Just how good is Dartmouth?

Hi everyone, a rising high school senior here. Now, I get that you shouldn't choose a college based on career outcomes and all that, but hear me out. I plan on applying Early Decision to Dartmouth, and being an international student, I will only attend Dartmouth (or any US college really) if it would give me a good chance at NYC IB (Wouldn't make sense to drop $300k there otherwise if I could get an excellent education in my home country for a fraction of the cost). I would very much appreciate it if any current Dartmouth students or alumni could answer my questions.


  1. A lot of people have said that the strength of Dartmouth's alumni network is one of the key reasons it places well, but would this apply to international students? Would Dartmouth alumni be more likely to help out a domestic student from say, Colby, rather than an international student? Would alumni feel the same connection to an international student as they would to a domestic student?

  2. Apparently, Dartmouth's D Plan advantages regarding winter internships aren't possible for international students due to visa issues. Furthermore, since you can't declare a major till the beginning of sophomore year, you won't be able to legally work in the US in the summer after freshman year. Are these true? And if so, how will they affect my chances of landing a FT role?

  3. I plan on doing Restructuring or M&A. How does Dartmouth place for these groups?

  4. What percentage of Dartmouth students aim for IB positions, and what percentage of them land these positions?

  5. Does Dartmouth place exceedingly well at any EBs? I'm aware that Dartmouth does very well at GS, but what about EBs?


Thanks for your time!

 

The only guy I knew who went to Dartmouth ended up in the acquisitions team at Tesla. Not sure what exactly he has been doing there, but I guess that is one successful exit. He is not intl. though and he went there after a few years of experience.

Again, in line with what others have said already: you need the sponsorship first, everything else comes second. Without CPT, OPT, H1b, and then the rest... it wouldn't work. So focus on industries, employers, cultures, people who know how sponsorship works. Nobody can really say which bank will sponsor for which BU in a few years down the line.

 

I understand the sentiment, but I think it's important for me to know as it directly affects where I go to college.

 

Look man it sounds like you are a super motivated kid, and while Dartmouth has a solid IB placement ratio (assuming you get in), the problem will unfortunately 100% be your visa. Its so fucked but requiring sponsorship is such a big disadvantage in the corporate world. I think you are asking the right questions though, however the most important question is how many banks sponsor, because Dartmouth will not close doors, sponsorship will :/  

 

Appreciate the reply! By any chance, are you an international student too? 

 

International student at a target (not W) here

If you are good, you can land basically most top groups - it says you are interested in RX, PJT/HL/EVR RX all take international students. 

Will it be harder? yes, but if you put in the work it can be done

 
Most Helpful

Current Dartmouth  International student here.

The major declaration restriction only applies to the CPT. You could get the OPT instead for the summer after freshman year, but this would cut into your overall OPT which would be reduced by 9 months assuming you intern in the US every summer. Econ is STEM classified at Dart, so you'd still have 3 more months + 2 years of STEM extension left.

The alumni network is very strong, and you won't face any discrimination really. Defo not to the extent that they'd prefer a domestic student from Colby. It's just that if you're not open minded and culturally very different, it might be an issue but you could overcome those easily starting now.  

IB recruiting is awesome, and every subsequent year has students less interested in it, so there isn't much competition really. If you put in the work, you'll land at a good place. There's  2 international 21s starting at PJT M&A and RX respectively. Most banks recruit. Among the EBs, Ik CVP EVR and PJT do. PJT even has a winter internship for Dartmouth students. PE recruiting is where we really shine: arguably no better schools other than Harvard and Wharton. 

The D-Plan issue can be overcome if you're okay with letting your visa expire and reapply, but this is fairly risky and might be impossible for some nationalities.

As others keep saying, half the banks won't even consider internationals for IB but yeah making it is far from impossible. Still, I'd strongly recommend going to a great UK school considering they're way cheaper and there are almost no barriers for international students.  In the US however, your problems dont end after you get an IB gig. Youll still have struggle w H1B and exit opps take a big hit because of that (don't make your choices fixated on anything so narrow rn; for all you know, you might end up hating IB entirely which has a decent probability).

 

Dartmouth '23 here - I think most of the winter internships for Dartmouth students have stopped being offered unfortunately.

 

Are you aware of places that still do winter internships? I get that it could change in a few years, but just for the purpose of reference.

 

No, they still do (as of a year ago) but it’s not “official” anymore in the sense that they’ll post on their website/the career site. Instead, HR will email you directly from a referral or in some cases, reach out to clubs/alums to pass along the opportunity

 

Thank you so much for the detailed response; I'm glad to hear that regarding the alumni network. Also, I take it that the PJT winter internship isn't really open to internationals? Additionally, how big of a risk would it be to let the visa expire and reapply?

 

Dartmouth has the best MF PE placement per capita behind Harvard/Wharton. I don't even go there, just wanna tell you that its pretty top notch.

 

speaking as a fellow international at another ivy, your visa and international status won't be a concern/issue at the top firms like pjt, evercore, moco, goldman sachs, lazard etc. however, for the majority of firms in the tier below i.e. citi, barclays, yes, there will be an issue. in sum, you need to be a very competitive applicant, competitive for the top firms, or you're going to struggle a lot (if you're only competitive for the next tier banks). 

as for dartmouth, i can't speak with much confidence on recruiting scene and placement, but my international friends from dartmouth place well; also, the dartmouth network is very strong and tight-knit (although not as extensive as schools with larger population), even in my country, which is a small country in south east asia

 

‘20 here. In my class, and the ones below and above, have seen the normal historical placement, as in at least one to every top boutique (CVP, PJT, LZD, etc) and BBs. Also see a ton go into industry/product specific boutiques like LionTree, Ducera and Allen, and to MMs like Rothschild, WB, Oppenheimer, Wells, HL, Nomura, etc. Even my (relatively) dumb/lazy friends at least got a MM offer with minimal effort, behind the backs of school prestige, alumni, and culture fit. One thing I noticed, compared to my friends at less common schools (for NYC placement; obviously a great school), like UCLA, the technicals were much less of a focus, often only getting the most basic questions, compared to my friend, who said it was pretty intense.

That being said, IB isn’t very popular anymore. If you’re smart and a top performer, most people at Dartmouth will go MBB consulting or tech instead. We also have a ton who opt to go straight for the buy-side (Another commenter said this, but we probably do have the third best placement rate in the Ivy League [might be due to school population though]) with a lot going to places like BX, Bain, Insight, Silver Lake, WP, VEP, Citadel, P72, SIG, AQR, etc (which are all obviously very different types of firms, but regardless). Also, a ton who go into consulting firms like LEK, OW, etc. Also, you’re seeing a noticeable shift of students who opt to go to NYC instead of Boston and SF, which is surprising.

I don’t think recruiting will be an issue for you, but I have noticed more and more firms not offering sponsorship anymore. Maybe it’ll change due to the new administration, but you should focus on that first.

 

Will add that your point on the increasing popularity of straight to buyside instead of banking first is true for most top schools (broad trend instead of idiosyncratic).  Investment firms (quant, LO, L/S, SS, Credit, MM, SM, you name it) have been focusing on building out their own recruitment pipeline scouting top undergrads. This will likely continue. From my perspective, less and less top students are going into standard BB banking. It's either buyside or tech, while those who want banking are going to EBs (who also have smaller analyst classes). Some top BB groups like GS TMT and MS M&A are holding up well in attracting top talent, but overall the quality of the average student heading to banking seems to be decreasing. 

 

Yeah, completely agreed. I think last year’s graduating class was an outlier (because of a lot of firms closing recruiting pipelines due to COVID and such) but I expect to see a lot less people going to IB unless total all-in comp rises to a level where the lifestyle is worth it. Why would you want to make 140-160K working 80+ hours when you can make 120-140 working in consulting or tech for 40-60 hours or at the very least, have that pay and hours, but on the buy-side and be two years further in your career. That being said, wouldn’t expect top students at top schools to forgo finance in general, as the total earning potential over a career is much higher than consulting or tech, on average.

 

Nihil reiciendis vel eius beatae. Quod rerum sed dolorum. Quo inventore dolor optio velit doloremque quasi.

Adipisci et sequi enim autem quis et quo nihil. Minima aut repudiandae ut distinctio quo quo. Mollitia voluptas voluptatum tenetur incidunt eveniet. Et mollitia eum qui voluptatem ea. Officiis magni ex reiciendis qui in voluptatem aut. Ea quisquam ullam sint consequatur sequi.

 

Fugiat aliquam sunt qui rerum atque ab. Iste consequatur sed quia hic quibusdam minus eum. Incidunt non debitis sit qui aut omnis. Molestiae nesciunt temporibus sit est et ducimus voluptate. Alias minus numquam totam sed. Delectus quasi aspernatur perferendis aperiam harum. Et rerum et exercitationem voluptas.

Dolorem velit voluptatibus alias modi corporis. Facere sed alias dolor vitae rerum. In laboriosam iusto quas minima sapiente itaque cumque. Sunt atque dolores adipisci vitae voluptatibus.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
5
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
6
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.9
7
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
8
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
9
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
10
Jamoldo's picture
Jamoldo
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”