Quantitative Research vs Trading

How does a career in quant research differ from that in quant trading? I had never considered quant research until recently and was wondering if anyone currently in the field could comment on lifestyle, compensation (vs trading), exit opps., etc. I'm particularly interested in hearing about working in the prop trading environment as opposed to a bank.

 
peyo212:

Look for a good trading firm that has their quantitative traders and researchers working together so that they're basically indistinguishable apart from their titles. What you don't want is to be at a place that gives all the glory (read bonus) to the traders even though the quant researchers did all the work

A lot stat arb is done by researchers, since it does not require a lot of trading skills. Think of Optiver, IMC, FlowTraders, Tibra, SIG, Jane Street.... Most of them have stat arb where you are more researcher then trader.
 
Ibankers/Researchers/ and Sales people defiantly need to be decent at math to some extent but no where as close to traders. If your even thinking about going down the trading route in the future is it more or less mandatory to have a degree in either mathematics or financial engineering in this day and age?
It's helpful but not absolutely necessary. Naturally, strong quantitative skills give you an advantage in most areas of trading.

Jerome Marrow or Brady4MVP may be good people to talk to if you want to go into trading from a liberal arts background. Both of them are prop traders with English and Sociology degrees, respectively.

Trading is a tough job with lots of stress. Working on the trading floor, you can tell who was working as a trader back in September 2008. There are people in their late '20s going around with lots of gray hair looking like they're 40. Heck, even us friendly desk developers with relatively lower stress jobs age faster than our west coast counterparts.

I know the majority of financial engineering graduate programs want you to come from a quantative background as there extremely math intensive but what are the odds of a liberal arts kid getting into such a program. Would banging out a high score on the quantative section of the gmat help in some cases?
Yes. However, the median score at most of the Top 10 programs is an 800, indicating that at least 50% of students got a perfect score on the quant GREs.

A Math GRE II score might be a good substitute for a quantitative background- you'll want to be able to get a 700, though a 750 would look really strong. You'll still need to show programming ability, too, for most programs.

Bang out a 650V/800Q on the GREs, a 700 on the Math GRE Subject test (The Princeton Review has a good book), take a CS course, get three strong recs, including one from a prof in a quantitative discipline, and we'll talk some more.

 

No. I think Ring Theory and Group Theory isn't very helpful for trading. However, you need to study it to get a 700 on the Math GRE Subject test to prove you can do probability and calculus to a grad school.

Theoretical math is useless in 80% of situations in trading. I would give a higher number, but I know somebody from some weird q group or CDO trading group is going to tell me about some time that they applied it and prove me wrong.

 
IlliniProgrammer:
No. I think Ring Theory and Group Theory isn't very helpful for trading. However, you need to study it to get a 700 on the Math GRE Subject test to prove you can do probability and calculus to a grad school.

Theoretical math is useless in 80% of situations in trading. I would give a higher number, but I know somebody from some weird q group or CDO trading group is going to tell me about some time that they applied it and prove me wrong.

I work with structured products, the pricing models are very complex and require some very high level math. But the quants do this, the structures and traders just have to know how to use the models which normally requires plugging in numbers.

 
IlliniProgrammer:
No. I think Ring Theory and Group Theory isn't very helpful for trading. However, you need to study it to get a 700 on the Math GRE Subject test to prove you can do probability and calculus to a grad school.

Theoretical math is useless in 80% of situations in trading. I would give a higher number, but I know somebody from some weird q group or CDO trading group is going to tell me about some time that they applied it and prove me wrong.

Lol, like Gaussian Copula which they used in structuring credit derivatives, now they realized they lost their job because of that... They made money before because they fooled people into believe the assumption they made, not because their model is so good...

 
wallstreetballa:
Ibankers/Researchers/ and Sales people defiantly need to be decent at math to some extent but no where as close to traders. If your even thinking about going down the trading route in the future is it more or less mandatory to have a degree in either mathematics or financial engineering in this day and age?

I know the majority of financial engineering graduate programs want you to come from a quantative background as there extremely math intensive but what are the odds of a liberal arts kid getting into such a program. Would banging out a high score on the quantative section of the gmat help in some cases?

K, let's clear this up. Researchers need more math than anybody. For traders, you don't need to know that much maths. To gain complete understanding in derivative pricing you need to know measure theory, real analysis, stochastic calculus, stochastic control, I can tell you those things won't help you trading at all. While knowledge about pricing a derivative is good to know, but it won't help you trading. Say you can price most nasty exotic derivatives that no one understand, it won't help you, cuz you won't find liquidity for such thing. So it won't help you trading, not in the normal sense of trading. So called "quantitative traders", are just computer programmers with some knowledge about the market. You will be coding all day. Most strategies they use are statistical arb, market neutral etc. which in my opinion are not interesting. So think again if you want to be a quant.   

 
GekkotheGreat:
wallstreetballa:
Ibankers/Researchers/ and Sales people defiantly need to be decent at math to some extent but no where as close to traders. If your even thinking about going down the trading route in the future is it more or less mandatory to have a degree in either mathematics or financial engineering in this day and age?

I know the majority of financial engineering graduate programs want you to come from a quantative background as there extremely math intensive but what are the odds of a liberal arts kid getting into such a program. Would banging out a high score on the quantative section of the gmat help in some cases?

K, let's clear this up. Researchers need more math than anybody. For traders, you don't need to know that much maths. To gain complete understanding in derivative pricing you need to know measure theory, real analysis, stochastic calculus, stochastic control, I can tell you those things won't help you trading at all. While knowledge about pricing a derivative is good to know, but it won't help you trading. Say you can price most nasty exotic derivatives that no one understand, it won't help you, cuz you won't find liquidity for such thing. So it won't help you trading, not in the normal sense of trading. So called "quantitative traders", are just computer programmers with some knowledge about the market. You will be coding all day. Most strategies they use are statistical arb, market neutral etc. which in my opinion are not interesting. So think again if you want to be a quant.   

this

 

To OP

What are you trading and what type of trading are you doing? It seems to me that you're lumping all products and strategies together, which is fucking retarded. I have a friend who's a military jock, prop trades equities all day by following charts, and barely knows calculus. On the other hand, I take classes with MSFE indian and chinese nerds, many of whom go into algo trading/electronic market making, using advanced statistical methods. Traders spans the whole spectrum...

 

Ask them? Maybe ask to do a shadow for a day and spend some time with each and figure out what you like more.

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.
 

Chances are if you applied for and were accepted at both positions (assuming you aren't inept) and don't really know, we don't either. From those descriptions its hard to tell, this is honestly something you should talk to the company/people who work there about, albeit in a more subtle manner.

Jack: They’re all former investment bankers who were laid off from that economic crisis that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have zero real world skills, but God they work hard. -30 Rock
 
marcellus_wallace:
Can you give a brief on your background?

Just wondering what it takes to get into these crazy firms today, one of my friends an EE grad is trying to.

I'm also trying to break into S&T right now, so any tips from somebody who got offers would be great.

 

"Quant Research" is essentially very advanced statistics and occasionally model derivation/tweaking. For example if you were in an options trading firm as a quant, you may have to verify and calibrate parameters in existing pricing models as well as experiment with better models.

Bachelor's recruiting for these positions usually requires a top 5 CS/Math education and even some extra stuff like strong Putnam performances. A quick stalking trip on linkedin will show you that a lot of these guys at Two Sigma, Tower Research, DE Shaw, etc are from Harvard and MIT with top 400 Putnam placements.

 

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