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Comments (67)

Jan 9, 2010 - 11:33pm

wtf is a McKinsey BA? are they owned by McDonalds?

go for deloitte

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Feb 10, 2010 - 10:36am

Dude - you're kidding posting this.

Go McKinsey for sure. Deloitte doesn't do technology - they do INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY. It's just boring systems crap which will give you zero exit opportunities outside of MBA and the Deloitte name isn't bad for MBA but McK is way better. Average MBA from McK is Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, Columbia. Average for Deloitte is Michigan, Stern, Anderson.

Also, Deloitte will send you to more middle of nowhere places. Deloitte's cash cow is A&D not so much cooler industries. They'll do some life sciences or CPG but not really.

Unless you care about packaged crap like SAP, Oracle, which would mean that your aspirations are low - do McKinsey for sure.

Put it this way - half of the technology folks at Deloitte are Indian parents making a good living for their kids. They make an honest salary from 120 - 240k a year depending on year and position. None of them want their kids to get into IT. They send their kids to business school, law school or med school - the former of which will work at strategy firms or IBanks.

You will never work for a McKinsey if you start at Deloitte. Well - its unlikely. You can always go to Deloitte if you start at McKinsey. You don't turn down harvard undeclared for Harvey Mudd engineering.

Feb 11, 2010 - 3:09am

seriously man how do u get these facts? The rankings dont lie, after all they are taken from consultants across the board. You cant compare Harvard/Harvey Mudd to McK/Deloitte, thats a joke... its like apples vs oranges!

Both are great firms, although McK def has a higher prestige, but Deloitte has caught up on that aspect a lot also recently

Feb 10, 2010 - 11:31am

Well Deloitte is #5 in Vault consulting rankings... so I wouldn't be surprised...

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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:39am

Deloitte is a great company and it's not as bad as a lot of people on this board make it out to be. It is one of the largest and best consultancies, and their employees tend to be very happy. But if you have a choice between Deloitte and McKinsey, McK definitely takes the cake. You will learn more at McK, and the exit opportunities will be better.

Feb 10, 2010 - 4:11pm

^ #5 is no mediocre, #5 is good.

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Feb 10, 2010 - 7:41pm
PiperJaffrayChiang:
^ #5 is no mediocre, #5 is good.

I think everyone knows the rankings are a joke. Deloitte scores highly because of "employee satisfaction". It's like asking whether a human or a goldfish is more satisfied in a bowl of water. Mediocre people have lower expectations and therefore higher satisfaction.

Feb 11, 2010 - 6:12am

The rankings do lie. The methodology is amateurish. There's positive correlation between size of the firm, and highness of rank.

I don't think anyone actually in the industry (and the same is true for IB and Law too) puts any stock in the rankings at all.

Best Response
Feb 11, 2010 - 10:43am

It's not apples and oranges because at the end of the day - everyone wants the best exit opportunities.

If you're a Deloitte BTA, you'll be doing packaged solution stuff. Like I said, half of the Deloitte Technology folks are Indian parents that would NEVER want their kids to do the same thing. TRUST me on this.

The culture is something entirely different. I really enjoyed being a Deloitte BTA. It was a lot of fun, learned a lot and honestly, I probably liked the people at Deloitte more than I would like the people at McK. Deloitte is a fratty culture, people eat, drink and are merry. But McK has a much better name. I don't know what your'e talking about Harvard people going to Deloitte because I never met one Harvard person while there. I met Wharton's and Stanfords - but also those people are on the strategy side and not the IT side. (most of them) The OP wants to be a Deloitte BTA. The rankings most of you are talking about are strategy consulting. Deloitte for IT consulting is a much different animal and much more boring work. The little strategy work I did at Deloitte was fun but short. Deloitte is actually top 3 in IT consulting so if its rankings you're concerned with, then Deloitte IT consulting is actually ranked better than Deloitte strategy consulting.

You won't be able to jump from IT to strategy unless you've got big Partners / Directors backing you up. It will probably hurt your promotion track and you'll get people asking questions about you - questions that will be uncomfortable to answer. If you're really into technology, go do Google, Microsoft, Apple or a firm in the valley. Deloitte IT stuff is pretty boring.

Everyone here is talking about rankings and stuff but you're going as a BTA not a BA. Even at Deloitte, BA's will give you crap for being a BTA because they feel superior.

Deloitte is split up into Strategy and Ops, Technology and Human Capital.

Strategy and Ops - these are Deloitte BA's. work is comparable to MBB. Honestly, most people here are really smart and most people here are from Business school. You'll see a lot of Berkeley, Anderson, Michigan, McCombs etc type school people here. The work is more exciting - really big into Fridays in the office. No project will be more than 3 months if you're a BA. I think people here are taken care of a little more. The focus for BA's here is business school. The firm grooms you for Business school and if that's your hope, then I think Deloitte does a good job of it. When you're about to apply for Business school and apply for something known as GSAP, you give a presentation to a partner about why MBA, why now and why it will help you. It's pretty impressive the amount of support that the BA program provides. People in this group are comp'ed more too. Starting out as BA's its the same - but when you compare a senior consultant in Strategy vs. senior consulting in Technology - it's a big difference.

Human Capital is HR consulting. These are Deloitte HCA's. Depending THey will do change mgmt, learning, training, they'll do work leading up to becoming an actuary. I've heard mixed reviews. But, this group bills what they work meaning, if they work 10 hours, they'll bill 10 hours.

Technology - These are Deloitte BTA's divided into different groups. They used to differentiate package solution people with IT architecture people and custom solutions people but now they're all lumped into one group. Let me generalize this group.

SAP = Boring - no exit opportunities besides MBA or continuing SAP stuff.
Oracle = Boring - no exit opportunities besides MBA or continuing SAP stuff.
Emerging Solutions = OK - if you're lucky enough to be here, you might get some interesting work and you'll have more exit opportunities. Just don't get stuck on the packaged solutions stuff here.
Technology Architecture / all the other Technology Integration stuff - could be better depending on which sub group you're in.

I'm telling you, honestly that you won't have a say into which group you're in. If you're put into SAP and I really don't know what people do outside of SAP or leave for Bschool. Furthermore, because its an IT route, the firm doesn't really support this as much as the BA's going to bschool. Meaning, the firm intentionally designs BA's to only work on projects for 3 months max so then they have a wide array of experience for business school. BTA's -- if you're unlucky, you can be pigeonholed into one project for a LONG time. I know BTA's that have been on the same project for 2 years. It's a little rarer, but it happens a lot esp if you're near a big implementation site.

See, there's a real disparity between BA's and BTA's. I really didn't like this because my aspiration was Business school and I didn't get half the support that my BA business school hopefuls received. There isn't a presentation you give and very very few people on the technology side have MBA's. In fact, many people from the technology side frown upon it. The technology leadership has a limited amount of MBA's. More on the emerging solutions side because that involves more strategy work. There are a few big name partners / directors with MBA's from top schools, but again, very few. The few I know are on the Emerging solutions side and only one on the SAP side.

That's the no bs reality of it.

I think Deloitte is a great place and have nothing but great experiences from it. But, I'm telling you if what you want to do is not packaged solutions consulting, I say you go with the McKinsey offer.

Feb 11, 2010 - 1:54pm

Oh now I agree with you.. I thought you were comparing their strategy groups.. my bad! Ya BTA can be a bit boring according to some of my friends, but some other people in S&O say that their work is comparable to MBB...

Feb 11, 2010 - 12:21pm

Cool, thanks for all the advice. I've decided to dive head-first into the world of high-stakes IT consulting with a stint as a BTA at Big D. I'm really passionate about SAP and working with their wonderful array of products has never before seemed so possible.

Feb 11, 2010 - 4:50pm

kenneth, where do deloitte consulting people generally exit to? what bschools?

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Feb 12, 2010 - 6:57pm

If your question is in regards to strategy people - S&O will be like Kellogg, Booth, Tuck, Ross, Anderson, Haas these type of schools. The top people will do Harvard, Stanford or Wharton, but its rarer. Stanford is significantly lower for some reason or another. The firm puts out a PPT on % yield at each schol with every school being admission significantly higher than the natioanl average with the exception of Stanford.

If you're talking about technology people. It'll be a rung lower - Darden, McCombs, Stern, Fuqua.

Please know that if you're technology, the firm isn't really a huge fan of you going to MBA. They won't really work with you that much so you can go to MBA. On the other hand, if you're strategy you will be groomed to get into a top MBA. GMAT is up to you, but the firm gives discounts and has GMAT classes in the firm office.

Deloitte Strategy is really growing. While no MBB, its pretty good.

HCAP people will fit in the middle there below S&O but higher than technology.

At Deloitte typically the thought is

Manager = Director at Fortune 500 firm
Senior MAnager = Low level VP at Fortune 500 firm
P/D = High level VP at Fortune 500 firm.

Feb 15, 2010 - 11:37pm

Seriously, what a joke! How can you say a firm is shit when its ranked so highly? (I know compared to MBB it is second tier, but look at its progression recently). I think you carry a grudge against Deloitte (prob. they didnt offer you an interview?) The statement "Everyone I know at Deloitte hate their job, though." gives evidence of that...

Feb 16, 2010 - 3:06am

Dear ibanker88,

I never applied to Deloitte as I could aim for something better. I did not say that it is shit in itself, only compared to MBB, which it definitely is.

As mentioned, tech consulting is seldom a very fulfilling job, and I wouldn't personally do audit. As for "strategy" consulting, the truth is that Deloitte/PwC/... compete with MBB on assignments by offering a huge discount on their billing. If a junior consultant costs, say, 3000 per day at MBB, it'll cost 2000 at Deloitte.

Feb 16, 2010 - 10:23am
maxc:
Dear ibanker88,

I never applied to Deloitte as I could aim for something better. I did not say that it is shit in itself, only compared to MBB, which it definitely is.

As mentioned, tech consulting is seldom a very fulfilling job, and I wouldn't personally do audit. As for "strategy" consulting, the truth is that Deloitte/PwC/... compete with MBB on assignments by offering a huge discount on their billing. If a junior consultant costs, say, 3000 per day at MBB, it'll cost 2000 at Deloitte.

In reality of course, it's the different billing rates that mean they don't compete. Deloitte get used for more routine, mediocre projects because they're cheap, whilst the high-end, challenging projects go to MBB. Even though they're both supposedly "strategy" consulting, the type of projects they work on are really quite different.

Feb 16, 2010 - 1:12pm

The rates might be slightly lower, but that means that you are doing the same work (If MBB bids and loses, it means they wanted the project but were charging too high, implying the work is the same). And since when is billing lower a sign of being shit? It just means having business sense to take market share in a very competitive market...pure Economics

Feb 16, 2010 - 1:45pm
ibanker88:
The rates might be slightly lower, but that means that you are doing the same work (If MBB bids and loses, it means they wanted the project but were charging too high, implying the work is the same). And since when is billing lower a sign of being shit? It just means having business sense to take market share in a very competitive market...pure Economics

Pure economics? Please, maybe refresh your 101.

Demand for MBB is greater than demand for Deloitte, therefore MBB can charge higher prices than Deloitte. Demand for MBB is greater because MBB are better.

And this supports my argument about project differentiation. The difference in quality between MBB and Deloitte is less apparent on easier projects; Deloitte can do them to a similar standard to MBB. On hard projects the difference in quality is more apparent. Therefore, demand for MBB is not significantly greater on easy projects, but is significantly greater on hard projects. Therefore, assuming prices are constant regardless of project difficulty, MBB tend to do hard projects, and Deloitte tend to do easy projects.

Pure economics.

Feb 16, 2010 - 2:46pm

if you really don't think billing lower doesn't suggest inferior quality - then what's your take of Indian IT firms taking work from Deloitte, ACN and IBM at $90 / hr per head and putting their people in at motel 6?

There's a reason they can bill lower ...

Feb 16, 2010 - 10:24pm

oh, god. the implementation argument. Look, Deloitte's a good firm and I think you get some hands-on experience there that you wouldn't at MBB. But implementation projects are some of the worst known to mankind. They're largely big corporate snarls that require minimal strategy work, and a lot of tedious benchmarking and readouts. There's a reason that MBB avoid those sorts of engagements and focus on strategic recommendations rather than "OK, keep this mill open, close that mill, layoff those workers..."

Feb 17, 2010 - 7:49am

Agree with mmonkey.

Monitor, OW, etc. are a league ahead of Deloitte. For the same reason as the "pure economics" post I made further up. They do proper high-end strategy work.

As for hard evidence...

The Vault rankings are messed up because size of firm is correlated with highness of rank. The ranking methodology is systematically biased against the smaller strategy houses.

The demographics of graduate intake show M, OW etc. to be better too. They have almost identical demographics to MBB, recruiting almost exclusively at the top few Ivys. Deloitte doesn't, they recruit from lesser schools.

Personal experience. I have found the people at Deloitte to be more mediocre, their cases bland, the whole place is just frankly average.

Feb 17, 2010 - 9:30am

What type of schools does Monitor recruit from?

I know OW recruits from Stanford and people go. Deloitte will take some misinformed BTA's that were majoring in like symbolic systems or some type of engineering from Stanford but I don't know of that many strategy people going to Deloitte out of stanford - I know MBAs.

For strategy - Deloitte takes people from Berkeley, Duke, Michigan, Virginia, these type of schools are the target schools.

For the BTA program - its Penn State, Berkeley, UCLA, UIUC, USC, Purdue, Georgia Tech, etc. I've met Upenn in engineering as well. One girl I know at Deloitte went to Cal Tech undergrad then Stanford grad. I told her she would be better off saving the world, than at Deloitte doing IT consulting and getting passed over for promotion despite her 2 ratings.

Feb 17, 2010 - 10:38am
kennethlchen:
What type of schools does Monitor recruit from?

I know OW recruits from Stanford and people go. Deloitte will take some misinformed BTA's that were majoring in like symbolic systems or some type of engineering from Stanford but I don't know of that many strategy people going to Deloitte out of stanford - I know MBAs.

Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, the like. OW the same. The 2009 class was mostly made up of the people from these.

I'm London based, and here it's all Oxford, Cambridge, a couple from LSE and Imperial.

Feb 17, 2010 - 9:46am

I completely believe the overall talent level and project quality at McKinsey is better than Deloitte S&O, but the gap is getting continually smaller. Anecdotally, Deloitte just won a multi-million dollar global strat. contract over both McKinsey and BCG. Additionally, I apologize and I won't post on this topic anymore though, as it has been pointed out that this is a BTA thread, not S&O (unless the original poster is interested in crossing over at some point).

Feb 18, 2010 - 4:18am
kennethlchen:
wow - I didn't know that Monitor was that competitive and could pull that type of talent.

That's pretty impressive - so monitor fights for candidates with MBB?

I wouldn't say "fights". If people get offers from both, you know which way it's going. But many Monitor grads will have had interview rounds at one or more of MBB.

After all, there's not enough places for everyone out of the top schools to go to MBB. But Booz, OW, Monitor, etc. will aim just as high as MBB when targetting.

(my experience is all EMEA, where this is even more true)

Feb 18, 2010 - 9:24am
PorcineAviation:
kennethlchen:
wow - I didn't know that Monitor was that competitive and could pull that type of talent.

That's pretty impressive - so monitor fights for candidates with MBB?

I wouldn't say "fights". If people get offers from both, you know which way it's going. But many Monitor grads will have had interview rounds at one or more of MBB.

After all, there's not enough places for everyone out of the top schools to go to MBB. But Booz, OW, Monitor, etc. will aim just as high as MBB when targetting.

(my experience is all EMEA, where this is even more true)

I've met Booz people and frankly, the Booz people I've met come from lower tier schools. I met San Diego State type schools. (no offense to SDSU) Are you sure this holds true with Booz? Deloitte doesn't drop that low in any department.

Feb 18, 2010 - 12:22am

mmonkey correct me if I'm wrong but aren't all MBB charismatic and make u want to sleep with them???

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