Pull up a seat and lets talk about Oakland

I agree 100% with you, ANT.

While I enjoy reading your posts, I sometimes wonder how you manage to spend so much time posting on this website.....espically with the litle 'PE' symbol by your name....just curious

I love you ANT. I wish I had SBs.

Cool story bro.

Teamwork. You has it.

If protesters follow the "rules" of protesting, whats the point? Their voice wont be heard

"Hi guys, come back tomorrow between 2 and4pm, we promise we'll listen this time"

OH DAMN SEABIRD'D.

Meh. As someone who has been gassed a number of times (and more recently than many of you would expect), if a protester is man enough to pick up a live tear gas canister and hurl it back at the cops he's alright in my book.

I found the reddit comment fairly hilarious.

ANT defending the scum of society yet again. It is fitting that he would support such fascism that runs contrary of the liberties people have fought and died for.

Permits and scheduling needed for peaceful, nonviolent protests? Get the fuck out of here. Tear gas is banned in war in UN agreements signed by the United States and other allies. The fact that this was used, along with rubber bullets, on non-violent protesters is barbaric. I can only hope that the mayor is forced to resign and these police scum are shamed into resignation. Absolutely barbaric.

And give me a fucking break--the Tea Party? You mean the group backed by Faux News and cronies? You're a joke of yourself, ANT, not even realizing that the Tea Party is as bad or worse than the hippie-tards of OWS.

This is the scum you defend and whose actions your justify, ANT? Despicable. Absolutely despicable. I wish this was trolling or an exaggeration, but that video is honestly one of the most barbaric things I can imagine a police department of a major metropolitan city in the Western world participating in. This was an active attempt not to disperse anybody, but to cause major bodily harm on individuals posing no threat and, towards the end, help save the life of an injured individual.

ANT,

Here's your big chance to tell the mayor of Oakland how you really feel. Courtesy of #OccupyWallStreet, here are his digits:

510-409-7948 Cell 510-539-8361 Home 510-238-7004 Office

He's probably waiting for your call.

This guy was in the military. He should know that people in unruly crowds that are engaging in provocative behavior and antagonizing a superior force are putting themselves in danger...no surprise here.

The mayor makes me sick. The fact the a tiny, minority mob can threaten violence just to get their way is bullshit.

Jerome, as usual you fail to comprehend or read what I wrote. The tea party is just as controlled and influenced as the OWS crowd. Both have big money backing them. Only difference is I don't see the Tea Party fighting back against the police.

But you're right. An order to not camp out is the same as infringing speech. I can't slander someone, I can't yell fire in a movie theater. There are limits to speech. Not camping out and infringing on others who do business in the area or live around there is a limit also.

Also, I strongly oppose repealing the bill in Ohio, but I respect the left for organizing and getting something done. OWS should take note.

How the fuck was Occupy Oakland anything remotely close to slandering somebody or yelling fire in a movie theatre? You really are a fucking idiot. If they were somehow interrupting business in the area, why in God's name would they be allowed to protest from 6am until 10pm? The city cited no specific laws when they tried to eschew protesters who, by numerous videos, clearly were leaving the vicinity without the need of physical force. The only reason why they would have suddenly decided to change what they allow is so that they could force the protesters to a less visible area a different day. Just a standard act of deception of the police, not surprising since I haven't met a cop in my life that is worth a shit.

You really are defending pure fascism and some of the worst qualities that exist as a part of all levels of the US government today. Even if for some reason those protesters weren't leaving, there was no need to use fucking tear gas and rubber bullets. The protesters committed no large-scale acts of violence or vandalism that justify such use--means that the US and allies have agreed to not even use in times of war, but you believe this police department is justified in using against non-violent, otherwise legally protected protesters??? Apparently, you think those are harmless, acceptable instruments, perhaps the equivalent of how you may deal with college kids rushing the field of a football or basketball game, right?

You really do support scum, ANT, and perhaps worse, you believe what they are doing is right and in the best interests of this country.

Jerome, I think some of the claims you made were a little off:

Peaceful and legal protests: The end of the article details the laws and circumstances that led to the action. In addition to the presentation of an eviction notice a week before the police action.

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/bay-area/2011/10/dozens-arrested-occupy…

Additionally, regarding the use of CS Gas (tear gas) civilians... This is a widely accepted practice. CS gas is only prohibited in war because CS gas is visually indistinguishable from sarin gas. The prohibition CS gas on the battlefield is not because it is inhumane, it is because it leads to escalation of force that inevitably would lead to the release of sarin or VX gas as a retaliatory measure.

These points were just to clarify. The protestors should generally understand what happens when police in riot gear show up.

I don't see any laws cited and the complaints are what you could cite for pretty much every major city on a normal day.... I mean, improper food storage? Really? Reeeeally? And the city received 'reports' of this.... but nobody cited? No evidence?

The videos clearly show that the canisters were being launched at individuals--not the intended use and, I imagine, against the internal ordinances of the PD itself. Plenty of videos online as well of police shooting into crowds and at in the backs of fleeing protesters with rubber bullets. Again, completely unacceptable.

Here is one more for you from Oct 21, 2011 (4 days before your video)... they were evicted and they defied the legal order. Now, instead of it going down like other cities (cited in the article) they chose to openly defy the lawful order.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/10/21/occupy-oakland-protesters-d…

"But protester Brian Glasscock, 20, who was at the plaza overnight, said Friday morning that he saw no police coming to enforce the order. 'I didn’t see any,' Glasscock said. 'People were definitely worried that the cops were going to come, but resolute that we weren’t going to leave.' "

Also, I didn't see any CS canisters being launched at individuals. I saw them being lobbed about 20-30 ft in the air. They are dispersion tools, they tend to be fired near people. I am also pretty sure that, currently, nobody knows what hit the protestor in the head. Theoretically, it could have been one of his buddies when they launched the canisters back at the police.

This is probably what would have happened had Mayor Bloomberg not withdrawn his order in NYC.

I have now read the two articles you have posted, both of which simply summarize a statement made by the city spokeswoman. They are essentially the same articles on two different sites and equally lacking any evidence of reasons to have the camps closed.

Did you even watch the video I posted? There is clearly an officer tossing a flashbang into a group of people who were attending to Scott Olsen. Not 20-30 feet in the air, but thrown overhand at a group of people. There isn't much else to say. That sort of behavior has been common in numerous videos not only with OWS-Oakland, but in NYC and numerous other cities.

Switch the rules? What 'rules'? I'm talking about violence, nearly lethal violence in this case, being used against peaceful demonstrators. I could give a fuck if it was thrown, launched, or if getting hit in the head by a tear gas canister is particularly more or less harmful than being hit physically with a flashbang canister.

Put them in the middle? Watch the video--are you that fucking dense? A person was clearly injured--a person who the police force refused to help--and those helping the individual were targeted for further attacks.

Why the fuck do you keep posting the same shit? You are saying that the city told these people to leave. I would say that, at best, their justifications lack any documented evidence and are not in the spirit of the law (Grills being considered a fire? Unsafe food containers? I would love to see how often those rules have been enforced by the Oakland PD, if ever). At best. Secondly, none of that justifies using violence. It was not needed in other cities and there is no reason to believe that it was needed there either.

This looks extremely non-violent to me. http://www.breitbart.tv/were-the-occupy-oakland-protesters-non-violent/

I watched your video, chief. It shows exactly what you say it shows... all 2 min of it. Watch my video, you are not as right as you think you are.

You continue to post the same mindless crap: With no evidence about them being peaceful, law abiding, or anything remotely resembling that.

Your previous quote: "The city cited no specific laws when they tried to eschew protesters who, by numerous videos, clearly were leaving the vicinity without the need of physical force." I didnt see them leaving the vicinity in my video. I also posted the laws they cited. What else do you need?

In your video, you see an officer swinging some object at protesters, hitting at least two of them. You then see a single water bottle thrown and what looks to be either a black hat or a tennis shoe of some sort. It hits none of the officers and clearly incapable of causing the life threatening damage of say, a canister of tear gas hitting somebody in the head or the damage caused by getting shot in the face by rubber bullets, as the woman in your own video shows.

Fair enough, one video. Now, from the movement itself:

Occupy Oakland admits on MSNBC that protesters were throwing bottles and rocks before police responded http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-oakland-admits-on-msnbc-that-prote…

CS canisters and rubber bullets suck, but hey, so do rocks and bottles. They always could have left 5 days before when they got the first notice from the City of Oakland. I wasn't there and I am assuming that you weren't either, but I think its safe to say that laws were being broken and police were justified in using force. Disagree?

Boy am I glad this socialist is on the other side of the pond.

FYI clown shoe, Midas cums more knowledge then you could hope to know.

Sorry,

I just need to step in here for a second to make this known to you, Jerome.

The item thrown at the protesters in your video was a flash bang. That is its EXACT intended use. It is used to clear an area or room of people. The officer that threw the flash bang used it in the exact way it is intended to be used.

This is about par for the course for Oakland. I have almost been carjacked twice while at stoplights there.

They assault the police...and expect no retaliation? The officers would have been justified using far greater force than they did; I admire their restraint.

I'll never understand why protestors fight the police. They are not going to win, and it just weakens their cause. I think this outrage is just a ploy to get attention. When the tear gas and flash bangs come out, it is time to go home. They kept fighting, and somebody got hurt. Big surprise.

And occupy Oakland? Really? I don't think one investment bank has an office there; as far as I know, there isn't even a financial district.

Absolutely unjustified by whom, you? I'm glad you spent the time with a helmet on in the middle of surging protestors throwing crap at you to be able to make the overarching determination that the force was unjustified.

I apologize for the partisan link: http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/2011/10/29/bill-oreilly-phase-two…

The evidence clearly does not support any of your claims. Originally, you stated they were fleeing, peaceful protestors who were being invaded by an unjust police department who had no legal basis to disperse them. I have provided evidence to the contrary for every single one of your points. Yet, you continue to argue. Until you provide any evidence to support your rhetoric, this really can't go anywhere.

Your 'evidence' has amounted to decrees from the city itself which provide no actual evidence of these 'crimes'. The meaningless citations used include using unapproved food containers in a public place and having a bbq. You don't need teargas and rubber bullets to handle what would at worst be considered an unapproved campout/bbq.

The fact you bothered posting material from Fox News and Bill O'Reilly, which again provides no evidence of anything, merely statements from members of the Oakland city government.

You have continuously posted no evidence of anything--simply statements from the city gov't and police department--and the only claims of violence include having water bottles thrown at them. I don't see any serious injuries to officers. Many dozens of protesters seriously injured and, in one case, one of them nearly murdered by such actions.

And unjustified how? What the fuck are you even talking about? In pretty much every lens you can examine the incident, the violence used by the police department was unjustified unless you support a fascist regime where the public must be subdued.

1. The protests broke no meaningful laws to justify such a response. The city has not even provided evidence that those laws were broken, but beyond that, relying on improper food containers and bbqs as the reason are flimsy at best and certainly ought not result in violent measures.

2. Any 'violence' created by the protesters, as seen in the videos, was at best retaliatory (your own video shows a police officer attacking protesters before the single water bottle is thrown), and not justifying such measures. In our legal system, there is both an idea of the use of force continuum and the idea of proportionality. Does a few protesters throwing water bottles justify rubber bullets being shot at individuals, teargas and flashbangs used, etc.? I think not and the legal system would tend to agree with this as evidenced in its rulings.

3. The outcry among the public, who both the city gov't and the police department are to serve, alone is justification to say that the actions were inappropriate, beyond being unnecessary.

Flash bangs make loud noise and a bright flash. How much more non lethal do you want it. Maybe in your world cops would use pillows to disperse the crowd.

They were in violation. They were told to not sleep over night. They defied the police and fought back and someone for hurt. If they felt things were unconstitutional they could easily sue.

Also, just because they say the represent a majority, doesn't mean they do.

And Fox News is bullshit just like CNN and MSNBC.

You're a real fucking idiot.

They are apparently enough to put someone in critical condition when exploded in the immediate vicinity (possibly killed if not for kevlar vest protection from shrapnel), as shown in the video.

http://www.lawofficer.com/article/news/texas-officer-hurt-when-flash

And you would think the Oakland PD would have realized their stupidity by this point: http://www.findapersonalinjuryattorney.com/Latest-News/2010/October/Fla…

Alright slick, you seem to be a little slow. To compound matters, you never read the notices. So, let me quote for you... "You do not have permission to lodge overnight in Frank Ogawa Plaza. You must remove all tents, sleeping bags, tarps, cooking facilities and equipment and any other lodging material from the Plaza immediately. Your continued use of the Plaza for overnight lodging will subject you to arrest.

Your activities are injurious to health, obstruct the free use of property, interfering with the comfortable enjoyment of the Plaza, and unlawfully obstruct the free passage or use of a public park or square. (California Penal Code sections 370 and 647(e) and Civil Code section 3479.) You must allow all persons, including Oakland Police officers and other emergency personnel, access to all areas of the Plaza at all times."

Since you believe that they were breaking "meaningless" laws, you must be a legal scholar that defines his own set of laws. We can wait and see what evidence Oakland presents to defend their case... in a court. At this point, all they needed were grounds for arrest. The mere fact that they were there with all that crap after 5 days of warnings sounds like grounds to me.

Also, you seem to watch videos and see what you want to see. How was a mob surrounding about 10 police officers with crap being thrown on them retailiatory? So, they are retaliating against the cops who notified them of the impending park closure and they threatened arrests 5 days in advance. When the cops rolled in to enforce the notice, they were surrounded and "retaliated" against. Sounds like grounds for arrest to me. Cops enforce the law, the CA penal code defines the law... and the law was broken.

The video I showed was clearly from the daytime whereas yours was clearly night time. I didn't see any rubber bullets or tear gas in the one that I showed. This indicates that riot gear wasn't introduced for a long period of time and after escalation of force procedures were in place. Your simple mind seams to think they just rolled up there and started firing... love to see something that supports that.

The outcry is from idiots like you who start crying about something before they understand what happened. Still waiting on your evidence to the contrary chief... any day now.

He got hit in the head by a tear gas canister.

I love how Jerome calls people idiots when he doesn't know the facts or even looks up the city ordinances. Hahahhah

Alright, Jerome. After this, I'm done. All you do is speak through rhetoric and trying to come down to your level has made me dumber.

! This video is about 6 min of crap raining down upon the police. Some are water bottles, some aren't. At one point, one of the protestors gets hit with something and then runs over to the one that threw . At about 4:30 or so, you see one protestor provoking a female cop while she was just standing there, not swinging her club. You see paint grenades hit police... and with that, you have no idea what was in those. It could have been paint filled with exrement or poison. Nobody knows. But, its illegal.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=450_1319135217 Apparently, freedom of speech is only enjoyed by the protestors. Either way, read the notices one more time and in the notice... "You must allow all persons, including Oakland Police officers and other emergency personnel, access to all areas of the Plaza at all times." Law broken. Proof, evidence whatever the hell you want to call it. OWS Oakland chose which freedoms and Constitutional rights to observe and which ones to ignore.

Back to your original point. They clearly weren't fleeing. The were breaking the law. They were warned. Also, to address your major outrage, nobody knows what hit Scott Olsen in the head. So, find a video to support your claim. Otherwise, its just heresay.

Jerome, you clearly mentioned that the guy was injured because of the flash bang,

The police were not violent. They told the non violent protesters to leave. The protesters refused to leave and escalated things. Disobeying the police is never going to win.

Jerome, you figure out what a rifle is yet? All you do is talk on subjects you're uninformed on.

Umm, the fact actually had been established. He was shot in the head with a projectile. That eliminates a hand thrown grenade.

What over/under? They were in violation. They were told to leave multiple times. The police showed up and they still didn't leave. When the police tried to get them to disperse the protesters fought back.

The police took every precaution to limit injury and get these criminals to comply with a lawful order. Unfortunately, one person was accidently injured. Should of left when the police told them to leave.

Sadly, I think we will see more and more of this. Protesters are delusional and think they represent the majority. They think that because of this they have the right to violate laws and fight against the police. The cops do all they can to end things without violence, but the violent protesters only want to cause destruction and mayhem.

Luckily the law and what is right will prevail.

Why would I make excuses? Just because a jury will award damages doesn't mean it is right. A california jury acquitted OJ.

You said he was hit in the head and it could of been a flash bang. You repeatedly expressed your outrage over flash bangs and the crowd. His head injury was not because of the flash bang and those "grenades" are used to non violently disperse a crowed.

You can call all the names you want, but per typical Jerome style, you run into a thread uninformed and spouting your leftist bullshit.

You figure out what a rifle is yet? I still remember your horrendous faux pas on that topic.

http://tv.breitbart.com/occupydenver-thugs-knock-motorcycle-cop-to-grou…

More "peaceful" protesting. I love the person who calls police fucking garbage on the speaker. I am so glad Obama owns this movement now.

http://www.infowars.com/occupy-phoenix-with-ar-15s/

Wow, Nazi's at a OWS movement. I am sure that the liberal media will now say all OWS protests are nazi movements since it used that same bullshit logic to defame the Tea Party.

I love that you have to get a permit and obtain an insurance bond to protest. Hilarious. Gotta love what we have become in "the land of the free".

You need a bond and insurance when the protest is large and there might be effects on others.People are free to say anything they want, but large protests require police presence to keep protesters as well as other citizens safe. There are also costs that can be incurred depending on how large this is.

Seems pretty reasonable.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SO MUCH ANGAAAH IN THIS ONE THREAD!!! PASSION. ANGER. MALICE. HATE. IGNORANCE. SO MUCH FIRE IN THIS ONE THREAD FROM BOTH SIDES!

My female intern says she'd love to be in the middle of all this and get gangbanged by you 10 angry men.

okay i made that up but she said something similar albeit less sexy lol

1) It is being reported that he was hit in the head from a tear gas canister. Here is a picture of police and what they use to fire the tear gas:

http://images.quickblogcast.com/74786-65553/19580017a.JPG

The guy was hit in the head from a gun fired projectile.

This is a flash bang grenade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M84_stun_grenade

Hand thrown. Not gun fired.

2) The police acted within reason.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2011-10-26/news/30326931_1_protesters-return…

An article from the SF Gate. Not Fox News. Here are some excerpts from the article:

"Police fired tear gas at least five times Tuesday night into a crowd of several hundred protesters backing the Occupy movement who unsuccessfully tried to retake an encampment outside Oakland City Hall that officers had cleared away more than 12 hours earlier."

-- Trying to RETAKE an area that the police cleared in direct violation of the police order.

"Police gave repeated warnings to protesters to disperse from the entrance to Frank Ogawa Plaza at 14th Street and Broadway before firing several tear gas canisters into the crowd at about 7:45 p.m. Police had announced over a loudspeaker that those who refused to leave could be targeted by "chemical agents."

-- Police gave repeated warnings and clearly told protesters that tear gas was going to be used. They defied this order.

"Protesters scattered in both directions on Broadway as the tear gas canisters and several flash-bang grenades went off. Regrouping, protesters tried to help one another and offered each other eye drops."

-- Even after firing tear gas the protesters continued to defy the order.

"Minutes later, protesters regrouped at the 15th Street entrance to the plaza. Protesters began throwing objects again. Police responded by firing more tear gas canisters."

-- Now the protesters are throwing objects at the police.

"Protesters threw turquoise and red paint at the riot officers. Some led the crowd in chanting, "This is why we call you pigs."

-- Throwing paint.

"Others pleaded with agitators to be peaceful and return to the march; some protesters tried to fight with police and were clubbed and kicked in return."

-- Now they are fighting with the police

"Interim Oakland police chief Howard Jordan said his officers had no choice but to respond with tear gas. The crowd at its peak grew to more than 1,000 at about 8:30 p.m., and two officers were wounded from the paint and chemicals thrown at them."

• Two police officers were injured

"Toward the end of the night, protesters continued throwing objects at officers, only to be tear gassed in return. After the fourth exchange, some demonstrators took to their bullhorns to try to stop their peers from goading the police. About 150 to 200 protesters remained at Frank Ogawa Plaza after 11 p.m., staring down the officers keeping them from entering."

-- Throwing more objects. The protesters themselves begged others to stop attacking the police.

"While the majority of damage was limited to trash cans set on fire and a stolen traffic sign at 15th and Broadway, the worst damage of the night was when protesters smashed the back window of a California Highway Patrol cruiser."

-- Lighting cans on fire and damaging a police vehicle now.

"City officials said they had been forced to clear the encampments because of sanitary and public safety concerns."

"Officials initially waived city laws that ban camping and allowed the occupation of the plaza. But starting Thursday, the city issued of series of orders for protesters to vacate the area, citing concerns about fire hazards, sanitation issues, graffiti, drug use and violence."

""We've been trying (to talk) with the Occupy Oakland people for the last two weeks," Quan told KGO radio. "Last week it was pretty clear that there was escalating violence.""

-- Wow, the city allowed them to break the ordinance, were in contact for weeks and simply wanted the protesters to not camp out over night. They could come back during the day, every day.

Unfortunately, these protesters are not about following the law or respecting anyone else. They push the police into responding with violence and then blame them when someone gets hurt. Police from 18 different agencies were involved. This was not a bunch of Oakland brutes.

The protesters SHOULD HAVE simply dispersed. The could of come back during the day and filed a lawsuit against the city if they thought they had a right to camp out over night. This would of been civil and would of respected the law and everyone else. This would of not injured anyone, protester or police officer.

I am not a fascist. I am a Libertarian. When you have a large group of people, using public space, that requires police or other uses of tax payer funds, you should post a bond or be able to cover this. The city has bent over backward to be accommodating, but "occupying" an area is not lawful.

The Tea Party, as well as every other protest, has complied with these rules. I expect them to. If the Tea Party was camping out and fought against the police I would condemn them also. The rule of law applied to the right and the left.

Another intelligent and well thought out reply by Jerome. Ladies and gentlemen, give a round of applause.