MIND BLOWN!/ Connections?

2 Parts
-----------
PART 1

All that glitters isnt gold.

I am absolutely mind blown at how many interns attend schools I never heard of (not top ranked) and they claim their friends who also attend these schools secure jobs at places like Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs etc.

I am not a school elitist, I am just confused how people at my school have trouble securing these jobs yet a lot of students from these no name schools that are located in the city are securing these coveted positions.

Does location matter more than school for undergrad????

 

Part 1- If they are really unknown schools, then they're referring to back office jobs but they might think all of the jobs at those banks are the same. For example- Audit at Goldman Sachs. (There might be a few that actually land FO jobs - I've seen a couple of BB IBD analysts from Baruch on Linkedin) It's a strange phenomenon. At my company quite a few of the definite non-target kids like to boast about their friends' BB PWM/BO internship. Lol.

Part 2- I don't think so. But it obviously will help and influence the decision.

 

Get off your high horse. There are TONS of "non-targets" in big 4. GS, MS, and other top banks have tons of nontargets, especially in back office. My school gets tons of "technology/operations" analyst recruiting from the top firms, but not IB. And the fact you mention these schools are located in the city, then they probably get on campus recruiting and have alumni that actively recruit at their schools.

 

I am pretty sure that a strong connection will not let you bypass the interview process, unless you are Lloyd's son/daughter.

What you have to understand is that the people who make it to brand-name companies from one of these not top ranked schools have dedication. For them, it is not enough to just apply online. They would never get a first interview. They need to network themselves to an interview. With everybody they can possible reach out to. Once they have achieved that, they practice for days, if not weeks, to ace that interview. I think such a work ethic and dedication is exactly what BBs are looking for and if you can demonstrate that, as well as show your technical skills, they you can get an offer. However, if you are from a non top ranked school an MD might just say "f*** him...I would rather have a harvard kid" (who might perform a lot worse).

I do believe that location does matter, but it is always about what you make of it.

Just my $.02

 

Part 1: They get back-office jobs, and think they're the shit. 99.9% of kids at non-targets don't know the difference between front and back office and are extremely impressed when their friends get "jobs" at Goldman Sachs.

Part 2: No, of course not. And even if it was possible, anyone capable of working at these firms should have no problem with an internship level interview.

 
EverythingNicee:

PART 2

Can strong connections get a person into a top tier firm(think Goldman Sachs, Mckinsey, etc )for an internship-- bypassing an interview process?

This does happen from time to time. The kids' families are usually super connected but not necessarily Lloyd's kids, etc. They are more likely the kids of the CEOs of big clients and/or politically connected people.

I know of 3 people who never interviewed and were just placed into IB analyst classes at top BBs. Only 1 of the 3 actually lasted more than a year.

Most of the kids that this happens to aren't very public about it so even when it does happen, you might not know about it.

 
DoctorAndre:

Part 1- If they are really unknown schools, then they're referring to back office jobs but they might think all of the jobs at those banks are the same. For example- Audit at Goldman Sachs. (There might be a few that actually land FO jobs - I've seen a couple of BB IBD analysts from Baruch on Linkedin) It's a strange phenomenon. At my company quite a few of the definite non-target kids like to boast about their friends' BB PWM/BO internship. Lol.

Part 2- I don't think so. But it obviously will help and influence the decision.

There are some all-stars at Baruch who put a lot of their "better educated" peers to shame at work. Typically they are first-generation college, often first-generation citizens, usually work throughout the school year, and attend Baruch for its affordability.

To the OP, no offense, but you're in Big 4. Accounting is unlike banking in that there is an incredibly rote, formulaic path to getting hired. Major in accounting, keep grades over 3.5 (even that is flexible), be more interesting than the paint on the wall during an interview, and the job is yours. There's always a need for accountants.

Banking recruiting, on the other hand, is so whimsical. The guy across the table doesn't like the color of your tie? You might get dinged. Some senior guy decides six kids from his alma mater who interviewed deserve offers and there's only six seats? You're out of luck. Spent months networking, reaching out to alumni, friends, relatives, anyone you know on the Street? You might lose out to the guy who happened to share a cab back from LGA in the rain with a VP at the bank you wanted to work at. Nail every technical during all six interviews in your superday? You could still lose to the kid with lower grades but an emotional self-made success story who everyone decides is a better 'fit' for the position.

Despite the fluky nature of the game, it tends to reward pedigree and connections. Therefore while in accounting anyone who follows the path (regardless of their school) gets the Big 4 job, in banking it is the kids at the best schools with the best grades and the strongest networks who comprise the majority of the analyst class. Consequently, you shouldn't be surprised when you see kids from random schools in Big 4 positions, and don't be shocked when you hear of their friends at banks. In all likelihood, their friends are not in a revenue-generating role; banks tend to cast far broader nets when they hire for BO and MO positions.

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 
  1. Working at a Big 4 I noticed the same thing. Audit and Tax don't need a big name school. As long as someone is good in technicals he/she will be fine at Big4.
  2. No. At least not in the US/UK.
 
  1. People from "elitist" schools can be dry and dull despite being book smart. This is why they have issues getting positions, no personality so no one wants to work with them. Same goes with any school.

In addition, I second Febreeze's comment. All you "prospective monkeys" are extremely judgemental of FO versus BO. You should realize in this job economy BO is just as competitive and difficult to get at any bank. Also, no one actually scoffs at back office like this board does due to all the students.

  1. Very rare
Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."
 
yeahright:

1. People from "elitist" schools can be dry and dull despite being book smart. This is why they have issues getting positions, no personality so no one wants to work with them. Same goes with any school.

In addition, I second Febreeze's comment. All you "prospective monkeys" are extremely judgemental of FO versus BO. You should realize in this job economy BO is just as competitive and difficult to get at any bank. Also, no one actually scoffs at back office like this board does due to all the students.

2. Very rare

The vast majority of your post is true. I will, however, disagree with "no one scoffs at the back office" statement. A lot of my family members are career finance IT professionals having worked IT at BAML, JPM, GS - and they say in nearly 90% of their interactions with FO people they are almost always looked down upon. Seeing and hearing that is probably part of the reason I want to be in a revenue generating role at a bank.

 

Sales representatives generate a lot of revenue, but why are they looked down upon? Finance people at Google don't generate revenues (correct me if I'm wrong), but do they get looked down upon?

 

Yes connections play a huge role. My bank is actually non-target friendly, mainly top state schools, but also have top private universities (G-Town, Emory, Carnegie). Anyways in my analyst class, there were people from no name universities with degrees not even remotely related to banking. They got in mainly due to connections. Hell, our entire analyst class was pissed after finding out one of the analyst didn't even know what EBITDA stood for. He only got the job because of his dad's connection to the bank. His dad is a huge client and a big moneymaker. His son was not even interested in banking or business, which pissed people off since you couldn't really fire a relative of someone that generates millions for you. Anyways, he got tired of banking and left 7 months in to focus on his music.

Array
 
TeddyTheBear:

Yes connections play a huge role. My bank is actually non-target friendly, mainly top state schools, but also have top private universities (G-Town, Emory, Carnegie). Anyways in my analyst class, there were people from no name universities with degrees not even remotely related to banking. They got in mainly due to connections. Hell, our entire analyst class was pissed after finding out one of the analyst didn't even know what EBITDA stood for. He only got the job because of his dad's connection to the bank. His dad is a huge client and a big moneymaker. His son was not even interested in banking or business, which pissed people off since you couldn't really fire a relative of someone that generates millions for you. Anyways, he got tired of banking and left 7 months in to focus on his music.

And this is why people in SF, NYC, Chicago and LA consider Houston banking a joke.

 
Best Response
TechBanker82:
TeddyTheBear:

Yes connections play a huge role. My bank is actually non-target friendly, mainly top state schools, but also have top private universities (G-Town, Emory, Carnegie). Anyways in my analyst class, there were people from no name universities with degrees not even remotely related to banking. They got in mainly due to connections. Hell, our entire analyst class was pissed after finding out one of the analyst didn't even know what EBITDA stood for. He only got the job because of his dad's connection to the bank. His dad is a huge client and a big moneymaker. His son was not even interested in banking or business, which pissed people off since you couldn't really fire a relative of someone that generates millions for you. Anyways, he got tired of banking and left 7 months in to focus on his music.

And this is why people in SF, NYC, Chicago and LA consider Houston banking a joke.

Stop, just stop. Our Natural Resources group is stellar in Houston. The bankers do incredibly well for themselves, and the analysts who leave enjoy excellent placement at top energy shops.

You're perpetuating the naivete that has led to the gradual decline of these forums over recent years; average quality of posts begin to crater when people come on here and begin regurgitating the nonsense that is propagated by college and high school students who have no idea what they're talking about to begin with. When everyone is repeating senseless drivel, there is no real information.

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 
TechBanker82:
TeddyTheBear:

Yes connections play a huge role. My bank is actually non-target friendly, mainly top state schools, but also have top private universities (G-Town, Emory, Carnegie). Anyways in my analyst class, there were people from no name universities with degrees not even remotely related to banking. They got in mainly due to connections. Hell, our entire analyst class was pissed after finding out one of the analyst didn't even know what EBITDA stood for. He only got the job because of his dad's connection to the bank. His dad is a huge client and a big moneymaker. His son was not even interested in banking or business, which pissed people off since you couldn't really fire a relative of someone that generates millions for you. Anyways, he got tired of banking and left 7 months in to focus on his music.

And this is why people in SF, NYC, Chicago and LA consider Houston banking a joke.

Haha, for the record, he was based in NYC.

Array
 
Dhanam:

The vast majority of your post is true. I will, however, disagree with "no one scoffs at the back office" statement. A lot of my family members are career finance IT professionals having worked IT at BAML, JPM, GS - and they say in nearly 90% of their interactions with FO people they are almost always looked down upon. Seeing and hearing that is probably part of the reason I want to be in a revenue generating role at a bank.

As a former back-office employee, everyone looks down at the IT guys - even other back office. Not all back-office is the same. The problem typically is that IT can never get anything right in terms of software/hardware for the support functions/duties that other back office departments do.

Not saying you should go into back-office unless it's a role you think will be engaging/stimulating.

 
Arsene Wenger's Father:

Sales representatives generate a lot of revenue, but why are they looked down upon? Finance people at Google don't generate revenues (correct me if I'm wrong), but do they get looked down upon?

Corporate finance has little to do with banking. Moreover, it's usually not necessary for a finance person to talk to a Software Engineer. It's more segregated, unlike back-office, where you might be talking with traders/portfolio managers/bankers/sales/etc.

 
shialadouche:
Febreeze:

BO gig at Goldman is not the easiest thing to secure. Definitely nothing to scoff at.

Rather work FO at some shitty bank than back office at GS. That's just me though.

"I have to work at GS!!!" lol at those kids. completely agree with you, rather be front office at no-name boutique. Many of my friends work in back-office and I respect them and the position a lot. Can't function without IT/operations

And even I get looked down upon...and I'm in middle office. talked to a couple traders and investment bankers and their tone was like "hah you suck at life"...until I told them I was an intern, and was way ahead of the game compared to them, which shut them the hell up.

 
zeroblued:
shialadouche:
Febreeze:

BO gig at Goldman is not the easiest thing to secure. Definitely nothing to scoff at.

Rather work FO at some shitty bank than back office at GS. That's just me though.

"I have to work at GS!!!" lol at those kids. completely agree with you, rather be front office at no-name boutique.
Many of my friends work in back-office and I respect them and the position a lot. Can't function without IT/operations

And even I get looked down upon...and I'm in middle office. talked to a couple traders and investment bankers and their tone was like "hah you suck at life"...until I told them I was an intern, and was way ahead of the game compared to them, which shut them the hell up.

Did you actually tell these bankers and traders you were way ahead of the game compared to them? Because if you did I acknowledge your brass balls dude.

 
Dhanam:

Did you actually tell these bankers and traders you were way ahead of the game compared to them? Because if you did I acknowledge your brass balls dude.

Ya...not the smartest decision on my part, but it was after I realized that I didn't want to work in the person's division. Probably wont do it again in the future haha, sooo much downside risk

 

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