PJT RSSG vs Point72 vs KKR Special Sits
Hi all,
I’m currently in the very fortunate situation of having to choose between three offers and I was hoping that WSO could be of some help. I have summer analyst offers in PJT’s Restructuring group, at Point72 for the academy program, and for KKR’s special sits group.
P72’s data analytics and general investment team support seemed super impressive and I really like the idea of a program where I’m effectively paid to train during the summer and for the first year or so of my job. On the flip side, I’m concerned about the career stability of a multi-manager program from an analyst POV and am worried that if I turn out to dislike public markets investing that I will be pidgeon-holed. I have also heard that moving from a multi manager to a single manager is very difficult - is this true? Additionally, how have returns been over the past several years because I have heard mixed things. And at the junior level, will firm level returns even matter to me?
On the KKR side all my friends say I’d be crazy to give up the KKR brand name. Additionally, working on the buy side straight out of college seems super cool. That being said, I’ve read that 1) returns haven’t been stellar and that 2) MF special sits groups typically work on projects that other groups have passed on therefore special sits turns into more of a catch all group instead of something truly differentiated. Is this true?
Lastly, PJT RX is obviously also a great choice. I really liked the culture of the team (or what little I could gather from zoom interviews) and historical exits seem to be super strong. The key issue here (and frankly this likely also applies to the KKR offer) is that I’m concerned that restructuring activity will drop as the economy recovers, leading to me having little experience on my resume.
I would greatly appreciate any insight - I need to make a decision by next Monday.
Maybe this is troll but ill take the bait. Id say it depends on what you want to do but id lean towards KKR. I would cross off PJT since KKR SSG is similar in style to PJT RX and think KKR is better for exits, comp, and lifestyle.
I’m asking but can you honestly easily switch over to general PE from Credit? I was told it was actually a rather difficult transition. Nonetheless OP I would take KKR as regardless of if you get a FT offer or not I’d say you can market yourself to more places than a PJT RX internship.
It’s difficult as a FT analyst but know multiple people who’ve done junior year SAs at top credit shops and done FT at MF/UMM PE.
I concur with this comment strongly. If you take KKR, you will easily be able to recruit for any EB/MF/HF out of undergrad. The same cannot be said for the other options so even if you don’t like KKR, you can easily move to another shop with a such a prestigious brand name on your resume. Would be curious to hear about your background given such vastly different SA offers.
I’m curious how the academy trains people well for SM hedge funds given that most of the P72 pod shops have such a different investing style. Like it would be rare for an analyst at P72 to move to Lone Pine and vice versa. Such different styles but I guess the academy is different?
.
Take PJT. It’s an easy decision. Fine culture and most optionality. KKR Special Sits isn’t good (their returns are terrible and the people aren’t good, and P72 requires conviction in their program and that style of investing).
This is fucking retarded stop with the optionality nonsense. You want optionality? Put kkr on your resume, that is what give you optionality.
The whole IB optionality mindset is so insanely stupid. And lastly optionality doesn’t lead to career success, specialization does. Don’t take this sheep’s advice.
It’s fine to specialize. I just wouldn’t specialize in making terrible investments.
Take all 3 the more the merrier
Man there's some ass advice on this site sometimes -- as someone who has really good friends (including 2 roommates) at all three of these groups, I think this shakes out pretty simply. Point72 should come off your list first, even if you're really interested in public markets. The discussion around the investing styles of multimanager platforms is all over this site, so I won't rehash that -- the most important thing here is that for the first 9 months in the academy program, you won't even be on a desk -- you're in a classroom. After those 9 months, there's no guarantee you'll even get matched to a PM at all. You could wind up cut out of the program in a year with literally 0 real work experience on your resume -- yes, this happens to people. On top of this is the fact that after two years in a banking program, the quantity and quality of hedge fund opportunities you will have access to is massive -- there will still definitely be seats at Point72 then.
KKR's Special Sits team isn't their flagship PE fund -- you won't be treated the same, you won't be able to transfer internally, you won't get the same headhunter looks. I do think the conversations about deal activity for PJT or returns for KKR SSG is kind of silly though -- as the junior most member on the team you don't get give a shit about returns or deal flow -- your compensation isn't tied up in how well the firm is doing the way that partners are. Regardless, PJT's Restructuring team is pound for pound the best banking analyst program on wall street. They have a machine that churns out the best candidates for on and off cycle recruiting every single year -- you have no idea what the training program at KKR will be -- you'll be the guinea pig. From PJT Rx it's proven you can exit to a credit group at a MF, vanilla PE at a MF, top distressed, event driven, and long/short hedge funds. There's no rush to take an investing offer right away just because it's buy side -- your career is a marathon. Stamp one of the most respected banking group's name on your resume -- take PJT hands down.
It’s not a guinea pig at KKR. They’ve hired people for years. The fact that their returns are garbage is important. It makes the platform less stable (it’s a miracle they raised this new fund, and they had to rebrand it even then), and it’s indicative of a poor learning environment.
They would be a guinea pig at KKR -- the New York office where Special Sits and PE sits has never taken a summer analyst class -- we know literally nothing about the internship program, including training and conversion rate. Even in the full time pool, the number of ft analyst they've taken out of undergrad in the past can be counted on one hand -- not a great indication of a fleshed out training program. Not to mention, again, that I literally know someone working in this group -- they've mentioned that training and mentorship is poor. I think we're mostly on the same page though -- I just don't believe that poor returns alone should drive you away from taking a big name investment fund offer as a super junior member -- I think this isn't the offer to be taking though.
Nobody ever mentions that about P72 - the academy sets you up to potentially get a seat but very smart people who worked very hard can end up stuck without a PM.
.
I gave my general advice, but made a similar decision and have more detailed thoughts if you’d like them. DM if you want
Congrats on getting all 3 offers! Out of curiosity, did you have to accelerate for KKR? Their apps haven't closed yet, and WSO has been quiet on interview news.
Any idea when KKR FT 2022 Analyst process will start? Assume Summer 2022 is ongoing atm
PJT is almost a no brainer here. KKR has a good brand name, but almost everyone knows SSG there isn’t good. Know of 3 people who got both PJT RSSG and KKR SSG/Credit, and all 3 took PJT. Think there’s some exaggeration P72 gets for blacklisting you from single managers, but I don’t think it’s a great platform to learn, especially if you want to hop to a less volatile fund (if they retain you that is)
Clearly you should go to Silver Lake or Silver Point (that’s where everyone else goes when they get all these offers)
One guy went from summer at P72 academy to fulltime at Silver Point so your sarcastic comment is actually true lol
I do know they mostly stopped recruiting from undergrad now tho. No more Wharton OCR
Yeah it was only partially in jest. People who go to those places seem to line up offers ahead of time.
Take PJT. Good culture, great learning experience to be had, excellent pay, optionality.
You will learn more about both finance and what you like/dislike in banking than on the buyside as you will be exposed to more things and more types of people naturally. P72 will be a narrow experience. And sitting in a classroom being taught how to make a dcf is nothing like making 25 of them over the course of 2 years; most banking analysts can run circles around people coming out of the academy.
At P72 you have minimal way to influence which PM You end up with, and that determines your entire "real" job experience. The academy is not "for" you; it is a cheap way of avoiding the ridiculous noncompete payouts that are now common in the industry when junior analysts routinely jump ship after only working at the firm for a year, and test-driving new hires for a year before having to actually sign an employee on.
Not to mention the general brutal nature of public markets L/S as a career.
There you have it. This is from someone who literally works at P72.
Read his title, it says "Authored by: Certified Hedge Fund Professional - Quant"
People in the academy or on the fundamental L/S teams are literally not allowed contractually to speak with people in Cubist (the quant teams at P72).
If he isnt in cubist, he is a back office or middle office quant and would have no idea what he is saying...
you clearly are not familiar with the academy if you think this: "And sitting in a classroom being taught how to make a dcf is nothing like making 25 of them over the course of 2 years; most banking analysts can run circles around people coming out of the academy."
Hi, do you mind if I ask you a few questions about the academy? Would be happy to do it over DMs
That's funny you say that, because in the academy part of their curriculum is literally making 25 DCFs (exact number they explicitly state) for companies across industries. All in ten months.
Et qui accusantium ullam vitae laborum accusamus. Dicta consequatur nulla est nulla possimus aspernatur quis. Rem saepe ut voluptatum recusandae.
Et similique rerum est minus accusamus officia. Sunt accusamus vitae sapiente quae inventore quia est dolores. Et tempore reiciendis error quasi. Qui veritatis modi et vero dolore nisi voluptatem.
Est aut et velit labore. Pariatur nobis nulla aut dolor est mollitia. Vitae aliquid mollitia quod dolores qui vitae sit sit.
Cupiditate maiores quaerat iure. Est officia a vitae molestiae ullam ullam officia modi. Fuga qui omnis cum maxime modi dolor dicta nostrum. Eveniet quae ex ipsam eligendi cupiditate ipsam et.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Atque doloribus et eos molestias fugiat eius ullam quibusdam. Veritatis inventore quas quod tempore tempora autem. Officia exercitationem a consequatur est quo ipsam. Molestiae enim laborum sequi quia culpa delectus laboriosam.
Qui molestiae dignissimos distinctio sunt non ut. Sapiente autem ipsum omnis qui ratione voluptatem vel. Repudiandae esse dolores voluptatibus non qui fugit aliquid. Ducimus saepe voluptas quis mollitia. Sed quos qui aliquam dicta delectus quia suscipit. Mollitia dolorum non nisi quia.
Possimus voluptatibus et eaque ipsa dolores. Labore quo velit illo numquam non. Et quia minima libero laboriosam pariatur non.