JLL or Marcus and Millichap for CRE brokerage?
As the title says, I'm graduating college and am looking to get into CRE brokerage. Currently I have an investment sales offer at Marcus & Millichap (M&M) on a high performing team in a great market and an associate offer at JLL on one of their office or industrial teams, also in a great market.
I've heard the criticisms of M&M and about how working there is very tough but I'm someone who is willing to and in a good position to work hard and not make much on commissions until I establish myself. The team I got offered at told me that typically after a couple years, the ones that make it are making 6 figures + (but they could be blowing smoke up my ass).
On the other hand I've heard great things about working at JLL and I would be making money from a draw until commissions surpassed that amount. I understand that JLL is leasing which is different from M&M and am fine with doing either. I also think JLL is more highly regarded than M&M which is a plus. My only question is if the earnings potential at a firm like JLL is on par with M&M if someone were to be successful at either company.
I'd love to hear some insight from people that have worked at either of these firms or are in the industry on what they think the better opportunity is!
This should be the easiest choice of your life - JLL. I can't think of a single reason why anyone would choose Marcus over JLL, at least entry level. Maybe 10 years down the line if you have your own book of business and M&M offers you some crazy splits & incentives, but until then the choice should be clear.
Given the number of people I have met who left M&M after making $0, I'd guess JLL probably wins this contest......
In all seriousness, you are debating a between a top institutional firm (leasing) vs. a middle market/private client firm (investment sales), for a first job out of UG. There are certain types of people who will do great at an M&M type shop (i.e. die hard cold callers and heavy hustlers), but the vast majority probably would do better at a JLL type firm.
Long-term, if you want an institutional real estate career, JLL is a great place to start. I never worked at M&M so I'm not gonna knock it the way some will, there is a legit world that they serve (and they do have some very legit heavy hitters in many of their offices). Still, for first job, I'd go JLL pretty much every time.
JLL is hot place to be right now
It sounds like the JLL role is leading focused. If it is capital markets / investment sales focused, disregard my comments. But here ya go:
If you want to do leasing-go to JLL. If you want to do investment sales / capital markets - go to M&M. Do what you think you have the interest in. If you’re not gonna enjoy leasing, you’ll quit in 6 months anyway. Do what you want to do - don’t necessarily chase the prestige.
Now: if both are capital markets / investment sales - I would go to JLL unless you really love the M&M team. A draw will make your life easier. Usually the team pays the draw which means it’s out of their own commissions. It’s will incentive them to help you start generating money.
If you can join the IPA team at M&M, that's as good as going to JLL team. If you will be a runner for a broker at M&M calling property owners of dog shit $1-10M assets in a portion of a submarket, I would say run the hell away. M&M might be hell unless you are ok making 50 to 100 cold calls a day to hear some old douche telling you "they will never sell and they will die owning the property", "the property has been in their family for generations", "they get too many calls from brokers", etc. Make sure you have a sponsor who will help you learn the business and figure out how to drive value to win business. The brokerage game has evolved and you have more resources at JLL for sure but again I really respect the IPA guys I have met across various markets.
JLL. You will learn so much more, and you'll have significantly more opportunities both internally and externally. Don't think too hard about this.
Come join us brotha
This akin to deciding b/t a 2022 Porsche 911 Carrera Cabriolet and a 2006 Hyundai Sonata. Which one would you rather be associated with in terms of professional appearance? Come to think of it, how is this even a question? Branding is important, especially early in ones career. Even if somehow the JLL offer is less than M&M (which I highly doubt), go w/ JLL.
JLL 100%, the name also matters when you're looking to switch to different firms. JLL has a better reputation, probably better people to learn from in the office and will take more time to teach you on a team.
I might be one of the only ones to disagree but I actually started at one of the top M&M teams when I first graduated from uni. Currently in an acquisitions role but I don't think you should completely disregard M&M. Brand name definitely matters especially starting an undergrad job. But to give you a few points of example, I personally know 2-3 rookies/first years at M&M who killed it and grossed $500k their first year. I think one of the larger factors you have to take into consideration is whether you want to give investment sales a try or leasing.
Just to give you the other side there are also kids who started at M&M and others that haven't made money by year 2. I'm currently a broker not at M&M, at the two year mark and haven't made money.
It is very dependent on where you're working and where in the cycle you are. You can make all the calls you want, but owners will have very unrealistic asks so you're not selling anything or things out of your control happen - for example I started in NYC around when the rent laws changed, then Covid hit which completely changed the real estate industry. So just be wary, it's a great way to learn and network, but the expectation is around 1.5-2 years of no income in a GOOD market. Also look at how teams are structured and if these senior guys will really be there to help you/put you on their deals/give you a good split.
You need to be on a team coming from undergrad, people there to support and mentor you. It would be very hard to impossible doing it on your own.
So for example JLL will put you on a team (from what you were offered) with I'm assuming guys that have a history of closing deals but JLL/M&M do both train you so that's good. JLL is more polished and has a way better name recognition than M&M so that helps too opening doors and who you meet on your assignments.
You're right, it is extremely difficult to start off as a broker and I can not agree more on brokerage being very dependent on location and where we are in the economic cycle. It's true that the mass majority of people fail due to many factors including the expectation of making income within the first couple of years.
I think M&M gets such a bad rep because of the larger net they cast in their hiring pool. The firm really expects the junior agents to make over 250-300 calls a week which some may think is crazy. But I think it's normal to expect a large volume of calls at any firm especially if you're dealing with middle market to mom and pop shops. Owners definitely have very unrealistic asks in the market but I think there are always strategies and ways to talk down the sales price with owners. You have to build that strong relationship and cut the bs with clients that you have known for a while. If sellers/owners are giving unrealistic listing prices, you have to talk them down using recent comparables and examples/case studies. I can't tell you how many times I've seen/heard agents give up because owners gave them an unrealistic ask. Those 5-10% of brokers who argue back and cut the bs are the ones that end up sealing the deal with the very same unrealistic owners and these are the brokers that end up gaining more exposure due to potential exchanges/uplegs.
I like your point on making sure you look into how some teams are structured and whether senior guys will help out on deals or give good splits. I think the very most important factor in OP's decision should be the team. Teams like Kunofsky and Mansour are absolute killer groups and would probably be better than any office/industrial team at JLL. Even the IPA teams at M&M are pretty massive now if you look at the West Coast or Midwest teams. I came from a T1 Market too and can vouch for many of the top 20 teams at M&M especially since I've personally seen tons of new rookies/first years making crazy salaries ($150k+) year after year.
M&M folks fuming reading this thread.
I will go against others here and say M&M assuming this is an Analyst role where you will be actually underwriting deals and working on a good team vs thrown in the fire and cold calling.
M&M is not a bad firm by any means. There rep is kind of blown in some ways because the teams that throw kids in the fire to make calls all day outweigh the good ones. Theres solid teams out there specifically Peter’s multi family team in NYC.
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