers. You're going to get a slant towards just grind out 2-4 years bro...

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Cov
Oct 1, 2020 - 3:56pm

People on this forum often make it seem like you sacrifice 2-4 years of work / life balance to then have a job that pays exceptionally well with moderate hours. I think after working for a few years, you quickly realize this isn't the case. The MDs that are bringing in deals at my BB still easily work 70 hours a week, including weekend. They start a few hours before analysts and are often on client / deal related calls until 10pm or later. Before the pandemic, there was also significant travel. The key difference is their work doesn't require being in front of a computer and they have more flexibility in when they want to do it. IMO, you need to really enjoy the job to stay in it long term. Deal-related work will always entail tight deadlines and odd hour calls that require MDs attention. 

Oct 1, 2020 - 4:14pm

I'm starting out at an exit opp (think corp dev, CVC, etc) for EB banks because I didn't get into IB. I'm nervous about the pretty low hours which may put me behind my peers in banking, would you say having the banking background vs starting straight out of college at my firm would have an advantage or vice versa

Oct 2, 2020 - 7:52pm

You almost got it except even your descirption of rainmaker MD's is not fully accurate. MD"s bringing in substantail fee's are even LESS flexible than their analyst counterparts. once covid is over they need to travel and meet face to face. they ALWAYS need to be aware of the next compettior banker over that'll move in on a potential idea, pitch a lower cov agreement for a lev fin deal etc.

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Oct 3, 2020 - 1:54pm

I agree with that... the nature of the work changes as you climb the ladder, but the hours never get better. It's lifestyle and you shouldn't be in this industry unless you genuinely enjoy it.

  • Analyst 3+ in IB-M&A
Oct 1, 2020 - 3:57pm
:

Is work life balance really worth it when you are young?

As a 25 years old virgin (no kiss) I'm asking myself the same question, but I think my answer differs from yours.

  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Oct 5, 2020 - 5:17pm

If you work in banking, then you got enough cash to hire a professional. So, no excuses on never been kissed. 

Controversial
Oct 6, 2020 - 1:40pm

Let it be known that you are not alone in this, brother.

I'm convinced this is the main reason right wing populism and people like Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson are popular.

"I don't know how to explain to you that you should care about other people."

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Oct 1, 2020 - 4:02pm

There isn't one correct answer. Depends on the person. Depends on your interests.

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Oct 1, 2020 - 5:35pm

Having run the IB gauntlet - I firmly believe that really focusing on your career for 2-5 years out of college sets you up exceptionally well for the rest of your career.  You still need to have balance - lifetime of work is a marathon, not a sprint and a ton of people burn out. 

Also - its pretty uncommon for MDs to be working 70 hours, as some analyst said.  Just because MDs are emailing early (kids are usually early risers) and taking calls late doesnt mean I was just sitting at a desk all the time in between.    

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  • Analyst 2 in IB - Cov
Oct 2, 2020 - 1:29am

yeah i mean it's easier when you're younger but that shit still sucks when you can't date, can't make concrete plans, friendships fall apart because you all never see each other, can't even watch tv at night unless you want to be up until 2 or 3 am to catch up on your latest episode. i came into my analyst program thinking i was ready to make major personal sacrifices for money and career advancement and realized a year in, no i'm not. 

Oct 2, 2020 - 3:00pm

The only thing that bothers me about working long hours is not being able to keep up with exercise and fitness. Other than that, I don't feel like I'm missing out on much. Most of my friends at 22-25 spend their free time going to bars and restaurants. Big deal. I did enough of that in college and I'd rather spend these years getting a jump start on my career.

Oct 3, 2020 - 11:50am

People who would say this do not know what IB hours would do to their health, friendships, relationships etc. 2 years in IB doesn't always translate into a great career, but it will almost always mean your health takes a toll and your friends start to make plans without you. You become this soulless person with no hobbies. Heck, you won't even have time to watch a movie or read a good book sometimes so you become this boring fk who only cares about their next bonus check

Not even just the hours but also this culture of people being dic*s to each other. So you not only have the physical but also mental stress.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
Oct 3, 2020 - 1:43pm

^This. I know an individual that spent his college years vying for a job in IB and got one, at the expense of a social life/quality time with friends. He has absolutely no real hobbies, and can only really talk about finance and exit opps. His mindset was always to grind now and reap the benefits later. But he's a year in working very long hours with his firm (which has a brutal culture, according to this site), he still has no social life, still a virgin, and has become a very bitter and insecure person. He justifies this by pointing at the amount of money he makes/expects to be making in a couple years - as if money will buy friendships (or maybe it does, idk). But deep down, however, he's upset about his lack of genuine relationships and if he continues going down this path, his only "friends" will be people who are interested in his money. I respect his grind, but I don't think he really considered the toll it'll take on his personal life.    

My point in relaying this is that work-life balance absolutely is important. You should continue to grind and chase good opportunities, but not at the expense of your health, family and friends. What good is having a huge bank account if you're alone? How you make it work is up to you - personally, I think it comes down to time management. If time permits, block out 1-2 hrs a day to either to go to the gym, read a book, listen to a podcast, go for a long walk, etc. And on weekends try to make it a point to connect with friends or focus on personal hobbies. Make sure you're taking care of yourself and your mindset, make sure you're content, and everything else will fall into place.   

Oct 6, 2020 - 1:13pm

Regardless if IB sets you up well for a career, it's hard to argue that IB doesn't set you up well for life financially. Even if you're in the bottom 40% of the department, three years of IB should net >$100K in savings by 25. If you invest that into a S&P 500 ETF, it should be near $1.1M by the time you are 60.  

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Oct 7, 2020 - 11:07am

Agree with @Your boy Blue" , do a simple IRR and you know cash in today better than I dunno. What was that alternative again? Wine & dine with the 22-25s? Who didn't even have enough to tip the waiter by the way or maybe they just looking in to freeload on the cash IB bankers could make (people who probably could not wine & dine the same place as you). Whats the point of this again? I mean the cash-inflow in this early stage of the career is already that inherent benefit. N well health is truly your own responsibility. No one would care for you, if you don't care for your own body yourself in the first place. N that holds true for every profession.

Oct 7, 2020 - 11:03am

Agree with JAB123 , you just need to stay healthy to continue the motivation. If you are into this, then you are into this. All these nonsense about not grinding is just TWOT. What balance would you be looking at when all your peers that did matter was busy grinding away making the right networks and the right contacts to do a business that matters and then by the age of 28 be busy signing MoUs with different institutions to run different things? Spend more time with the peers that did not matter, who wine & dine and spend everything and realise by 30, achieved nothing? Don't get me wrong, I respect all preceding legends who only made empires at 40 and above, but lets face it. Life is short. N if you have the dream to achieve, this can be 1 of it, it can be any other way, but you rather be grinding and doing your BEST projects when you are young and energetic. 0 conviction & perseverance gives 0 returns by the way, regardless of how talented you are.

Oct 2, 2020 - 3:35pm

This whole older generations worked so much harder is Boomer BS. No one was slaving 100 hours a week in high finance 40-50 years ago, they practically couldn't they didn't have the tech. Facts don't really care about boomer feelings and they're clear, people work more now for less than they received before. Which makes sense... because capitalism and globalization always benefit the owners of ... capital... not labourers. 

Is grinding away worth it? Who knows, it's a bet like everything else. All I know is you probably won't be upset you spent more time with friends/family vs. grinding away for 100 hrs a week. But what do I know I'm just slavin' away so I'm sure I'm overstating the alternative. 

Oct 2, 2020 - 6:53pm

CanadianEnergyBanker

This whole older generations worked so much harder is Boomer BS. No one was slaving 100 hours a week in high finance 40-50 years ago, they practically couldn't they didn't have the tech. Facts don't really care about boomer feelings and they're clear, people work more now for less than they received before. Which makes sense... because capitalism and globalization always benefit the owners of ... capital... not labourers. 

Is grinding away worth it? Who knows, it's a bet like everything else. All I know is you probably won't be upset you spent more time with friends/family vs. grinding away for 100 hrs a week. But what do I know I'm just slavin' away so I'm sure I'm overstating the alternative. 

this. +SB

I used to do Asia-Pacific PE (kind of like FoF). Now I do something else but happy to try and answer questions on that stuff.
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Oct 7, 2020 - 11:14am

Yup. Total BS. The same BS they feed people in the B4 firms. All them upper echelons talking bull. FULL BULL Its not even a half-a$$ed bull. Its full bull. Period. Simple math. What was the level of the index again back in I dunno, say 1970? N how much the index again today? Wow, hope that gives you realisation #1.
#2: how many transactions again in 1970? Oh wait, lets chat up the S&T floor friend we just made. Oh how many transactions you're looking at today? OH WOW, Bobby didn't know it either.
Of course the BOOM BOOM super bass boys will tell ya, "HEY U GUYS GOT LAPTOPS, I USED TO DO THESE STUFF ON A STRING, WITH BOOKS N WHITEBOARDS, PENCIL PAPER" Bla bla bla yea yea. They're known to be just plain cocky guys who thinks they been through alot. Tough guy was talking about a deal the size of a peanut (they will quote inflation) $ 10 million for majority stake vs $5billion for a 20% stake today. But if you use the slightest, simplest modelling mind in the world n factor all these stuff into a financial model, you'll still see that they did pretty much small stuff and then get bragging rights just cause they were born 35 years earlier. Example, "I SET UP THE FIRST SYSTEM IN THE WORLD FOR 1 OF THE EARLIEST BANK IN THE WORLD". Wow, do clap and respect your elders. Its only a humane value but do me a favour, don't go beyond that initial respect. Look forward. Think forward. Act forward. If you're so overly annoyed hey, kill them. Unfortunately, we don't have that kind of power unless we start crowdfunding for a power struggle here, but hey who am I kidding.
Its a lifecycle and we're not communists. Most of all, respect your elders.

Oct 10, 2020 - 12:09am

Ericthebarbarian

Yup. Total BS. The same BS they feed people in the B4 firms. All them upper echelons talking bull. FULL BULL Its not even a half-a$$ed bull. Its full bull. Period. Simple math. What was the level of the index again back in I dunno, say 1970? N how much the index again today? Wow, hope that gives you realisation #1.
#2: how many transactions again in 1970? Oh wait, lets chat up the S&T floor friend we just made. Oh how many transactions you're looking at today? OH WOW, Bobby didn't know it either.
Of course the BOOM BOOM super bass boys will tell ya, "HEY U GUYS GOT LAPTOPS, I USED TO DO THESE STUFF ON A STRING, WITH BOOKS N WHITEBOARDS, PENCIL PAPER" Bla bla bla yea yea. They're known to be just plain cocky guys who thinks they been through alot. Tough guy was talking about a deal the size of a peanut (they will quote inflation) $ 10 million for majority stake vs $5billion for a 20% stake today. But if you use the slightest, simplest modelling mind in the world n factor all these stuff into a financial model, you'll still see that they did pretty much small stuff and then get bragging rights just cause they were born 35 years earlier. Example, "I SET UP THE FIRST SYSTEM IN THE WORLD FOR 1 OF THE EARLIEST BANK IN THE WORLD". Wow, do clap and respect your elders. Its only a humane value but do me a favour, don't go beyond that initial respect. Look forward. Think forward. Act forward. If you're so overly annoyed hey, kill them. Unfortunately, we don't have that kind of power unless we start crowdfunding for a power struggle here, but hey who am I kidding.
Its a lifecycle and we're not communists. Most of all, respect your elders.

Bro. Lay off the addies. 

Oct 7, 2020 - 4:16pm

The thing that angers me most about boomers is they either spent like crazy and can't retire or refuse to. Just got off a call with an executive team that should all have been wearing cardigans and chewing werther's original. The whole time I was just thinking "good god, can I please speak to someone under the age of 65 that is actually sharp and can move at a decent pace". I hate to be an agist dick, but for the most part, boomers have outlived their usefulness. Retire already!

Oct 2, 2020 - 3:37pm

In short, no, work life balance should be the least of your priorities early in your career. You don't want to work long hours for the sake of it but the name of the game when you're young is getting as much optionality as you can. The jobs that set you up to call the shots later on in your career (as in let YOU, not your employer, not circumstances, choose if you want a less demanding job or continue on a lucrative career path for the employer of choice) are most likely going to involve long hours. If you get burned out as an analyst you can pivot to something less demanding that still pays well. If you've been in a job with cushy hours but hasn't given you meaningful experience or a recognized employer on your resume it is extremely hard to pivot to a better job that will lay the foundation for your career. You will be as I put it, stuck and fucked. This is a very coming phenomenon in say back office where people just stay until they get laid off even though they hate their jobs because their job provides zero transferable and valued skills so they can't leave. It's actually really sad.

Oct 2, 2020 - 3:53pm

"A lot of people these days don't want to work as hard as other generations did when they were in their 20-30 or even til 40" really? That's not what I've seen at all

Money can purchase freedom, if you have the guts to buy it

Most Helpful
Oct 2, 2020 - 5:33pm

Contrarian here, in the 45-50 hour / week club. + CFA studying in own time but that doesn't count. In the past few years since graduating I've learned to ski and snowboard, made many strong friendships, started playing golf, got my handicap under 20 playing golf, and maintained what I would say is a pretty good level fitness. And on top of all that, I get to spend plenty of time with a chick who means the world to me. Not sure I would've been able to do all of that had I gone down other paths. 

Sure, I definitely don't have the disposable income many on this site do.. but.. I cover my expenses comfortably and more than that I have the time to do pretty much whatever I want to do, whenever I want to do it (apart from heli skiing every weekend). Girlfriend wants to take a long weekend and go camping in Yosemite or Big Sur, sure why not. Buddies want to take a week to go to Jackson Hole, I'm there. Backpack a couple weeks in Thailand, check. Add in more weekend trips than I can count.. lot of quality evenings spent with the significant other.. and I'm pretty (completely?) content. 

Might not work for the majority here, but different strokes for different folks. Y'all might grind your life away and hey more power to you if you choose that path.. but, there will come a time where the marginal dollar earned has a diminishing return and the stress + time commitment required just might not be worth it.   

Oct 2, 2020 - 7:09pm

EatClenTrenHard

Contrarian here, in the 45-50 hour / week club. + CFA studying in own time but that doesn't count. In the past few years since graduating I've learned to ski and snowboard, made many strong friendships, started playing golf, got my handicap under 20 playing golf, and maintained what I would say is a pretty good level fitness. And on top of all that, I get to spend plenty of time with a chick who means the world to me. Not sure I would've been able to do all of that had I gone down other paths. 

Sure, I definitely don't have the disposable income many on this site do.. but.. I cover my expenses comfortably and more than that I have the time to do pretty much whatever I want to do, whenever I want to do it (apart from heli skiing every weekend). Girlfriend wants to take a long weekend and go camping in Yosemite or Big Sur, sure why not. Buddies want to take a week to go to Jackson Hole, I'm there. Backpack a couple weeks in Thailand, check. Add in more weekend trips than I can count.. lot of quality evenings spent with the significant other.. and I'm pretty (completely?) content. 

Might not work for the majority here, but different strokes for different folks. Y'all might grind your life away and hey more power to you if you choose that path.. but, there will come a time where the marginal dollar earned has a diminishing return and the stress + time commitment required just might not be worth it.   

This (as well). +SB

Different strokes for different folks. The grass is always greener on the other side.

Personally I have traveled to a ton of places, done a bunch of stuff, made lots of great friends etc. That took time, energy and effort. And that's time I had because I was not grinding 100 hour weeks. What was the price of that? Frankly, it was making less money. A lot less money. Are there times when I look at some of my peers from college who are/were no smarter or accomplished than I was, who are MD/Partner/Sr. PM and minting it that I am envious and re-consider my decisions? ABSOLUTELY.

But them I talk to them and see most of them have done the exact same thing since college, or subtle variations of it. They haven't left their geography in years unless it's to some 2 day conference in London or Tokyo or a harried roadshow before flying back and few have lifelong friends or interests from post college/MBA. And this is nothing against them. They just have not had the TIME to develop those relationships or interests or travel places. Some of them are happy as clams and that's seriously awesome. Some of them are lonely and literally don't know how to talk about anything but work, the odd sports things or reminisce about college. But I have realized that the IB/PE whatever grind was not for me. And that's cool too.

A bit off topic but responding to some above about MDs and working hours...Those of you who think MDs have it easy since they don't work as many hours etc, need to think really hard. Why? Because once you are an MD, you HAVE to produce PnL (ie generate revenue/close deals) for the bank. Doing excel, or running execution is not enough. Not only is the competition usually fierce since IB services are a commodity and corporates/sponsors/other clients know it, but there will also be pressure at the bank from others who want to take said MD's job, or be his/her boss or whatever. All of this while trying to support the family the MD (may have), like paying a mortgage, putting kids through school etc and watching your back for snakes internally AND trying to read the tea leaves of upper management (and hopefully having some sponsors up there and hoping they are well positioned)... Are there MDs that live off of the brand name of the bank? Yep. More than one can count. But that means the bank knows that too and it means that the MD is probably expendable. Not every MD is a BSD (those days are generally over and have been for years)...

So combine frequent travel, family pressures, work pressure and internal politics...not to mention market pressures... If markets tank and clients don't do deals and you aren't well connected/politicked and/or a super star erm, good luck. So you are out of a job, that you never really liked anyhow. You have a lot of expense line items and you are seen by many as "too senior" or "too expensive" to make a jump. Or have to move down market. Or. Or.. Bank decides to cut banking as a business significantly and move into asset management? Your sponsors in upper management are gone or can't protect you. Ooops.

Apologies for the ramble.

I used to do Asia-Pacific PE (kind of like FoF). Now I do something else but happy to try and answer questions on that stuff.
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Oct 3, 2020 - 12:09am

I've just been lurking on this thread as I've been grappling with this same conundrum these past few days. The commenter who talks about relationships, experiences and a 45-50 hour job seems to be describing a live that fits within the parameters described in the Yale course "The Science of Well-Being" (which also states one should rethink a career in finance or consulting, so not completely accurate).

That being said, I don't really view the long hours in banking as work since you're getting fed with a pretty substantial meal allowance (you could get a Thai red curry chicken with spring rolls for $25 on grubhub). You sacrifice time you have the freedom to dictate what you want to do in exchange for money and directions on what to do. I'm someone who likes getting directions, I like to give up control of my own life to an authority figure who will tell me what to do. I guess in the end to each their own, but I can't decide if I should do what I personally think I should do (which include things I have thought I should do like smoke too much weed, play video games for way too long or buy 3.5 grams of coke, and have been bad ideas), or if I should do what is recommended by an entire course backed by a multitude of data on how to live well.

Oct 5, 2020 - 11:10pm

I sure hope you didn't go to Yale because that second paragraph is an absolute headache to read. I have virtually no idea what you're trying to say.

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  • Prospect in ER
Oct 3, 2020 - 12:44pm

Goals as fuck, fitting user name too haha. Glad to read stuff like this, this is really what I want my life to be like after college. What good is money if you can't enjoy it especially with a girl you love. 

Oct 10, 2020 - 5:40pm

EatClenTrenHard

Contrarian here, in the 45-50 hour / week club. + CFA studying in own time but that doesn't count. In the past few years since graduating I've learned to ski and snowboard, made many strong friendships, started playing golf, got my handicap under 20 playing golf, and maintained what I would say is a pretty good level fitness. And on top of all that, I get to spend plenty of time with a chick who means the world to me. Not sure I would've been able to do all of that had I gone down other paths. 

Sure, I definitely don't have the disposable income many on this site do.. but.. I cover my expenses comfortably and more than that I have the time to do pretty much whatever I want to do, whenever I want to do it (apart from heli skiing every weekend). Girlfriend wants to take a long weekend and go camping in Yosemite or Big Sur, sure why not. Buddies want to take a week to go to Jackson Hole, I'm there. Backpack a couple weeks in Thailand, check. Add in more weekend trips than I can count.. lot of quality evenings spent with the significant other.. and I'm pretty (completely?) content. 

Might not work for the majority here, but different strokes for different folks. Y'all might grind your life away and hey more power to you if you choose that path.. but, there will come a time where the marginal dollar earned has a diminishing return and the stress + time commitment required just might not be worth it.   

+1. i work in sales and i'm usually well above target. this year by nearly 300%. being able to keep limited hours, work from anywhere, and take vacations whenever is a pretty nice perk. i had do deal with some sales stuff on vacation once but I can usually just hand things off to support and they'll handle. you don't have to work 100 hour weeks or even work in finance to make banker-level cash.

  • Prospect in ER
Oct 2, 2020 - 9:42pm

I personally just want a cushy 9-5 job after college. I wouldn't want to waste my prime years just to enjoy my money later on. You can't even get your dick up or stand up without hurting your knee after you're 40+ 

Oct 3, 2020 - 11:27am

Given the current environment I don't think cushy 9-5 jobs are hiring anymore.

Also ER is far from 9-5...

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  • Incoming Analyst in IB - Cov
Oct 2, 2020 - 10:39pm

I'll start by saying that my philosophy on this matter is "to each his own."

I think the answer to OP's question depends on how OP wants to live his life. In the case of the best answer, that commenter seems very satisfied with his life, having gone a different route than IB. In the case of most others on this site who do opt for the long hours in banking, satisfaction may come in other forms, and perhaps some find appeal in that type of lifestyle or they enjoy a cushy position a little later down the road after the initial grind. Whatever you choose, as long as you are content with it, I would consider it to be a successful choice. 

The only thing I would add that bothers me is when people take a very near-sighted view of things and choose to party/waste away their early years. No, I'm not condemning parties, socializing or having fun. I just disagree with people who cash in up front and then get off on the wrong foot. You are in your early twenties, which means you are in your prime -- this is the peak point in your life to increase knowledge, experience and relationships. My approach has always been to grind now, and take my foot off the gas to enjoy life at a slower pace later, but again, to each his own. 

Oct 3, 2020 - 1:06pm

I see where you're coming from but none of us knows if we'll reach our 40th or even 30th birthday. I would hate to be on my deathbed knowing that I spent my entire life trying to build a future that never came.  Imo it's important to have some things in life you enjoy. Admittedly, taking this from a scenario analysis perspective the probability of early death is low so the expected return from a person who grinds early on is still far higher than the dude who takes the easy route. That's why I think the answer to this question really depends on personal preference. There are also probably people who enjoy 100 hour weeks.

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Oct 4, 2020 - 12:43pm

You know life is very precious. 4 people I knew in college has past away all under 30. Makes me feel weird.

Greed is Good!
Oct 3, 2020 - 1:30pm

I'll hit it from both sides of your question since I've experienced both. But I think the order that you experience them in matters for a lot of reasons I won't elaborate on unless asked.

Sacrifice side: Straight out of university I was put under a rainmaker (he made between 2-3m a year) and was working 70-90hrs on average with high demands. Everyone in the office drove a sports car or luxury vehicle (all the way up to high end Bentley) while I took the train to work. Grinded and it fucking sucked. But through watching the rainmaker I learned how to communicate, persuade and act around people of importance. Those skills opens doors for a lifetime.

Balance side: I now casually work 30-60 hours a week - based on my preference - doing data analytics. I earn between 125k - 250k and have the most relaxed life I've ever had. I can honestly say I would not have the skills (mostly soft but some hard) to be where I am now if I did not endure the front end sacrifice. I compare my experience, while rare, to folks who did not make front-end sacrifice and they generally make average incomes, living average lives with expected trajectories. Do you want that? Happy for you if you do but that's not for me.

To directly answer the question: No, it is not worth the balance at the early stage. Why would it be? You have no money or skills (read: optionality) and you have a mediocre trajectory if you don't build those with your youthful energy. You can choose your own adventure, a better adventure, later. I'd personally rather choose which doors I want to walk through than be limited to what I have to walk for any number of reasons.

Obviously I value optionality. It also helps that my bet paid off - I still have energy and feel like I can live the life I sacrificed for. However, I admit my view may be a prime example of survivorship bias. I can't imagine I'd say the same thing if I sacrificed and didn't get a positive pay out.

Just had my trade dispute rejected by Schwab for a loss of 35k. This single issue alone should be a gigantic red flag to anyone who trades on their platform.

If they have a system error, and you do not video record your trading (they actually said this), they will not honour their fuck up. Switching everything away from them. Fuck this company.

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Oct 3, 2020 - 2:50pm

When you say 30-60 is it more like 60 with an occasional 30? Or 30 with an occasional 60? Same with the salary. 125k-250k is a massive range lol. What is a typical year like?

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Oct 3, 2020 - 4:13pm

Good questions, I was curious so I looked back. Here's how my hour estimate shook out for the last 12 weeks so you can see why I answered it this way. I've only been able to choose my own pace like this for the last two years, although there is more demand than ever and I find myself handing more and more business away. This year should be around 230 and last year was around 190.
W1: 25
W2: 35
W3: 50
W4: 55
W5: 50
W6: 60
W7: 50
W8: 35
W9: 25
W10: 20 
W11: 40
W12: 25 

Just had my trade dispute rejected by Schwab for a loss of 35k. This single issue alone should be a gigantic red flag to anyone who trades on their platform.

If they have a system error, and you do not video record your trading (they actually said this), they will not honour their fuck up. Switching everything away from them. Fuck this company.

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Nov 7, 2020 - 7:18am

2 years then transitioned straight into data analytics

Just had my trade dispute rejected by Schwab for a loss of 35k. This single issue alone should be a gigantic red flag to anyone who trades on their platform.

If they have a system error, and you do not video record your trading (they actually said this), they will not honour their fuck up. Switching everything away from them. Fuck this company.

  • Analyst 2 in IB-M&A
Oct 3, 2020 - 2:22pm

The issue is a lot of casual/cushy jobs are open only after a couple of years in IB/consulting. My suggestion would be to do a 1-2 year stint to get the brand name / experience and dip to a 40-50hr/week role. 

What I don't suggest is chasing the herd and doing PE - that's a mistake; you likely won't like it if you don't enjoy banking work/hours.

I also did have somewhat of a life during IB - like I couldn't meet my buddies during the week but I managed to go to the gym about 3x/week and go out during the weekends. If you don't care about PE and getting top bucket, you can actually get a solid IB experience whilst not killing yourself completely. 

Nov 6, 2020 - 8:44pm

how do you workout while getting such little sleep? I feel like trash when I don't grt enough sleep and can't work out properly

Array
Oct 6, 2020 - 12:20am

Pretty worth it if you're just talkin the initial 2 years IB/Consulting requires then you can reevaluate if you wanna chase riches with a detriment to your leisure time or walk the corporate 9-5 route. IB hours suck but nothing good ever comes easy lol. 

To live is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering.

Oct 6, 2020 - 1:20am

Completely agree. This generation has become insanely soft with social media promoting a bunch of BS about self-care. Of course you have to find balance and prioritize mental health, but that doesn't mean you can just become a  bum satisfied with working 40 hours a week at 22 but still expecting to become partner at your firm or CEO of the next hotshot startup. 

Life is very binary. You can either go all out and work as hard as you can to achieve the goals you set for yourself. Or you can compromise and decide to prioritize other things in life and make work a small fraction. If you try to go somewhere in the middle, you screw yourself over because you'll never be as successful as the people going all out or as happy as the people who decided to pursue other things in life. You're stuck in a purgatory getting the worst of both worlds. There's nothing wrong with either approach: going all out with work or looking for other things in life. What irritates me are the people who feel entitled to both: few hours working and the ability to reach their ambitious goals. 

Oct 7, 2020 - 11:30am

@Reggie-Arnold" is right. Total BS on the social media. How can you expect different results, if we're not putting all the efforts into it. Social media and Insta is a lie. behind all that beautiful make-up and botox or whatever what not, is hours of set-up doing the make-up on set. Getting the items placed in a particular angle to get a perfect reflection of light and the lighting props and the angle of the camera and the people of the set and the.................dogs n cows went home sorry and subtitles left the room too by the time I finished explaining reality.

Truth is, this is life. So everybody have to wake the F up, and stay in reality. Work hard for your dreams, else don't work at all. But don't go half-way and don't expect freeloading. No one is going to serve riches to you on a silver platter. They lie to you. They said you can just do A, and you get every else from B to Z.

They say meditation helps. Here let me illustrate. Try sitting there and meditating for 8 hours. N you will get a realisation.
So it isn't a lie actually. The benefit is this --> You will realise that money don't go into your bank account if you did nothing but sat there for 8 hours doing jack imagining astral projection.
That my friend, if the benefit. Its called divine realisation.

So wake up and stay woke people, fight hard for your dreams, we're not alone. We all work hard and we will get to our dreams.

Oct 6, 2020 - 12:17pm

I think a lot of people have gotten lost in what banking eventually evolves into over a career vs what your actual question is. "Is it worth it in early years?" The answer is unequivocally yes. The amount you can leapfrog your peers through harder work when you're younger and have more energy is enormous. Perhaps mid-career you end up in a similar role (I think corp dev is a good example for this).  Say you do 2 years in banking and move to corp dev, vs someone who started out in some financial leadership rotational. You will be better and faster at literally everything. You'll be able to produce better work product in less time and have the optionality to keep pushing just as hard. Even if you decide to go buyside, continue grinding for another 2 years and then step back, you will still be much better positioned than your peers who chose an easier path. If you're lucky and smart about it, you end up like my MD. Spending Christmas in St. Lucia with your family while your VP finishes legal doc negotiation for you to swoop in for the close in the new year. 

Oct 6, 2020 - 2:32pm

I think my take on this is it depends what level you are talking about. Working in IBD early in career? Sure, certainly a good idea for a lot of reasons. Working at a sweatshop? Not so sure considering the alternatives (other banks). 

Oct 7, 2020 - 3:03pm

I think it depends on how you grew up... My family worked hard, but didn't make a lot of money and struggled at some points. I want to be in a position where I am able to give back without thinking about how I am going to pay next month's bills. So I am willing to sacrifice my time for a better lifestyle.  It's all about perspective.

Array

  • 4
  • Intern in IB - Gen
Oct 8, 2020 - 3:25am

This is a very western thing to talk about because my middle school in china was from 7:30 am to 10 pm everyday, and 9 hours of outside tutors classes on both weekends....

Asian ppl work hard because it is just the extension of their school life.

Oct 8, 2020 - 2:10pm

A lot of people are in for a rude awakening when they realize banking is still stressful at the senior levels and PE / HF is not this path to nirvana.

Any job paying you an outsized amount of money will be unbelievably stressful.

Oct 10, 2020 - 7:34am

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Oct 10, 2020 - 8:43am

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  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
Oct 10, 2020 - 10:16am

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