Negotiating for a 3rd year position - unique situation
Throwaway since this probably would make it too easy to tie me to my real account.
Anyways, I’m a 2nd year analyst at a top MM in a super lean industry team (MM, how do I approach this?
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+1 for username alone
If they like you so much and there is an associate opening, I'm not sure why it wouldn't be in the firms best interest to promote you directly to associate.
I just don't know if there's a precedent for it. I wonder how it would look for other 3rd years who didn't get an associate promote.
Firms are getting much more active in promoting capable 2nd years directly to associate
I'm not so sure getting the ASO title would be better than that 'sign-on' bonus; I think the ANL title affords you more flexibility. However, you should avoid anything with a clawback given your circumstances...
My suggestion would be you stay until your SO knows what they're doing and you can plan around that, whether that mean relocating with your current firm or recruiting elsewhere. To that end, you should probably at least put some 'feelers' out if you have an idea as to what city you might end up in.
The team structure you're talking about (ie you staying more 'junior' due to the way moves are going) is unfortunate, but is one of those things that can happen any time in banking.
Yeah it's not so much the title, but the associated pay bump that comes with the promote in addition to having some sign on bonus. If anything I would just put Analyst on my resume. But you don't think "direct promote to associate after 2 years" or something would be good on a resume?
The person above noted the analyst title affords more flexibility (I'm assuming he/she means for buyside recruiting) ... I'm not sure if that's true since people would be able to tell (if you make it explicit) that you got an early promote if you push for associate. In that case, they will know how many years of experience you have.
Have you considered looking at other opportunities (Buyside, Corp dev, etc) or are you also holding off on that because of the uncertainty around where your SO is going to grad school?
Given the leverage, and assuming you're sort of holding back on external roles because of the above uncertainty, I'd think about pushing for the associate promote and sign on bonus. That way, you 1) get to put on your resume you got early promote (depending how long you choose to stay there), 2) capture some of that via increased base comp vs. Bonus you may have to give back if you leave, and 3) position yourself to be a peer to the new associate hire - because in the scenario where your firm hires a dud, you won't get stuck being a 3rd year analyst babysitting some jackass and with less junior support.
In a really fucked up scenario, if you are a 3rd year stuck with a shit associate (who the firm may or may not give some time to get up to speed) with one less Jr analyst, you could get stuck with a shit ton of work, but be benchmarked against an inflated level of expectation vs. what they expect from the associate... Which could lead to burnout, resentment, etc. (I'm a bit cynical and maybe your firm won't do that to you, but I'm just assuming shitty scenarios I've seen happen could happen).
Yeah, highly doubt there's any way I'd be able to ask for a huge sign on bonus w/o a clawback. Any tips on how to approach the actual discussion when it comes up?
Frankly, I haven't negotiated bonus and comp in this way before (only when I've moved on to a new role to get an understanding of what the all-in comp would be), so I'm not sure I can provide much on that - hopefully the other WSOers can chime in here.
But for the promotion bit, I would get some time in with senior bankers you're close with, and talk about how you like the team and want to stay (with the option of switching offices - for your SO), but with fewer juniors in an already lean team, and you've been stepping up, you want your title to reflect your responsibilities and efforts. The one thing though, is when your team typically promote an analyst to associate - is it the summer, or Jan/Feb? Do they have a very formal process, or within a top MM is it more just whatever senior bankers want will happen? It's definitely better to have the conversation sooner, so that they know that's what you're gunning for, and can build a case for it leading up to it.
If you think there's a really good chance you'll leave, you won't get the benefit of the fat sign-on anyway... But if you can get Associate, that you can lock in that title and carry that on your resume to a different firm. Plus, you skip a year where they'll have higher expectations and more scrutiny as an Analyst 3, because it's a promotion year. Even if you guys end up hiring a good associate, you'll still be responsible for all the junior work and he/she will still depend on you to get up to speed, and that could be especially hard on you if the new junior analyst(s) are no good.
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