I’ll be starting my sophomore year soon (at a target) and wanted to start planning for internships next summer. (Didn’t do anything this summer).
I’ve read a lot of threads about how getting <abbr><abbr title="front office">FO</abbr></abbr> roles at <abbr><abbr title="bulge brackets">BBs</abbr></abbr> in one’s sophomore summer is extremely unlikely, so I was wondering whether middle office roles at <abbr><abbr title="bulge brackets">BBs</abbr></abbr> (risk management?) would be relatively easier and realistic for a sophomore to get. What about in some of the “smaller” banks like HSBC, ABN AMRO, <abbr><abbr title="Societe Generale">Soc Gen</abbr></abbr> etc? And what about positions outside the US, say Hong Kong and Singapore? (some of the <abbr><abbr title="bulge brackets">BBs</abbr></abbr> come to my school specifically to recruit for Asia positions, and I’m willing to go abroad) Are any of these options more realistic for a sophomore than <abbr><abbr title="front office">FO</abbr></abbr> <abbr><abbr title="bulge bracket">BB</abbr></abbr> roles or are they just as hard to get?
Basically, I was wondering what type of sophomore year work experience successful candidates in junior year <abbr><abbr title="summer analyst intern">SA</abbr></abbr> recruiting have. (I’m a math/finance double major, and have on –campus leadership positions in business/finance clubs, and am interested in S&T)
Stern only lets you do on campus recruiting once for summer internships (in your junior year) so this means the only option you have to apply for these positions is through the company's website. So gauging the chances of getting an internship based on just applying on the website, it's pretty unlikely unless your resume REALLY stands out. Even in less desirable non-FO positions, these usually still go to juniors (those of average/mediocre caliber).
And no, Hong Kong recruiting is pretty competitive at Stern because of the high number of Asians. These mostly go to juniors also.
Asia is not necessarily an easier place to land a gig - not in this climate.
More importantly, I think you would be better off if you did more extensive research on the regions/roles you're keen on - do NOT assume the "smaller" banks necessarily have a smaller presence in Asia. BofA, for instance, has a very small presence - notwithstanding the ML franchise - in Asia (both HK and SG) relative to its other BB counterparts, especially in IB and S&T.
If getting an IB internship as a sophomore is so unlikely, then how do you get the relevant experience necessary when you apply as a junior?
So the only realistic option for a sophomore would be boutiques, smaller hedge funds etc and corp fin gigs? If that is the case, what type of work experience should I try getting that is most relevant to S&T? how about some of the trading internships at some prop shops, or are they reserved mostly for juniors too?
You work at a boutique or smaller firm doing relevant work but not necessarily with a structured intern program. It's pretty difficult for sophomores to get into structured internship programs (the 10 week ones) for the most part. You usually have to either be connected, a genius, or an URM.
Sorry, I can't help you more with the trading questions, it's not something I ever apply for.
any finance experience is your best bet. Your best bet is applying to URM programs like SEO & INROADS.
Just get an internship at a boutique bank, small asset manager, or just any smaller investment firm, and do something that is relevant in someway to what you want to do.
Or you can go for one of those PWM positions at a BB, there were always plenty, not sure about now, and they don't mind fresh/soph as long as you appear competent and are willing commit a decent amount of time, then when the next summer comes, try to switch to be an SA in another divsion or something.
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I apologize for the trivial question, but what is URM? And PWM = private wealth management? Thanks.
though it also includes asians, which is bullshit.
and yes, pwm is private wealth management
as for what to do as a sophomore, it's easiest to network. getting FO at a BB or top boutique will be very difficult. Just shoot for something relevent, but don't underestimate the value of a brand name
How valuable the experience would be if interning with a reputable insurance company? i.e. underwriting, risk management etc.
hiit can i PM u with a few questions?
Does anyone know what type of soph work experience (in general) do succesful SA candidates have? Does it have to be something quantitatively inclined?
I'll be in the same position as you next year. I am currently interning at a boutique firm and plan to do so again next year (different firm, hopefully M&A group)
The thing about my situation is, I'm an international student (although I went to high school in the US and my family lives here), and I doubt many boutiques and many of the smaller firms would want to hire foreign nationals, regardless of their credentials. My biggest fear is not having any work experience at all once SA recruiting begins in junior year. I don't know how trying to get boutique experience is going to work out for me......
Why would that be a problem? For international students, all they have to do is sign a form that you set up together with an adviser at college, basically stating how it's going to support your study, and how the employer will give "feedback". There's basically no effort involved on their part. This is how it works at my college, anyway, but I'm hoping it's similar for you.
I don't think you should sweat too much over this. While having some experience obviously helps, let's not forget your CV will be screened by different folks who have different preferences. Needless to say, the room for subjectivity is rather massive.
In that regard, it wouldn't be of much use if you ended up being a clerk at a financial firm tasked with administrative duties just so as to beef up your CV for BB S&T recruiting. You're better off finding something which is relevant and you would enjoy.
What I've heard is that smaller firms, in general, are reluctant to hire internationals because of the amount of paperwork they have to deal with in sponsoring them for a visa. Also, a lot of the job postings for boutiques and some of the other smaller firms say that only US Citizens will be considered. As far as I know, internationals from my school who got internships got them only at BBs, who didn't have any issue with dealing with extra paperwork.
This may be different for FT, depending on your situation (e.g. major), but there is really no paperwork involved for internships. Again, this is true for my school, but you should definitely check with yours if it's any different.
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