Simone Biles
Okay, I am probably going to get a lot of shit for this, but, to me, it seems like the decision to withdraw from the Olympics mid-event is just a choke? I don't really understand how quitting on your team, who will likely only ever get to go to one Olympics, is considered brave. There have been tons of discussions on burnout and the impacts on mental and physical health in this forum, but I view this situation as something entirely different. Hoards of normal people have jobs they hate, working long hours with no sense of purpose, and then you have a multi-millionaire athlete, who will likely never have to work a real job a day in their life, crumble under pressure in a clutch moment, and they get called a "hero". Seems a bit backwards.
There have been countless times in history when athletes had to overcome adversity and step up when it mattered most. Tom Brady against the falcons, MJ in the flu game, Kerri Strug on a busted leg, Kobe at the line with a torn achilles, Isiah Thomas in the playoffs after his sister died, Charles Leclerc winning at Baku after his dad died, Curt Schilling in the bloody sock game, Dale Jr. racing after his dad was killed, Tiger Woods at Torrey Pines, etc, etc, etc. Michael Phelps was under just as much, if not more pressure and still performed. To parade around and call yourself the "goat" and then pull out from the competition when its game time is incredibly soft in my opinion.
The media in general is always harping on about "privilege", but seriously, what an incredibly privileged thing to do. Sometimes its about rising to the occasion and shooting your shot regardless of the outcome. This doesn't apply to only sports, but everything. Do you think an MD who walks out of a pitch because he's too nervous will win any mandates? No. Normal people don't have the luxury of quitting when things gets hard. They've got families to feed, bills to pay, and typically don't have a choice. I don't care if you are the most talented person in the world - if you can't perform on the biggest stage when it counts, then maybe you're not a champion.
It is unfortunate that the media hyped her up so much, but I don't really have much sympathy because she played into it as well. Of course she is a human just like the rest of us, but you'd expect an extraordinary person to do extraordinary things
Artur Daloyan severed his Achilles heel in July, still competed to win the gold.
he got the russian juice
It’s also a lie that she’s a GOAT. Her medal count hasn’t come close yet.
Fairly sure that being a GOAT at the Olympics means the following:
- you trained your body, skills and mind for your entire lifetime so that at the height of pressure in the final, when anxiety would overtake normal people, errors could ruin everything, you instead pull out the perfect performance, possibly overtaking a famed opponent.
She is clearly not that. She's just above average. The liberal victory in the culture wars means that America will now celebrate being mediocre, or ''more equal'' as intellectuals would say. No more ''being better'' than the others. Others will be better. Like Russia, or China.
Edit: South Park called Chinese domination btw
She has 27 gold medals between world championships and the olympics...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_medal_leaders_in_women%…
thoughts? Thots?
I want to preface this by saying that I completely agree. But why do you guys think these types of withdrawals/events blaming mental health are happening more often (Biles and Osaka are two that come to mind because of recency bias)? I get it mental health is huge, but people can't use it as a crutch every time they are faced with a challenge.
Personally I think it has something to do with how these athletes are brought up by coaches, trainers, overeager parents, etc. that tell them that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread and when things eventually don't go their way, they fold. Naomi Osaka's withdrawal from Wimbledon may be a different circumstance, but this new generation of athletes I feel like are just so soft.
I think the overall sentiment around events like this is the most disappointing part. If you don't feel ready or right in the head to compete, then pull out - who cares. That's your decision. However, when it becomes something that is to be celebrated even moreso than the actual WINNERS of the respective event, I think it is a huge problem. It's so irresponsible for the media to say things like "Simone Biles is still the best in the world" or "She won the real gold". No, she didn't. She didn't even TRY. It completely discredits the competitors who went out and actually proved that they were the best. What incentive do athletes have to compete if they will be celebrated either way whether they participate or sit on the sidlelines? American athletes have become so soft and entitled its crazy
Was just having a conversation about this with some buddies. I completely agree. The world keeps rewarding individuals who claim "mental health" excuses whenever they don't want to do hard work. Not saying NOBODY has mental health issues, but this world we live in now favors soft people "being so brave" instead of acknowledging actual brave people.
At the end of the day, there's really not much anyone can do about it. The "woke" people are going to keep rewarding softies who make excuses and can't perform when it matters most.
Same argument could be made for overweight/obese people. No one is asking everyone to be six-pack lean, but fatphobia is somehow a real thing. You just can't say fat people are unhealthy or lazy anymore, you're automatically labeled a cis-gender privileged homophobic racist fatphobic pig. It's honestly disgusting but at the end of the day I'd rather be myself than be a "woke" person so it all works out. I've learned it doesn't make sense to argue about politics, religion, e.t.c. because no one's opinion will change and if anything you'll burn bridges with people who get offended too easily (which honestly could be better than keeping them as connections but that's just me).
I think in a general sense this may be fair, but I don't think it applies to Simone Biles. I don't know how you look at her career and say "she wasn't willing to do the hard work." Maybe she isn't the greatest gymnast of all time, but she's clearly one of if not the greatest female gymnasts of the 2010's. She put in the work. She's allowed to take a mental health day once in a while - everyone needs them sometimes. As I said, if they're coming every other day, or every time a challenge looms, that's a different story.
I agree we shouldn't be glorifying her decision not to compete, but she did her own cost/benefit and decided it wasn't worth it for her. It doesn't make her a coward or someone who isn't willing to put in the work or put herself on the line.
Completely agree and you're right, it doesn't necessarily apply to her. She's a very accomplished individual and this is a one-off. What I don't like is that the media and individuals reward people who claim "mental health". Totally hit the nail on the head though -- I just don't like when individuals and the media glorify someone's decision and call it brave regardless of what they actually do. Kinda annoying.
I don't think the issue OP brought up is that she took a mental health day. The issue is that she backed out of a TEAM event in the OLYMPICs and not just a regular old competition. The olympics are the pinnacle of competition and she backed out and is being commended and praised for cheering on her teammates. I was a varsity athlete in college so while I definately don't 100% relate as I was not a world class Olympic level athlete, I had teammates who did make it/will make it to the top level of the sport and they would never back down and would not forgive themselves if they backed out like she did.
I know that I am going to get MS for this but I do not give a shit. There are probably some racial undertones here. The woman makes a decision to step down for health reasons and people are treating her like a villain. When the story broke, I was thinking, okay who cares, next story. I did not realize people would care this much. It kind of reminds me of when Marcus Stroman of the Mets struck out this rookie Nogowski of the Pirates to get out of a jam and then showed some a little emotion, which is what everyone does these days. The emotion that Stroman showed was very retrained compared that of others when they do it but yet Nogowski basically wanted to fight Stroman. There is no logical reason for a site that is like 99.5% guys to be so upset by this. Does anyone here really follow women's gymnastics?
I voiced this same opinion and received a lot of pushback from friends. She's being paid millions of dollars to do gymnastics, which is her work. She almost retired before the Olympics and probably didn't due to sponsorships, etc. but if you decide to continue, better put the best foot forward. "To parade around and call yourself the "goat" and then pull out from the competition when its game time is incredibly soft in my opinion." - understatement of the year
I don't think it's mental health. She's 24 years old, which is the retirement age for female gymnasts. I think she realizes she is not nearly as good as she used to be and decided to step down so she doesn't cost team USA a medal. She should've retired before this Olympics.
This doesn’t make much sense. She is/was still far ahead of everyone and still adding moves no woman could do. This is the first time she had real pressure to perform and some adversity with a couple missteps. Instead of coming out stronger, she crumbled like tissue paper.
She was dominant within the past year - she's definitely not done.
Yeah that's true. Even her earlier scores in the Olympics were strong. I guess the pressure got to her.
1. They're calling her "brave" because she chose to drop out despite knowing that she was going to catch a ton of shit for it, which supposedly will inspire other athletes to look after themselves more. I think there's some merit to that argument
2. Biles has already won multiple Olympic gold medals and enough world championship medals to fill a bathtub, so she can't be that soft
3. Calling herself the GOAT and then doing this is pretty stupid, not gonna lie
As someone else noted, she's aged out, so her competitive career is over now. Let her retire in peace
It is easy to be a front runner. She has essentially never dealt with adversity in competition or had the expectations of victory and needed to come behind. She is now like many athletes that, while among the best to ever do their respective sports/events, were quitters when the going got tough.
How is it "easy" to be the front runner? She was the front runner because she dedicated her entire life, every waking moment of it, most likely, to one goal. I guarantee you she has trained through more stress, injury, and adversity than anyone on these boards has gone through. Any gold medal winning Olympian has. No one becomes the single best at a thing in a world of billions of people without an insane amount of drive and focus.
I mean, you can make this argument for anyone. MJ was soft because he took a year off to play minor league baseball. Guess he didn't have the mental fortitude to keep going when the joy of playing ball wore off, huh?
What a joke of an opinion
she is a pussy, literally
Deleted
If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen
She did
I don't think people realize choking in gymnastics is significantly more dangerous than choking in basketball/football/golf??? You choke in basketball, boohoo, you miss a few shots and maybe the game. If your head isn't in the game in gymnastics and you mistime your flip, you can break your neck. Just google "gymnast paralyzed" to see some shit/read the front page WSJ article...
This. She was clearly disoriented and got lost midair when she only performed a 1.5 twist instead of a 2.5 like she was supposed to. She was lucky she landed on her feet and not her neck. It’s called the “twisties” - where your brain suddenly loses the muscle memory that you developed during training. If this happens in the middle of a skill, all of the things that were completely second nature to you go out the window. It’d be like forgetting how to drive a car while on a highway. And you can’t just overcome it in the moment, but often have to re-train those skills to get them back. So yes, it’s a mental issue but with very real physical manifestations (disconnect between brain and body) and massive safety issues in a sport as dangerous as gymnastics. If she proceeded to compete, she would putting herself at immense risk to get carried out of the arena on a stretcher, paralyzed, etc. and no medal is worth that. It’s sad to read so many people here think otherwise.
i won't pretend to understand what simone is going through, but if kevin durant backed out of the olympics tomorrow and cited self care he would be crucified
Would Kevin Durant break his neck if he misses a free throw
Are you honestly pretending like she was going to break her fucking neck because of the pressure? By this logic, no athlete should be criticized for quitting due to injury risk. Nor should any construction worker or fire fighter or cop or logger or fisherman or anybody with a remotely dangerous job.
Kevin "Slithery Snake" Durant's whole body is a neck....hissening
what if shaun white had backed out?
And Ben Simmons is brave for not risking his mental health by attempting a field goal
She overhyped herself via all these sponsorships etc. She knew she wasn't going to live up to the hype and realized that if she places like 50th or whatever all that money would dry up. Instead, she tried to make this about her, and her mental health.. to keep the sponsorships money rolling in.
Off-topic, but we pedestalize many of these athletes way too much. I'd like to see Simone Biles cure cancer, solve the conflict in the middle east, or do anything worth talking about...
She is stunning and brave, just like Ben Simmons - Isn't that worth talking about?????
Bro how did you go from asset management to IB to an event driven hedge fund so quickly?
Lateral market is hot rn
I kind of agree with you but on the flip side there is video evidence of her losing orientation mid air. That's orders of magnitude riskier than dealing with the pain of a pulled muscle, torn Achilles, or fractured bone. Doing what she does pushes her body to the furthest limits (yes, more than that of most typical professional athletes) and puts herself in incredible danger. No gymnast would ever be allowed to compete if they had hit their head and were suffering from vertigo. Her losing orientation mid air is the same regardless of if it was caused b/c of something mental (her case) or physical (vertigo). Similarly, Connor McGregor was not allowed to continue fighting with a broken shin / ankle / whatever given the elevated risks associated with that.
No, those two things aren't similar at all. First, regardless of your opinions on McGregor, he actually went out there competed in the match, fully knowing the risks associated with doing so. It wasn't until AFTER he broke his leg that the fight was called because the doctors decided that he couldn't fight. The dude put it all on the line, and whether he's washed or not, that's more you can say for Biles. Simone Biles withdrew herself from the competition, and didn't even attempt to compete. I also disagree with equating vertigo with stress and/or mental ailments. Vertigo is something physical, and messes with your depth perception, while you could argue a professional athlete of her caliber should be able to manage her nerves.
This isn’t quite what happened though. She decided to do an easier (for her) routine than originally planned and went to the judges and was told she wouldn’t get credit for difficulty when she didn’t actually attempt to do the difficult portions of the routine. There is a lot that has been said after the fact that doesn’t really jive with what happened in the moment (including not pulling out until after the judges made their decision) and a lot of the other statements she has made.
This is what gymnasts refer to as “getting lost”, which basically means that you have no concept of your body position while airborne. Gymnasts (especially at this level) know exactly where they are while airborne, which allows them to speed up (or slow down) to land properly. Without that sense of awareness they would essentially be guessing as to when they’re supposed to land. If that’s what’s happening here it makes complete sense why she would be hesitant to compete.
That said, it’s strange at best to celebrate the above. It really should just be treated like any other injury. Like someone else already mentioned, you wouldn’t call someone a hero for withdrawing with a torn ACL, but I guess the Olympic media coverage has an issue with calling something an injury that they can’t personally see.
What a fucking loser. Weak sauce that robbed someone more deserving of the team spot. If she's going to come all the way here just to back out DURING the competition she shouldn't have come at all.
Idc what anyone says, she quit. End of story. The olympics is a place where you check your ego at the door and compete for your country.
If you read what her statement was after the fact, she NEVER ONCE mentioned the fact that she had an obligation to her country. If she can’t handle the pressure, she should have let someone else compete in her spot from the get go.
This has nothing to do with her ability as a gymnast. Everyone can agree she’s one of the greatest if not the GOAT in her respective sport and gender. But what did the other ‘greats’ do when they had adversity? They either lost, or they overcame it and won. She is the only one who tried to avoid an unfavourable outcome by quitting hallway.
I’m not necessarily a gymnastics fan but there are 2 memorable events in which olympic gymnasts persevered through significant adversity and yet still gave the best performance they could- Kerri Stug (1996 Olympics) and Paul Hamm (2004 Olympics)
Kerri Stug broke her ankle and still finished while quite literally on one leg to secure gold.
Paul Hamm landed on the judges table after this third rotation, which is basically the worst you can get in terms of dropping your score. He then came back with one of the greatest finishes in history after being in 12th place.
Oh, and as one of the commenters at the top said, don’t even get me STARTED on other all-time great team athletes and how they overcame injuries and personal situations to win for their team, let alone their country.
If Simone Biles genuinely felt that she couldn’t face the pressure, she should have finished and lost. Or else she shouldn’t have gotten on the plane to Tokyo in the first place. It doesn’t even matter that she talked herself about how she is the greatest of all time and how she deserves her respect- she shouldn’t have taken an opportunity away from another American who wouldn’t have quit on her teammates and her country. I don’t know if she’s competing in her individual events (although I doubt she will), but if she does after what she just pulled, she loses all respect.
FYI don’t forget people in her camp tried telling the media she had a physical injury to her ankle right after yet she played the mental health card when it was clear she didn’t have an injury
Also it’s laughable that the media is trying to spin this as ‘she’s so courageous’ and ‘she deserves a real gold medal’ for quitting.
Imagine the flack Lebron James would get if he sat out a USA vs. Spain Olympic Finals game (not injured, just because of the pressure) and the US lost. What would be the reaction to that? Insert significant sports figure in any sport and it would be the same. He would be called a quitter and someone who left his team out to dry.
There would never ever be tolerance for a quitter without a legitimate reason, let alone praise.
xxx
This. Scottie Pippen is still referred to as a quitter and a player who deserted his teammates after a stupid ass decision to sit out for a few seconds of a game his team still ended up winning. The criticism that would amass on athletes like Lebron or Tom Brady if they pulled a stunt like this would be colossal. It would forever tarnish their legacies.
We can only wait and see what happens with Biles, but with the media stumbling over themselves to cover for her after the whole circus (GOAT unitard, reporting it as a physical injury before trying to turn a "she was worried she was going to fail" into a mental health crisis), I imagine this will be forever spun as some kind of courageous and selfless act that will only encourage young athletes to act in similarly selfish ways going forward. Not good.
Thank you for this post! I can't figure out why everyone I've spoken with can't understand what Simone did. Everyone thinks I'm a jerk lol.
While she has mental health issues, she was completely out of line by deciding to compete before the Olympics. She made a big mistake in going to Tokyo. She should take responsibility for this mistake. Instead, she shows a lack of responsibility and maturity to own up to this mistake. What's more, no one is acknowledging that!
I'm not saying we should villainize Simone, we should all love her and look out for her, but we can't just forget about the fact that she screwed up.
All this talk about her getting the real Gold or being a hero...I'd back that up if she did that before the competition.
Analyst: "Hey, I told you I'd build this model. I got halfway through, but decided to put it down because I'm feeling kind of blue."
VP/Associate: "It's okay. I'm really proud of you being able to fully acknowledge your emotions while ignoring the fact that you broke a commitment. It's really something we're all proud of. Even Jamie Dimon heard about this. He's going to praise your bravery on Twitter this afternoon!"
Comparing Simone, an Olympic gymnast that performs skills more difficult than any other female gymnast ever has, pulling out of an event bc she couldn’t safely compete (risking her own life) in one of the most dangerous sports, to an investment banking analyst doing a model is why I hate this site
SIMP alert.
Most of these responses are completely undignified. Simone Biles won a world championship with kidney stones and a national championship with broken toes in both feet. She knows how to endure through adversity and is perfectly qualified enough as an athlete to know whether she can compete. She made a judgment that she couldn't compete safely. Frankly, I agree; she seemed off during her floor routine and her practices, and gymnastics is a dangerous enough sport that she could easily die if she messed up badly enough.
Another point that people don't mention is that Simone is trying to maximize her performance across ALL events, not just the team event. She knew that the team would get on the podium regardless, so if you know your body needs a rest, why not take it during the team event and wait until Sunday, August 1st to get back in shape and rest? She's clearly economizing to maximize the number of medals she wins by taking a strategic rest. She knew she didn't have enough in her to do all of it, so why not take a medal from the team event and do your best on the subsequent individuals?
To be honest, I do not understand why this topic is so important to WSO. People quite something all the time and no one say much of anything. It happens in sports and in the corporate work place and no one says anything here. The lady says she has mental health issues. Since when is anyone here qualified to judge her issues. It is totally bizarre that WSO has a strong interest in Simon Biles decision to stop competing. There has probably never been a topic on WSO about women's gymnastics until now.
Not even close to a fair comparison, as this isn't any random athlete or Joe Blow analyst. This would be like Ken Moelis or Frank Quattrone wearing a custom made suit that said "Biggest Swinging Dick" across the back and with the outline of a huge veiny triumphant boner embroidered into the lapels, and when the time comes to close the biggest deal of the decade and all of their team members are counting on them, they just say "actually, I have an ankle injury, can't make the meeting... I mean, no, fuck it, I'm just not feeling it... too much pressure on this one, boys... I mean, no, sorry, I need a mental health day. But I'm still the Biggest Swinging Dick, and Bloomberg and FT need to recognize that and applaud me for the decision."
You identify yourself as the GOAT, you loudly proclaim your status as the GOAT, you reap the benefits and rewards of being the GOAT, but then you quit when someone actually makes you perform as the GOAT--I'm sorry, you deserve to take some heat.
Are you like some avid follower of women's gymnastics? Why do you care so much? My guess is that almost no one on this site gives a shit about women's gymnastics until now. Suddenly you found an interest in womens' gymnastics, which is to criticize Simon Biles.
Some good arguments but the stuff Simone is doing could leave her paralyzed if she is not careful. It’s a totally different risk profile than other examples mentioned. That‘s not an exaggeration. She also has suffered serious abuse at the hands of a Nasser and tried to take on that cause as well which may have put her over the edge.
No one on this forum can ever do what she does, (and no, being some crew team dildo at Dartmouth doesn’t equate) so just remember that.
You bring up another point worth mentioning, which is Nassar. To those saying Simone should have retired if she could no longer handle the pressure, Simone is the only remaining active elite gymnast that was a (known) sexual abuse victim of Nassar. USA Gymnastics still has a longgg way to go for accountability and protecting its athletes. Simone has explicitly stated she feels partially obligated to her fellow elite gymnasts to not retire because it holds USAG more accountable for its past crimes rather than allowing them to sweep it under the rug and not make meaningful change.
I was just about to comment about her staying on the team because she doesn’t want USA gymnastics to sweep the situation under the rug. The sad thing is Nassar isn’t the first abusive US olympics gymnastics coach. Read up on Bela Karolyi (who coached Nadia Comancei, the first gymnast to score a perfect 10 at the olympics, when she was 14). This guy would slap the gymnasts, denied them of food and water to the point that they drank toilet water and ate toothpaste. So I understand why Simone wants USA gymnastics to be held accountable.
The twisties in gymnastics are no joke. You’re 10 feet in the air and have no idea which way is down and if you’re going to land on your feet or your head. You can’t compare it to jumping of a 10ft cliff into the ocean. Instead, go stand on an 8 foot ledge and start spinning and have a friend push you off. It’s a real tough mental block to get over and there’s been a number of Olympic level gymnastics who have become paralyzed (Julissa Gomez, Sang Lang, Adriana Duffy,), including quadriplegia (Elena Mukhina). I wouldn’t compare it to a mental block that a runner or rower might face where even if a lot goes wrong, they will still be able to walk.
I think Biles is getting a lot of undue criticism because people are comparing her sport to other fundamentally different sports or to investment banking. I can't argue with those that say she "choked". But if she had continued on she easily could have been severely injured. I'm hoping she gets gold medals in her remaining 4 events (as of now) and this becomes a comeback story.
Exactly, not being 100% mentally there in golf means you shoot a terrible score and it's embarrassing. Not being 100% mentally there in gymnastics could mean serious injury or worse. There's levels and it's telling that she stopped competing after she "lost herself in the air" during the Vault. Hopefully she rebounds.
The optics of quitting on your team (for whatever the reason) and then returning to win individual medals a few days later is... really not good. The media might try to spin it, but I don't see people championing that as a comeback story. Americans love winners, but they tend to hate people who quit on their teams.
She didn’t have it that day. Had she continued she could have been severely injured and the team may not have medaled.
1.) She isn't brave for not continuing, that narrative needs to stop
2.) She doesn't deserve to be criticized for pulling out, only she knows what's going on in her head
3.) She is a gymnastics legend regardless of the results here, but I hope she can bounce back and get another gold medal or two
Thank you for an intelligent post.
I just use this as further proof that the Olympics are losing their allure fast. Elite athletes are valuing their mood swings more than a gold medal for their nation. And given how insanely unprofitable this, and recent, olympic projects have been, I don’t see much justification for their hype anymore
True true
As someone who knows several burnt out athletes, I feel bad for them. Too much pressure for huge events in their life. They try so hard and get so far and in the end it usually doesn't matter. If I have kids they'll only do sports so they don't get fat or anti-social
She did have an unfair amount of pressure put on her by shitlib media (to be fair she did kind of court it a little). However, pulling out of the Olympics like she did is extremely weak. She quit, straight up.
Think of the example this sets for young women athletes. What's the trope about women - they're weak, whiny, and entitled. Oh it's my mental health. Bullshit. Her ego was bruised because she couldn't live up to the hype. Simple as that.
It’s not unfair. She bathed in the adulation and hype of being the best ever and overcoming all the super unlimited obstacles put in her way by all those haters.
Holy fucking shit. Wow.
🤡🌎
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