It's 10 PM. Someone writes a post about how insider trading should be legal, how people say stupid things about the CFAs, or how Harvard is going to take over the world. It really irritates you, and you want to respond.
What do you do?
1.) Respond with a snarky comment.
2.) Close your web browser and bang your head against the wall.
3.) Resist the temptation and find a smart thread to post in, instead.
All too often, my response has been (1)- to post some snarky response that starts a huge debate. However, when you think about it, that sends the wrong signal, especially for front-page content.
You may not know this, but front page bloggers are paid partly by how many responses they get. That's a pretty reasonable policy, but the net effect is to encourage WSO bloggers to write more obnoxious posts to attract the most responses, rather than ask tough questions or post stuff that makes us think.
We need to raise the level of discourse on WSO. From now until Christmas, I pledge to, instead of taking option (1), to take option (3). Every time I see something on the front page that leaves me feeling irritated, that I feel is ridiculous, that I feel lowers the level of discourse on WSO, instead of responding to THAT thread, I'll find an interesting thread to respond to.
Last week, Deepak Malhotra, HBS Professor (and Big Ten Northwestern alumn), posted a brilliant video about negotiating offers. I spent over an hour watching that video- it was worth every moment. Yet instead of responding to that thread, and encouraging more of them, I responded to "Sh** people say to CFA candidates".
If you think about it, what really helps us grow as individuals is more videos from guys like Deepak Malhotra, more nuanced questions and discussions- rather than people who ask visceral questions. Unfortunately, the only way to do that is to respond to higher quality posts.
So, will you join me?
This Christmas, let's give ourselves the gift of better discourse on WSO. Take the pledge- every time you see a thread asking a ridiculous question on WSO, resist posting in it, and respond to a smart thread instead.
Count me in. I've been on this trail for a while. Way too much junk on here and too many idiots post on topics they have no knowledge over, just take a look at any political thread.
Let's be clear- the problem is not WSO- there way too much junk on the web in general. There is also a lot of good content on here that goes overlooked, and I'm probably as good a person as any to blame for that.
On some level, this is the de-facto site for young people in finance. And the decisions we make about what to read influences the content here. And it's a high quality site.
We're all market participants here on WSO, and what we really need is content that keeps our minds plastic- that discourages negative resistance and encourages critical thinking. Part of that means our responsibility as readers to reverse-engineer some of the journalism tricks and encourage better insight.
I say let's start with WSO because there's so much opportunity here. We're a small enough group that we can decide collectively as readers to support higher-quality content here, and because the marginal value of that content is so much higher here than it would be elsewhere. Hopefully that's going to attract more smart people and could eventually start a trend on the other finance sites (EG: businessinsider, maybe dealbreaker?)
Look, this post is going to encourage its own negative resistance. Who is a guy who drives a rusty honda and brags about thriftiness to suggest how people respond to posts? But at the end of the day, the most constructive response isn't to post a snarky remark- it's not to close your browser, either. It's to find a better post, post in that, say thank you, and help carve out an even bigger place for higher-level posts.
I try to follow this pledge (although I'm not always successful).
However, I'm calling bait and switch here. How in the world did this post not have anything to do about saving money?
For those looking for the best posts on this site, look here:
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/highest-ranked-discussions
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/most_commented
First off, thank you for this Illini. A quick correction, about 95% of the front page bloggers write for free...only a small fraction of the bloggers that have been with us for years get paid, and even then the comment bonus they get doenst move the needle that much (it is more in place if a post really generate a lot of discussion and/or goes viral).
I think this time of year we usually have a similar request (usually in the form of a complaint) from the more senior posters on here given the influx of content and new users from college.
What hasnt helped is in the past 6-9 months we have been trying to get more interesting content onto the home page...we tried to create too many home page editorial spots (expand to fast) and that led to a drop in the quality hitting the front page. That was my fault.
We have since pulled back and are putting in more controls before giving any writers privilege to the home page, but the variance in quality has still been obvious. We still try to get the best discussions (and video like you saw with Deepak) to the home page as fast as possible, but it also takes a lot of work to constantly 1) monitor discussions, 2) moderate the forums 3) interview new writers 4) manage campus reps 5) manage web devel initiatives 6) manage events & planning WSO conference and 7) countless other things....luckily we have a community that is so supportive that allows us to do what we do or we'd be screwed.
There are a ton of interns that are helping us out not only on the blogging side but on the SEO side and making sure our best content gets out there...spreading the word across campuses, etc.
All I'd ask is for some patience as we continue to improve the lineup of bloggers that are getting home page slots.
I join you in your pledge to try and get the better content to the top of the page faster and to remove the more mediocre content off the front page faster.
Thanks, Patrick
ps - If you are sick of the home page, we always have the highest ranked content from the past week, month, year and all time right here:
//www.wallstreetoasis.com/highest-ranked-discussions/week
The problem is half the time I'm on WSO because I'm brain dead and don't want to think about anything. Having said that, I'm not going to waste my time commenting on stupid posts either, although I personally like some of the "legalize insider trading" posts - if people respond intelligently instead of being snarky, some of those can become interesting discussions.
This is great IlliniProgrammer. I feel like I've been fighting this battle for six years!
I've been doing front page stuff for the last six months or so.
Generally, I try to avoid posting mindless things or "controversial" things to get views and comments. I try, for the most part, to keep the content of my posts fairly serious to keep the level of discourse high. It's also a bit more enjoyable to write something thoughtful than to throw a bunch of crap against a wall and see what sticks.
I would ask, if there are things that don't get enough coverage on the front page, let me know. I won't write about everything, but it's always helpful to have a list of new topics to cover. Some weeks, there just isn't that much noteworthy news to cover, so if there's anything you guys want to hear more about, let me know and I can create content centered around it for the front page.
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/48%C3%B7293
Appreciate the ideas. Not sure I'm the best guy to write critiques on financial theories, but I'd love to take a crack at some of the other ideas on your list.
I'd also add that I do not understand the shit that people give sales positions. If anything, they sound like the best gigs on Wall Street by far. Talking to people about ideas and schmoozing clients > spending 20 hours straight on a model any day of the week. Sales seems surprisingly tough to break into though, at least as far as I've found it.
So to continue, thanks IP for the post, agree with a lot of what you said and will also take the pledge to continually strive to improve the quality of homepage content, it's part of my job :)
you'll love this one IP: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/monte-carlo-simulation-stochastic-c… (going live at 11am tomorrow)
For the negotating topic by Deepak Malhotra
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/how-to-negotiate-your-job-offer-pro…
I am taking the pledge. Thanks to IlliniProgrammer for addressing this....
I would like to say that I love both the snarkiness and the intelligence on this site, and I think that is what makes it so special. I am seriously thankful every day that I can browse WSO, just because I enjoy the community.
That being said, I do think there have been some ridiculous posts lately, and I do think there are certain people who troll a little too hard... I'm honestly just happy to see certain posters in this thread, and I have hope that this site can balance itself out a little better.
I'm sure we're all wondering who are the two paid bloggers. I'm guessing Edmundo is one. But I wonder who's the other...Financier4Hire?
lol. i really hope you don't take the pledge. your stuff is gold.
Haha, the only pledge I'm taking is the one where I promise to not mind if in two years when someone asks IP his alma mater he says Pton without even batting an eyelash!
Holy shit, I am SOOOOO on board with this.
You guys may not realize this, but I'm looking for monkey shit way more often than I'm looking for silver bananas. I'm a paid blogger here (not that I don't love you guys just as much, lol) and I would much rather know what's wasting your time than what's adding value. Not that the good stuff isn't important - it is. But if I completely whiff on a pitch I count on you guys to let me know that right away.
My goals when I write a post are:
You guys aren't stupid, and you can tell when I'm phoning it in. Please don't hesitate to throw the shit when I produce crap. If you disagree with what I'm saying, I'd like to think that you pause and think about why you disagree for a moment before you throw the shit, but if I still deserve it - throw it.
I have no control over what makes it to the home page, but I do have control over my stuff, and the relationship we've built over the years is something I value greatly. Let me know if I'm fucking it up.
I used to write a few posts with the intent of being controversial and get comments, but I think I'm past that now. Patrick and I were actually talking that the best posts don't necessarily have the most comments, like the one I did on cowpaths this week. Definitely wasn't dialing it in on that one! And I was surprised that my heavy metal post (not even finance related!) Got as many comments as it did.
IP, I henceforth take you up on your pledge. I, ITF, do herefore set forth my hand.
ITF
Given that super high level math is just as incomprehensible as how to live inside a whale, I would submit that it's at least consistent! Personally I would have no idea how to deal with the labyrinth of guts and organs, not to mention all the blubber.
Heck, Plato managed to prove 2500 years ago that time has a beginning, and Aquinas proved that there's something science can't explain that set the universe into motion. We don't really have an answer on this, and the people who believe in a guy with a huge white beard and a 450 foot long wooden boat that the dinosaurs couldn't fit inside of are kooks, but it's impossible to prove them wrong.
Also, as the resident Deist on the board, I do get to fire back against Carlin's snarky comment:
Atheism: The belief that there was nothing, that nothing ever happened to nothing, and then nothing magically happened to create existence, and that everything has a perfectly rational explanation, except all those religious kooks.
Right. Makes perfect sense.
You're better than this.
Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof, and the burden of proof lies upon those who would believe such things - especially when they hope to influence public and education policy to the point of requiring an alternate mythology to the proven scientific fact of evolution. See also: Russell's teapot.
If it turns out that there is a God, I don't think that he's evil. But the worst that you can say about him is that basically he's an underachiever.
Science can explain everything except its own existence and that of the universe. Way to go science, way to think it through. You can't see your own face without the use of a mirror. You can't hide your lying eyes, and your smile is a thin disguise. Although I have figured out that the Spaghetti man lives inside the teapot. Explains why my pasta tasted a little funny the other day.
Eddie, people are free to believe whatever the heck they want. Dude just let it go.
In typical WSO fashion, a thread has shifted entirely from the original purpose and has taken a life of its own. Especially hilarious given the original point of the post.
I just can't believe that people are calling spaghetti monstrous, that's all. Spaghetti is delicious. Sure, it may not exactly be the king of the pack when it comes to cylindrical pastas, where some might prefer the likes of a finer pasta like a capellini or vermicelli versus the ribbon-like figure of a fettucini or a taglierini. But I don't see how one can reasonably argue that there's anything monstrous at all about water and flour.
IP, of course I agree in principle. But to my knowledge Pastafarians don't go on the rampage over graven images of the almighty FSM, they don't sue the Department of Education for equal representation in history and biology textbooks, and they don't fly planes into buildings. These are the pastimes of Abrahamic fundamentalists.
Imagine 2,000 years from now holy wars being fought over disparate interpretations of the Windows 98 source code or the Star Wars canon. Ridiculous? No more ridiculous than 21st century adherence to the fearful scribbling of Bronze Age tribesmen who thought the earth was flat.
It would be one thing if such beliefs were harmless, but clearly they are not.
You're right, this isn't the time or place. Consider it let go.
Imagine there's no pasta It's easy if you try No sauce above us Below us oh so dry Imagine all the meatballs Having gone astray Yoohoo-ooh
I'll just say this, people always look for reasons to subdue and kill each other. The Nazi's and the Soviets were basically agnostic and religiously devoid, yet they created some of the worst associates known to man. Pol Pot wasn't an Islamic Fundamentalist.
And back on topic. What the hell is wrong with Gamo's and Breitlings?
Is it okay to wear my John Lobb shoes to an interview?
Thx! -BT
Lobb, yummy
Looks like The Consumerism Brothers are in da house! REPRESENT.
I think IP is spot on - people have a right to be as irrational as they want. They have a right to believe that people can live comfortably inside a whale, and they have a right to spend two thousand dollars on shoes that are just going to be ruined when the Spaghetti man pours pasta sauce all over them.
People also have the right to think that humans, who are continually proven wrong and who have a finite knowledge, know it all. I'd rather put my faith in a flying marshmallow than the omnipotent power of human beings.
And quality shoes last a lifetime. Don't hate.
Hate? Who said a single word about hate? I adore expensive cosmetics, especially ones that I can keep using over and over for decades until my limbs finally pop off. And the more vintage my cosmetics get, the more hipster I become. It's win-win! The other day I purchased a $5000 man-purse and carry it around everywhere. I keep a toaster in it. And some screwdrivers as well. The other day I thought I heard the sound of a slight tear, but I knew that wasn't possible. With the money I paid for it, I knew it was built to last!
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