I am 28 with a highly pedigreed academic undergrad background in Stats and Econ, and an M.S. in Analytics.
I have rotated at my bank through a variety of impactful roles over the last 4.5 years across several lines of business. First an online stock brokerage, then consumer finance acquisitions, then 2.5 years ago I transferred to portfolio management for our commercial bank.
Analyzing the commercial bank was mind-blowing for me. I worked in a small team with a very broad mandate to do special research projects at the sector level, and even dive into loan-level documentation. I don't think such a role even exists at another bank of comparable size. Our team eventually grew and developed into "macro research", but fell apart under the weight of its own gravity as we failed to perform visibly enough under the scrutiny of COVID. The entire team is now being axed.
Now, I am conflicted. I was never "supposed" to be a finance guy. I probably wouldn't fit in culturally at most shops. But after educating myself on banking and financial markets, I feel an almost calling to be an investment / macro / risk analyst. I hoped I could sail into some amazing opportunities after getting lots of recruiter attention in 2019, but instead I got complacent and now I get less than 10% of the LinkedIn views I used to. I've been turbo rejected from 50+ hedge funds, macro teams at banks, and credit analyst positions over the last couple of weeks.
I asked our head of fixed income trading, whom I worked with on a prior interest rate hedging project, for advice. He said to play up my credit experience. This makes a lot of sense, but I never got formal credit training or certifications due to my job family being a "business analyst". He had encouraging words about my background being "interesting", but that gave me flashbacks to prior rejections from REPE, and in one case I blew an interview for a role that helps CFO allocate capital among managers at a fixed income megafund.
This leaves me so conflicted. I feel like Tantalus. My background lures people in with interest, but they ultimately end up hiring someone with an IB background or MBA just to be safe. I seem to have a moderately delusional vision of some chill fund managers taking a flyer on me, because I've seen some encouraging leads, but they seem to mostly just involve confused recruiters not knowing what the hiring manager would actually want.
I want to analyze investments, do valuations, and/or assess (credit risk). I have the brain and the background for this, but the more research I do I wonder if it's rather hopeless in this hyper-competitive industry. Money pressures are minimal for me. Is money management a hobby I should just continue to develop on the side?
I just want to say that you dont need that much "brains" for finance (at least in M&A), so I never understood why this thought is so widespread. You need to be ambitious and tireless but thats it. I literally think that you need more brains for any other kind of STEM job.
Yeah, you won't see me trying to break into M&A. The dream for me would be working with some managers in $1bb sized fund with more informal culture. But that sounds like a pipe dream. Realistically I can't see why they would hire me.
Realistically I agree, you will continuet o have a tough time getting a seat.
MBA is worthless for most people but might be what you need, if you can get into a top program and use that to pipe into formalized buyside recruiting. MBAs are also more amenable to taking in "interesting"/diverse backgrounds like yours.
That's interesting. I guess if I'm really in this for the long haul, graduating MBA at 31 wouldn't be so terrible. I don't think I can get into Stanford though because my career has been so fail (still not at manager level) from switching around so much
Thoughts on going balls deep into seekingalpha and maybe trying to do my own thing? After a year or two I could begin charging for subscribers. I do macro commentary in addition to small caps, special situations, and niche real estate.
Going all-in on SA sounds like an absolutely awful plan and I would not recommend it. If you think it's hard getting traction at funds now, think about how you'd explain taking two years off to be a retail investor shepherd...
Sounds like you've romanticized your own experience a bit...as objectively as you can, what could you step into a new seat and do to add value on day one? That is the critical question. You've gotten interviews which is a lot of the battle, but it sounds like you struggle with convincing someone else what your value add can be.
I "cover" (run a mock/trial newsletter for family since end of 2019) 20 or so stocks and follow many many more. I'm kind of like a one stop shop for small cap / special situations / niche real estate . I could easily hop in to a long short REIT fund. I have spent a lot of time on capitaliq analyzing stocks, reading annual reports, etc. But I don't have a sufficient track record as I was scared out of the market inbetween 2010 and 2018. I lost a lot of money before then not knowing what I was doing. It's only when I began to fully appreciate the perspective of the lender did I regain confidence in myself as an analyst. I have passion for both macroeconomic views and digging into the shittiest of shitstocks on capitalIQ.
I feel like a bit of an anomaly because I have a lot to offer but it's all rough around the edges. Hence the whole generalist dilemma. Where can a generalist find a seat? Or should I try to zone in on REITs / small caps?
I think it might be worthwhile to get an MBA and take advantage of the structured recruiting process they offer for buy side & sell side seats. I would hesitate to go into interviews pitching yourself as a "generalist". There isn't a shortage of people following small cap special sits out there, so you'd need to prove your work exceeds what else someone can pick up on the market. Do you have formalized pitches ready to go when you interview? Have at least two fully baked ideas. Ideally one long and one short. I also think you should be careful characterizing yourself as both a niche stock situation person as well as a macro-focused guy...most people who run small cap strategies couldn't give a shit about macro trading and it also makes you seem unfocused. Best case it sounds like you've had some interesting experience and exposure to a few different types of finance, and now want a more concrete role in the space. Others may disagree, but I think an MBA program might be the best way for you to get there. You should be targeting entry level types of research programs.
I agree with the above comment, M7 MBA sounds like a good bet for you to take advantage of a standardized recruiting process rather than trying to lateral in which is hard without directly relevant experience. Graduating at 31 is not old with an MBA.
You have interesting experience but IMO you are over-selling yourself. Not to be harsh, but from a portfolio manager's view you 1. have an interest in/cover some stocks on your own time for the last year and 2. have some finance experience in various roles, but are getting laid off from portfolio management at a commercial bank. Most $1b funds will not take a shot on someone without directly applicable experience - maybe a small LMM.
Don't see much serious upside in seeking alpha, maybe do it for fun during an MBA but no one will take you seriously trying to raise capital with it.
this has nothing to do with being a generalist
it has to do with you being old and having done something niche / weird in the past. People in finance don’t like niche or weird: they like conventional. There’s one right background for most good roles in their minds.
People in finance are generally pretty much lemmings when it comes to hiring and most other things. They all wear the same ties and hire the same sorts of people - they want to hire people like them (you know, the “good people”). They look for people from an overly narrow set of backgrounds and honestly don’t do a good job in evaluating people that are unconventional. This is what is disadvantaging you.
your best bet is to be the change you wish to see in the world lol. That means if you want these other people to be open minded, you should be open minded too. Another option is to really prioritize prestige as stupid as that sounds since it will prevent you from having this problem in the future.
Jeez, that first bit really hit home. You're spot on. If I want to be the change in this world then I should try to be a one stop shop on seekingalpha. If I work a normal job there's almost no downside / risk, but I could eventually build up a book of subscribers and even leverage it to land at a fund or raise capital.
As far that last bit, I'm too old to have this problem in the future again. Lol. Except if I maybe go to b school, but like I said, I prob can't get into stanford so I wouldn't even be able to prestige whore
Bruh, there are other prestige schools other than Stanford lol
You could do well at/coming out of Chicago Booth with your background. Wharton and Sloan also.
The time, money, and uncertainty make that a really tough sell. I would probably hate everyone at Wharton. MIT / Chicago way too cold.
Wharton is a great school but the a**hole factor seems to be extremely high vs comps. Sloan is good but still a bit nieche-y. Chicago is nicely diversified.
Chicago/Boston may be cold but you'll spend a lot of time inside so it's much less of a problem than at first glance.
Time is a concern. Money, yes, but also depending on your scholarship situation. Plus at places like Chicago and Wharton, you can intern during the year with an investment shop (PE/VC/HF/AM) through a structured program run by the school; some shops will comp you. Great experience that you could also turn into a full-time offer mitigating the time risk as well. Less sure on Sloan here with respect to the investment side.
There is lots of uncertainty everywhere and everything is about tradeoffs. That said, everyone I spoke with (lots of cold emails and phone calls) was willing to speak to a b-school student; it's an advantage that I think is really under-appreciated. People's guard just generally drops when they know you're a student, and doors that would have otherwise been closed tend to open. You also tend to get a lot more benefit of the doubt, especially at a top school. There is ample uncertainty but in a good way, as there is also tons of optionality. Just my experience.
Great perspective. Thanks.
Get your MBA or your CFA. CFA is more doable and much much cheaper, but with opps more limited. Any HF or asset management role love the CFA designation. However, in PE and private credit, not sure I have ever used what I "learned" studying for it. It's basically a safety blanket to put on your resume that says "I'm fairly intelligent and I can fucking grind", which could be the deciding factor in whether or not you get an interview. It brings you a couple clicks toward being the "conventional" candidate. Honestly, the value of an MBA is getting more and more diminished bc everyone has one and the cat is out of the bag that you really don't learn shit while getting an MBA.
Gotcha. I was thinking about just knocking out the CFA level 1
mba > cfa for him
no one at hf cares about cfa, and asset mgmt which needs it as a check-the-box would never look at someone without a standardized background to start
Maybe if OP only targeting NYC firms. 
Depends on where you go and on your background.
Obviously if you want to go to TPG or a megafund, everyone and their mom is going to have an MBA. But more and more mid mkt firms are promoting internally (which makes the most sense by far in the long-term, but makes the recruiting process much more important).
If you really want to ignore the above with regards to getting an MBA, then your realistically best bet is to network your way into a boutique or the likes. I do believe that getting an MBA will be the best way to satisfy your career goals but you will need vigorously network like hell outside of that if you hope to make the switch to a proper IB, regardless of the size. Given your background, you'd do well to leverage any connections you have and if you don't then do what I said and network like hell via linkedin etc or get an MBA. Decide whether this is a serious pursuit for you (per your last sentence) and make a call from there
Reality is that if you want it, your can make it happen but you will need to go above and beyond. If you have a passion for it, you can find a seat.
Network - reach out to smaller firms with strategies that interest you.
Prove you have it - have deliverables ready. Write a research report on something relevant. Show them that you have the knowledge and can add value.
Be prepared - in interviews the bar will be higher for you. Be on top of your shit.
End of the day if you can convey your passion, that you have the skills and knowledge and add value on day one, somebody will recognize that and take the chance.
This is great advice. I could have hustled harder with ready deliverables. At the end of the day I ended up switching industries for my day job, as I believe finding the right fit for me in finance at this point would be near impossible. Meanwhile I've been given the opportunity to lead my family's office, and folks were right, I was not prepared, but I think no one is ever prepared unless they had a great mentor. It's been going okay results-wise, but more importantly I love being in the game.
Sounds like a good outcome for you. Investing is a game of experience, I feel stupid everyday. Good luck bro
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